On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 18:41:32 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

Iraq, geez, when will we learn???

I just heard that the war has cost every taxpayer about $27,000. That will
have to be paid off over how many years now of deficits and cuts in
services?

It just makes me so mad that we let W (and mainly Cheney and Rumsfeld, who
had been planning this war since before their days in Bush Sr.'s term) run
us into this. I had a "No War" sign on my lawn from the start... so, I can
speak, not like the "hindsight" hawks.

Imagine if we had gone in there with massive infrastructure improvements.
Iraquis would sure be on our side, we wouldnt have lost 2000+ men, nor
would we have killed 20K+ of them. What a disaster, morally, economically,
and ultimately, for years to come, for our homeland security. Our image in
the world is ****. Those tribes done forget like we do a few years later!
Anyone hear from Osama lately? NO, he's smart. Smarter than us. He'll be
back, maybe 5-8 years from now when our $1.98 security is in full force.

Mark Oppat



I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we
will get even more.

beerbarrel wrote...
"I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we
will get even more."


wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally
off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last...

*******s? most of the dead did nothing against us... ever. They just got
in the way. You can be sure that their relatives want to hurt us, now!
Why is it everyone else is an enemy until you meet them and realize they are
human, just like us, they want to live and be prosperous. They have
children, mothers, and fathers. A smaller group has taken up arms against
us... and, for reasons you might agree with if you were there.

Religion teaches there is absolute good and absolute evil, and thats what W
and the other nuts that lead us into this believe. Big trouble, there.
Well, guess what. No person, no country, no movement, just like no radio,
is absolutely good or bad. There are very good reasons some of those Iraqis
are against us. If you were raised there you might understand that. But
rather than fix that, we made it worse. REmember, this war has NOTHING to
do with Al Queida, except they like that we are wasting our time while we
weaken ourselves and disaster recovery efforts.

IF you could ask an insurgent why he's shooting, the # 1 answer is to
protect his country from the invaiders, the "evil" USA. OK, that's not
the smartest thought, but , thats what he believes. Hmm. If we werent
there, the shooting would decrease. Yes, there will be some other war, now
that we stirred the pot, but it has nothing to do with us. They gotta sort
that out. No country is gonna be safe because of us.

Hmmm. The "Coalition of the Willing? ... guess thats like putting up a
sign that says "watch out for this sign".

Not to mention the wounded, suffering slowly with no medical facilities,
no one to help. Starving because they cant work and because we have
destroyed what little support systems there were. Imagine that in your own
neighborhood. Just try. War is hell, just ask any soldier.

You DO understand that the Iraqi citizens never plotted to attack the USA,
and had NO connection to Al Quieda. Too bad W , and much of the USA hawk
populus still doesnt understand this. There was a nutcase leader. IF we
needed to remove him, we could have done that pretty surgically, and not
shot up and bombed the whole country. Remember, Saddam's followers
deserted after his fall. They were ready to sign up with the new president,
or whoever pays their salary, but we botched that up and let massive looting
break out.

When's the last time you heard W say "weapons of mass destruction"? Seems
thats all he could say in 2002... kept at it. All the experts, and other
national leaders, said, no. Well, Kim Jong Il sure has them.... hey,
lets bomb him! Pre-emptive strike, right?

George Sr. knew these problems. At least he had some foreign experience.
He tried to talk W out of it, like he did Cheney and Rummy way back when.
Dad turns out to be a genius next to W.

Thats why our real enemies are succeeding. They know we will never take
the time to understand our enemies. We like to shoot first and think later.
That is why we will never "win" another war, including this mess.

Meanwhile, the extremists everywhere else are laughing in joy at our
failure, and why we are going to suffer further attacks for many many years
to come.

For how long Cheney and Rumsfeld were planning this, you'd think it was put
together by some second grade art class.

Think back to Vietnam.... what great positive change did we make in the
world... while spending 50+ of our guys and how many $$$? "We defeated
Communism!"
Uh, I dont think so. It eventually defeated itself 20 years later.

Some wars are just, or at least have furthered our cause. WW2, we stopped a
madman. He rose to power because of injust WW1 sanctions against Germany,
but thats another story. Gulf war, we stopped a madman, and created
another (Osama + Al Queida).

I'm done here. Too depressing...Back to our usual on topic discussions....


Mark Oppat


"

bad enough you have to hear this drivel on tv and in the papers from the liberal elite pantloads but here too?
"Peace in our time" comes to mind
mit

"Mark Oppat" wrote in message ...
| beerbarrel wrote...
| "I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we
| will get even more."
|
|
| wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally
| off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last...
|
| *******s? most of the dead did nothing against us... ever. They just got
| in the way. You can be sure that their relatives want to hurt us, now!
| Why is it everyone else is an enemy until you meet them and realize they are
| human, just like us, they want to live and be prosperous. They have
| children, mothers, and fathers. A smaller group has taken up arms against
| us... and, for reasons you might agree with if you were there.
|
| Religion teaches there is absolute good and absolute evil, and thats what W
| and the other nuts that lead us into this believe. Big trouble, there.
| Well, guess what. No person, no country, no movement, just like no radio,
| is absolutely good or bad. There are very good reasons some of those Iraqis
| are against us. If you were raised there you might understand that. But
| rather than fix that, we made it worse. REmember, this war has NOTHING to
| do with Al Queida, except they like that we are wasting our time while we
| weaken ourselves and disaster recovery efforts.
|
| IF you could ask an insurgent why he's shooting, the # 1 answer is to
| protect his country from the invaiders, the "evil" USA. OK, that's not
| the smartest thought, but , thats what he believes. Hmm. If we werent
| there, the shooting would decrease. Yes, there will be some other war, now
| that we stirred the pot, but it has nothing to do with us. They gotta sort
| that out. No country is gonna be safe because of us.
|
| Hmmm. The "Coalition of the Willing? ... guess thats like putting up a
| sign that says "watch out for this sign".
|
| Not to mention the wounded, suffering slowly with no medical facilities,
| no one to help. Starving because they cant work and because we have
| destroyed what little support systems there were. Imagine that in your own
| neighborhood. Just try. War is hell, just ask any soldier.
|
| You DO understand that the Iraqi citizens never plotted to attack the USA,
| and had NO connection to Al Quieda. Too bad W , and much of the USA hawk
| populus still doesnt understand this. There was a nutcase leader. IF we
| needed to remove him, we could have done that pretty surgically, and not
| shot up and bombed the whole country. Remember, Saddam's followers
| deserted after his fall. They were ready to sign up with the new president,
| or whoever pays their salary, but we botched that up and let massive looting
| break out.
|
| When's the last time you heard W say "weapons of mass destruction"? Seems
| thats all he could say in 2002... kept at it. All the experts, and other
| national leaders, said, no. Well, Kim Jong Il sure has them.... hey,
| lets bomb him! Pre-emptive strike, right?
|
| George Sr. knew these problems. At least he had some foreign experience.
| He tried to talk W out of it, like he did Cheney and Rummy way back when.
| Dad turns out to be a genius next to W.
|
| Thats why our real enemies are succeeding. They know we will never take
| the time to understand our enemies. We like to shoot first and think later.
| That is why we will never "win" another war, including this mess.
|
| Meanwhile, the extremists everywhere else are laughing in joy at our
| failure, and why we are going to suffer further attacks for many many years
| to come.
|
| For how long Cheney and Rumsfeld were planning this, you'd think it was put
| together by some second grade art class.
|
| Think back to Vietnam.... what great positive change did we make in the
| world... while spending 50+ of our guys and how many $$$? "We defeated
| Communism!"
| Uh, I dont think so. It eventually defeated itself 20 years later.
|
| Some wars are just, or at least have furthered our cause. WW2, we stopped a
| madman. He rose to power because of injust WW1 sanctions against Germany,
| but thats another story. Gulf war, we stopped a madman, and created
| another (Osama + Al Queida).
|
| I'm done here. Too depressing...Back to our usual on topic discussions....
|
|
| Mark Oppat
|
|
| "
|
|
|

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:45:41 GMT, "MIT"
wrote:

bad enough you have to hear this drivel on tv and in the papers from the liberal elite pantloads but here too?
"Peace in our time" comes to mind
mit

Poor widdle you -- why don't you buy a computer with a delete
key?


"Mark Oppat" wrote in message ...
| beerbarrel wrote...
| "I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we
| will get even more."
|
|
| wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally
| off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last...
|
| *******s? most of the dead did nothing against us... ever. They just got
| in the way. You can be sure that their relatives want to hurt us, now!
| Why is it everyone else is an enemy until you meet them and realize they are
| human, just like us, they want to live and be prosperous. They have
| children, mothers, and fathers. A smaller group has taken up arms against
| us... and, for reasons you might agree with if you were there.
|
| Religion teaches there is absolute good and absolute evil, and thats what W
| and the other nuts that lead us into this believe. Big trouble, there.
| Well, guess what. No person, no country, no movement, just like no radio,
| is absolutely good or bad. There are very good reasons some of those Iraqis
| are against us. If you were raised there you might understand that. But
| rather than fix that, we made it worse. REmember, this war has NOTHING to
| do with Al Queida, except they like that we are wasting our time while we
| weaken ourselves and disaster recovery efforts.
|
| IF you could ask an insurgent why he's shooting, the # 1 answer is to
| protect his country from the invaiders, the "evil" USA. OK, that's not
| the smartest thought, but , thats what he believes. Hmm. If we werent
| there, the shooting would decrease. Yes, there will be some other war, now
| that we stirred the pot, but it has nothing to do with us. They gotta sort
| that out. No country is gonna be safe because of us.
|
| Hmmm. The "Coalition of the Willing? ... guess thats like putting up a
| sign that says "watch out for this sign".
|
| Not to mention the wounded, suffering slowly with no medical facilities,
| no one to help. Starving because they cant work and because we have
| destroyed what little support systems there were. Imagine that in your own
| neighborhood. Just try. War is hell, just ask any soldier.
|
| You DO understand that the Iraqi citizens never plotted to attack the USA,
| and had NO connection to Al Quieda. Too bad W , and much of the USA hawk
| populus still doesnt understand this. There was a nutcase leader. IF we
| needed to remove him, we could have done that pretty surgically, and not
| shot up and bombed the whole country. Remember, Saddam's followers
| deserted after his fall. They were ready to sign up with the new president,
| or whoever pays their salary, but we botched that up and let massive looting
| break out.
|
| When's the last time you heard W say "weapons of mass destruction"? Seems
| thats all he could say in 2002... kept at it. All the experts, and other
| national leaders, said, no. Well, Kim Jong Il sure has them.... hey,
| lets bomb him! Pre-emptive strike, right?
|
| George Sr. knew these problems. At least he had some foreign experience.
| He tried to talk W out of it, like he did Cheney and Rummy way back when.
| Dad turns out to be a genius next to W.
|
| Thats why our real enemies are succeeding. They know we will never take
| the time to understand our enemies. We like to shoot first and think later.
| That is why we will never "win" another war, including this mess.
|
| Meanwhile, the extremists everywhere else are laughing in joy at our
| failure, and why we are going to suffer further attacks for many many years
| to come.
|
| For how long Cheney and Rumsfeld were planning this, you'd think it was put
| together by some second grade art class.
|
| Think back to Vietnam.... what great positive change did we make in the
| world... while spending 50+ of our guys and how many $$$? "We defeated
| Communism!"
| Uh, I dont think so. It eventually defeated itself 20 years later.
|
| Some wars are just, or at least have furthered our cause. WW2, we stopped a
| madman. He rose to power because of injust WW1 sanctions against Germany,
| but thats another story. Gulf war, we stopped a madman, and created
| another (Osama + Al Queida).
|
| I'm done here. Too depressing...Back to our usual on topic discussions....
|
|
| Mark Oppat
|
|
| "
|
|
|

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

beerbarrel wrote...
"I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we
will get even more."


wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the war....totally
off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last...

*******s?


You have your stance and I have mine......That's the magic in freedom
of opinion ehh?

I sure cherish that freedom, sir! And, I hope it spreads across the globe.
We dont always use it like we should, though.

Mark Oppat


"Beerbarrel" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

beerbarrel wrote...
"I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we
will get even more."


wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the
war....totally
off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last...

*******s?


You have your stance and I have mine......That's the magic in freedom
of opinion ehh?

I agree with you there...


On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:40:20 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

I sure cherish that freedom, sir! And, I hope it spreads across the globe.
We dont always use it like we should, though.

Mark Oppat


"Beerbarrel" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:

beerbarrel wrote...
"I think we killed more than 20000 of those *******s....hopefully we
will get even more."


wow, this swerved way off...from UPS service to taxes to the
war....totally
off topic, sorry, just went down this path I have to say my last...

*******s?


You have your stance and I have mine......That's the magic in freedom
of opinion ehh?

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:01:40 -0500, "Mark Oppat"
wrote:


Some wars are just, or at least have furthered our cause. WW2, we stopped a
madman. He rose to power because of injust WW1 sanctions against Germany,
but thats another story. Gulf war, we stopped a madman,

Wrong. I always wondered why Saddam didn't send Bush One a
note five years later saying, "I've still got my job. How you doin'?"



and created
another (Osama + Al Queida).

I'm done here. Too depressing...Back to our usual on topic discussions....


Mark Oppat


"