"-exray" wrote in message
...
OH YEAH wrote:


WHAT? It appears you're quoting ME in your replies. This thread started
with someone talking about e-mails "appearing" to be from E-Bay - being
received. Others responded with how to perhaps deal with it. I jumped in
to say that if one gets a suspicious e-mail THOUGHT to be from E-Bay,
they send it to ..... Someone suggested that - that doesn't
work, that a blank e-mail would get the same reply. I proved that wrong
and posted the result of doing just that. I offered others to try it for
themselves.

Whoa, I did repeat said test and yes they have changed the format. As Syl
said, now it apparently only accepts forwarded mail. Well, I blanked out
a forward message and sent it Sunday afternoon. I got the initial canned
response immediately and the canned "answer" came thru yesterday evening.

Guess what. They said it wasn't from them. Go figure.

I wonder if anybody has received one that said is WAS FROM EBAY? I don't
think so. The point I was trying to disprove was your assertion that they
will inspect these requests and inform you of the results as if some of
these emails were valid. In a way they do just that but I don't think
there's as much inspection going on as simply hitting the canned "its not
us" button.

Don't get me wrong, I have no gripe with ebay and have a combined feedback
rating of 800 or so. By suggesting that some of these emails merit
inspection might lead one to think that some requests for acct info are
legit which is simply not the case.

-BillM

Bill,

"I" am not trying to argue with you. The fact they just changed formats,
well.... if they did it again today, it would still make fools of us both
for arguing about what "was". Yes, when I tried it I got the response
shown, which did prove you wrong - TO A POINT - but not entirely. It still
doesn't mean they do "scrutinize" ALL e-mails. Maybe some. I will agree, to
a point it is canned. . I'm not saying you are completely wrong or I'm
completely correct.. The system isn't the greatest, we can both agree on
that. But it is all they offer! So, we deal with it.

But what I think is even more hilarious is my statement to you of replying
to the spoof sender to see their response, and someone else feels I'd be
harassing them by doing so - were it to be done. Man, I laughed my ass off
on that.

TRM

"OH YEAH" a écrit dans le message

But what I think is even more hilarious is my statement to you of replying
to the spoof sender to see their response, and someone else feels I'd be
harassing them by doing so - were it to be done. Man, I laughed my ass off
on that.

That would be our village idiot...

Syl

"Syl's Old Radioz" wrote in message
...
"OH YEAH" a écrit dans le message

But what I think is even more hilarious is my statement to you of
replying
to the spoof sender to see their response, and someone else feels I'd be
harassing them by doing so - were it to be done. Man, I laughed my ass
off
on that.

That would be our village idiot...

Syl



Well, whoever it was, it sure was funny!!!!!!!!

TRM

OH YEAH wrote:

shown, which did prove you wrong - TO A POINT - but not entirely. It still
doesn't mean they do "scrutinize" ALL e-mails. Maybe some. I will agree, to
a point it is canned. . I'm not saying you are completely wrong or I'm
completely correct.. The system isn't the greatest, we can both agree on
that. But it is all they offer! So, we deal with it.

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.
And they seem to do a good job of that. I wonder what kind of SWAT team
they have that can get a page pulled on a server in Romania within
hours? Maybe we should send THEM after Osama!

Its still disingenuous and misleading for me, you, them or anybody else
to suggest that the answer might be anything other "its not from us".
Next thing ya know the phishers will start sending out bogus replies
saying "yes, that was us, please log in and give us your info".

Some people have a hard time understanding the level of fraud that
exists on the internet. I knew a lady on another forum who got bitten
TWICE with those phony Microsoft emails that told you to delete such and
such file. When she got chastised for doing it the second time her
response was "Why would Microsoft send me phony emails?". She just
didn't get it. I guess ebay has an overdose of that mentality around
which they have to tailor their procedures.

-Bill

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

OH YEAH wrote:

shown, which did prove you wrong - TO A POINT - but not entirely. It still
doesn't mean they do "scrutinize" ALL e-mails. Maybe some. I will agree, to
a point it is canned. . I'm not saying you are completely wrong or I'm
completely correct.. The system isn't the greatest, we can both agree on
that. But it is all they offer! So, we deal with it.

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.

Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

And they seem to do a good job of that. I wonder what kind of SWAT team
they have that can get a page pulled on a server in Romania within
hours? Maybe we should send THEM after Osama!

OTOH there are sites stateside and off shore where catching some one
is like pulling teeth or they just move to the server setting beside
the one they were using.


Its still disingenuous and misleading for me, you, them or anybody else
to suggest that the answer might be anything other "its not from us".
Next thing ya know the phishers will start sending out bogus replies
saying "yes, that was us, please log in and give us your info".

Some people have a hard time understanding the level of fraud that

It's more than some people. A recent survey turned up less than 25%
of the users on the net have a firewall. I'd guess it's probably
around 15%. Most have the mentality that it won't happen to me and I
only open attachments from friends and they'd never send me a virus.
They don't realize most viruses come from someone who had them in
their address book.

exists on the internet. I knew a lady on another forum who got bitten
TWICE with those phony Microsoft emails that told you to delete such and
such file. When she got chastised for doing it the second time her
response was "Why would Microsoft send me phony emails?". She just
didn't get it. I guess ebay has an overdose of that mentality around
which they have to tailor their procedures.

I'm not going to say the average user, but rather most users are
completely clueless about computers, the Internet, viruses and scams.
They have to be or I wouldn't be winning some lottery or another at
least 4 or 5 times a week and being contacted by some guys widow, his
estate's law firm, or some government official to get help moving many
millions of dollars out of their country.

When I was in Grad School I taught 5 classes at the university level
as a GA. They were "The Introduction to Computer Science". I had 195
students and their level of computer literacy was scary. I had one
genius who picked up another students floppy disk which had her home
work on it. He turned it in as his own without ever even changing the
name. Of course he claimed it was an accident and the disks must have
gotten mixed up, but as he sat between me and my boss (head of the
department) I've never seen a kid sweat that much. We should have put
a drip pan under him.

Although that was in 91, things haven't changed all that much.
Computer science was involved in virtually every class at that point.

One other note. I wrote a rather elaborate database search program
that from the user end was strictly a "click on what you wanted to do
and "fill-in-the-blanks". Still, it took days to train 6 people how
to use it and it was the same questions, over and over for a full
week. The next year I had a "trainer" to teach the same people. :-))

People tend to fall into three camps. Those who have at least an idea
as to what is going on, those who place blind faith in the computer's
ability to do what ever with out fault, and those who are intimidated
by them.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

-Bill

Roger wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.


Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

"Not really"? Are we disagreeing about something?


OTOH there are sites stateside and off shore where catching some one
is like pulling teeth or they just move to the server setting beside
the one they were using.

They may move on, most spammers do, and often its a case of hijacking a
server so he as an individual is gone already. What amazes me is how
fast these Romanian (not to pick on Romanians in particular but you get
the gist) websites get closed down. ebay obviously carries some clout.
Maybe they call Donald Rumsfeld first and have him threaten to come
over and look for WMDs. That can get nasty.


I'm not going to say the average user, but rather most users are
completely clueless about computers, the Internet, viruses and scams.

Roger, we are preaching to the choir. These spam and fraud issues are
almost daily subjects (ad nauseum) on any internet forum such as this
one. Hell, these scams get reported on the evening network news. You'd
have to live in a cave...seems that quite a few people do!


-Bill

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:12 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Roger wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.


Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

"Not really"? Are we disagreeing about something?


Probably not. I was referring to the remark about they must have a lot
of pull or influence, or something to that effect :-))

snip

Roger, we are preaching to the choir. These spam and fraud issues are
almost daily subjects (ad nauseum) on any internet forum such as this
one. Hell, these scams get reported on the evening network news. You'd
have to live in a cave...seems that quite a few people do!

When you consider (I think the number is 20%) of the computers hooked
to the net are infected It's one whale of a lot. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



-Bill

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:12 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Roger wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.


Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

"Not really"? Are we disagreeing about something?


Probably not. I was referring to the remark about they must have a lot
of pull or influence, or something to that effect :-))

snip

Roger, we are preaching to the choir. These spam and fraud issues are
almost daily subjects (ad nauseum) on any internet forum such as this
one. Hell, these scams get reported on the evening network news. You'd
have to live in a cave...seems that quite a few people do!

When you consider (I think the number is 20%) of the computers hooked
to the net are infected It's one whale of a lot. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



-Bill


MUCH tougher laws and punishments are needed - to "help" out in this area.
I say help, because it won't be a total and/or immediate cure. Though some
laws are coming out, they're slow and "untested". This is still a "new"
arena for the law makers, many of whom no doubt are still stuck in the stone
ages - mentally. They fail to keep up with "current" demands and issues. 20%
if that is the number, is pretty steep - and that isn't taking into account
the many who get online - new - each day. They get sucked into this not
knowing what to expect. Be it ripped off or a damned virus. My opinion, take
all those ass holes out - responsible for that - and execute them. They're
not worth any more than the terrorists we're trying to protect the citizenry
from in other areas. Once people see stiffer punishments being carried out,
they may stop and think about doing it again (if they've not been caught
yet) or in the future. This country is getting more and more like the
lawless Wild West. Laws are put into effect every day, yet more and more are
being broken just as fast. What good are laws, if not adhered to?

To those who "may" be new on here, DO NOT trust "everything" you read,
especially any e-mails coming your way - in particular from strangers.
BEFORE you open up any files - even in newsgroups, READ some comments from
those who've been around or know the tricks that are used by the scum bags.
It could save you some grief.

I got an e-mail the other day from a friend of mine which reported 3 of the
competing Online Servers are suing some people who were accused of sending
out canned spam - as per the Can Spam act. Spam which has no traceable
address or at least no way to tell them to drop you from their list. Will
they win? We'll have to wait and see. Will it stop them from doing it again?
Who knows. Some people never learn. Stay tuned!

TRM

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:14:33 -0400, "OH YEAH"
wrote:

"Roger" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:12 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Roger wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:26:17 -0600, -exray
wrote:

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible.


Not really. It depends mainly on the integrity of the site hosting
the problem. A forward of the problem post/e-mail *with headers* to a
good ISP will cause them to check. If they come up with anything that
user is gone.

"Not really"? Are we disagreeing about something?


Probably not. I was referring to the remark about they must have a lot
of pull or influence, or something to that effect :-))

snip

Roger, we are preaching to the choir. These spam and fraud issues are
almost daily subjects (ad nauseum) on any internet forum such as this
one. Hell, these scams get reported on the evening network news. You'd
have to live in a cave...seems that quite a few people do!

When you consider (I think the number is 20%) of the computers hooked
to the net are infected It's one whale of a lot. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



-Bill


MUCH tougher laws and punishments are needed - to "help" out in this area.
I say help, because it won't be a total and/or immediate cure. Though some
laws are coming out, they're slow and "untested". This is still a "new"
arena for the law makers, many of whom no doubt are still stuck in the stone
ages - mentally. They fail to keep up with "current" demands and issues. 20%
if that is the number, is pretty steep - and that isn't taking into account
the many who get online - new - each day. They get sucked into this not
knowing what to expect. Be it ripped off or a damned virus. My opinion, take
all those ass holes out - responsible for that - and execute them. They're
not worth any more than the terrorists we're trying to protect the citizenry
from in other areas. Once people see stiffer punishments being carried out,
they may stop and think about doing it again (if they've not been caught
yet) or in the future. This country is getting more and more like the
lawless Wild West. Laws are put into effect every day, yet more and more are
being broken just as fast. What good are laws, if not adhered to?


Although some will think this off topic I think it pretty well
pertains to all newsgroups. Sorry about getting long winded.

To those who "may" be new on here, DO NOT trust "everything" you read,
especially any e-mails coming your way - in particular from strangers.

And don't trust attachments even if they are from friends unless you
are expecting them. In general you are most likely to receive a virus
from someone who has you in their address book.

No one should be on the net without a firewall and virus checker.
ISPs are talking about blocking customers with infected machines and
not letting them back on until they can prove the machine is clean and
safe with an up-to-date firewall and virus checker.

If all of these infected machines were booted off it would remove one
of the current main tools for spreading viruses and spam AND it would
make the end users far more diligent about keeping up-to-date and
practicing safe computing.

BEFORE you open up any files - even in newsgroups, READ some comments from
those who've been around or know the tricks that are used by the scum bags.
It could save you some grief.

I got an e-mail the other day from a friend of mine which reported 3 of the
competing Online Servers are suing some people who were accused of sending
out canned spam - as per the Can Spam act. Spam which has no traceable
address or at least no way to tell them to drop you from their list. Will
they win? We'll have to wait and see. Will it stop them from doing it again?
Who knows. Some people never learn. Stay tuned!


First, to the newbies and some not so new. As TRM said; never open a
link in a post that contains nothing except the link, or wait until at
least several others have opened it first and commented on it. Don't
even open the posts that appear to be out of place on a news group
such as "so and so caught naked", or along those lines. The links can
take you to sites that can plant malicious code on your computer. Code
that can log key strokes and give others access to your computer and
the files on it. Some of that code will download thousands of adds,
and addresses, turning *YOUR* computer into a spam spewing zombie. As
I mentioned before; as I recall, the last figures I saw estimate that
over 20% of the personal computers on line are infected with viruses,
worms, or have been turned into spam spewing zombies. That is
millions of computers! It's no wonder the net is slow at times.

A recent article titled "20 Minutes" said the average "unprotected
computer" hooked to broadband such as cable will be infected within 20
minutes.

As a wake up call, when I went to a page last week I had a window pop
open to ask where I wanted to save the file? What file? I hadn't
tried to download anything. Just visit a page I visit nearly every
day. A quick view of the source code on their page showed it was
trying to install a program on my machine. His page was infected! My
firewall, virus checker, choice of browser, and browser settings
saved my machine.

The "Can Spam Act", better known in computing circles as "Eat Your
Spam Act", is a prime example of the unknowing trying to regulate
something.

It requires the sender include a Click here to Remove from the
mailing list, when in fact any one in-the-know, knows better than to
reply to any spam in any manner except to the abuse desk at where
ever.
That many use this method to verify the address seems lost on the law
makers. Of course they managed to exclude them selves, charities, and
religious organizations for some strange reason.

At least they did include the requirement for a valid reply to address
which is about the only thing the spammers are getting caught by. OTOH
some ISPs such as AOL are taking some of them to court in civil
actions.

I'm pretty sure they will win the specific cases, but I don't see it
as much of a deterrent. The spam and scams are just too lucrative.
Even if they only received 1/10 of one percent returns they are making
fortunes and by that I mean many millions of dollars.

Another reason for not using HTML mail readers, or turning it off.
Opening an HTML mail to see what's in it can easily verify the address
and any adds opened count as money in the spammer's pockets.

I do think that the companies in the adds should also be held
responsible. I called one well known company to complain about spam
and pop-up adds for their company. The response: "We just hire the
advertising company. We aren't responsible for the way they advertise
our product".

As a final note, Never, Ever, click on a link in an e-mail to up-date
your operating system. If you use Windows never use any route except
"Windows Update", or by going directly to the proper MS site. Don't
use the links in an e-mail to get there either.

I could write many pages on how to do "safe computing" but the ones
who need it wouldn't read it because they know it'll never happen to
them.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
TRM

"-exray" wrote in message
...
OH YEAH wrote:

shown, which did prove you wrong - TO A POINT - but not entirely. It
still doesn't mean they do "scrutinize" ALL e-mails. Maybe some. I will
agree, to a point it is canned. . I'm not saying you are completely wrong
or I'm completely correct.. The system isn't the greatest, we can both
agree on that. But it is all they offer! So, we deal with it.

Well clearly they want the things reported to them so they can get the
header info and have the bogus sites shut down as rapidly as possible. And
they seem to do a good job of that. I wonder what kind of SWAT team they
have that can get a page pulled on a server in Romania within hours?
Maybe we should send THEM after Osama!

Its still disingenuous and misleading for me, you, them or anybody else to
suggest that the answer might be anything other "its not from us". Next
thing ya know the phishers will start sending out bogus replies saying
"yes, that was us, please log in and give us your info".

Some people have a hard time understanding the level of fraud that exists
on the internet. I knew a lady on another forum who got bitten TWICE with
those phony Microsoft emails that told you to delete such and such file.
When she got chastised for doing it the second time her response was "Why
would Microsoft send me phony emails?". She just didn't get it. I guess
ebay has an overdose of that mentality around which they have to tailor
their procedures.

-Bill

Points well taken and I couldn't agree more.

TRM