"Mark Roberts" wrote in message
...
CA was in NJ had written:
| David Eduardo wrote:
|
| Some US 50's are 50 day and night; a few are non-directional all hours,
| others go directional at night, others are directional at all hours.
And
| then there are many 50's in the daytime, that reduce to lower levels at
| night... as low as 250 watts!
|
| KIQN/Tooele UT on 1010 runs 50,000w day, 3,100w critical hours and a
| whopping 13w (yes thirteen watts) nights.
|

That station doesn't have a DA. Might it be possible that KIQN once
had a DA-N and then gave it up?

I think it was a low-power daytimer that upgraded to the best it can get.

Does nighttime coverage really matter any more? How much radio
listening is there at night (after PM drive)? And, more to
the point, is that an audience worth selling to?

In LA, 53.3% of all persons 12+ listen to radio in the 7 to Midnight time
period.

Keep in mind that in deep winter, sunset may happen in the middle of
afternoon drive and sunrise late in morning drive. That means a daytimer in
a middle latitude may operate from 6:30 AM to 4:45 PM. So night operation is
critical.

I wonder if a good, solid cost/benefit analysis has really been
done for stations with limited coverage that are still staying on 24/7.
I suppose the costs these days are marginally low enough that a
small amount of revenue would make it worthwhile.

Since overall ratings performance and pricing are based on 6AM-Mid, Mon-Sun,
you don't see many daytimes doing well anywhere.

David Eduardo wrote:
"Mark Roberts" wrote in message
...

CA was in NJ had written:
| David Eduardo wrote:
|
| Some US 50's are 50 day and night; a few are non-directional all hours,
| others go directional at night, others are directional at all hours.

And

| then there are many 50's in the daytime, that reduce to lower levels at
| night... as low as 250 watts!
|
| KIQN/Tooele UT on 1010 runs 50,000w day, 3,100w critical hours and a
| whopping 13w (yes thirteen watts) nights.
|

That station doesn't have a DA. Might it be possible that KIQN once
had a DA-N and then gave it up?


I think it was a low-power daytimer that upgraded to the best it can get.


Does nighttime coverage really matter any more? How much radio
listening is there at night (after PM drive)? And, more to
the point, is that an audience worth selling to?


In LA, 53.3% of all persons 12+ listen to radio in the 7 to Midnight time
period.

Keep in mind that in deep winter, sunset may happen in the middle of
afternoon drive and sunrise late in morning drive. That means a daytimer in
a middle latitude may operate from 6:30 AM to 4:45 PM. So night operation is
critical.


I wonder if a good, solid cost/benefit analysis has really been
done for stations with limited coverage that are still staying on 24/7.
I suppose the costs these days are marginally low enough that a
small amount of revenue would make it worthwhile.


Since overall ratings performance and pricing are based on 6AM-Mid, Mon-Sun,
you don't see many daytimes doing well anywhere.

Are there that many daytimers left? The only one I know if in LA (or
anywhere
else for that matter) is KBRT-740 on Avalon (KCBS stomps on it as soon as it
gets just a little bit twilighty...)

All of the other local daytime-only stations (KIEV-870, whoever's on 900
and 1220 over in Pomona....were there any others) are full timers now
(much to the consternation of the DXers out there....)

P.S. Wasn't the expanded band designed to give these daytimers a place to
go be fulltimers without cluttering up the rest of the band? Well, guess
what
didn't happen...

Are there that many daytimers left?

In the USA, AM daytime-only stations are "Class D". This used to be a
strictly daytime-only classification, but quite a few years ago many
of these stations were reallocated with "flea power" nighttime
signals, as low as 1 WATT. Today, "Class D" AM stations are limited
to a maximum of 50,000 watts daytime, but only a maximum of 250 watts
at night.

I don't know what the lowest DAYTIME power level for North American AM
stations is; despite it traditionally being 250 watts, there are a
number of stations using less than that during the daytime; I've heard
of one 170-watt daytimer, and right in my own backyard, 1170 WWTR in
Bridgewater, NJ is licensed for 243 watts, non-directional,
daytime-only. In that case, it's a long story -- the station
originated as WBRW, a 500-watt directional daytimer which went dark in
1990. Their license was subsequently bought out with the intent of
getting it back on the air under new ownership. Unfortunately, the
original WBRW transmitter site was vandalized beyond repair and the
towers were taken down, so in order to help simplify the construction
of a new site, they were granted a Construction Permit to change to a
one-tower non-directional signal, which necessitated the power
reduction to 243 watts. So, in effect, New Jersey got a "new" AM
daytimer in 1997 -- even though the FCC stopped accepting applications
for new daytimers a decade earlier!

Charles Hobbs had written:

| Are there that many daytimers left? The only one I know if in LA (or
| anywhere
| else for that matter) is KBRT-740 on Avalon (KCBS stomps on it as soon as it
| gets just a little bit twilighty...)
|
| All of the other local daytime-only stations (KIEV-870, whoever's on 900
| and 1220 over in Pomona....were there any others) are full timers now
| (much to the consternation of the DXers out there....)

All the AMs in the Bay Area are full-time except for two,
KDYA/1190 and KTIM/1510. And even KTIM has a CP for DA-2 with COL Piedmont.
That's one of the benefits (I guess) of living in an area where the
nighttime signal can be shot out over the ocean.

("Bay Area" is defined here as 100 km radius from the reference coordinates
for Oakland, minus stations east of Solano, Contra Costa, Alameda,
or Santa Clara counties.)

Even back in the 1980s, when I was in Houston, I recall that, of
the AM stations, only KIKK and KCOH were daytimers.

| P.S. Wasn't the expanded band designed to give these daytimers a place to
| go be fulltimers without cluttering up the rest of the band?

No, it was more designed to resolve situations where stations had
very critical nighttime patterns to other stations, with
interference often resulting due to natural variations in
propagation. Most of the stations that got x-band allocations were
DA-N stations.

--
Mark Roberts
Oakland, California
(it will forward)

David Eduardo had written:

| "Mark Roberts" wrote:
|
| Does nighttime coverage really matter any more? How much radio
| listening is there at night (after PM drive)? And, more to
| the point, is that an audience worth selling to?
|
| In LA, 53.3% of all persons 12+ listen to radio in the 7 to Midnight time
| period.

But what does the hour-by-hour breakdown look like? And are other
markets comparable? With a time period that broad, and a criterion
that easy to meet, it could just as easily be that the figure is
skewed from leftover PM drive listening (e.g. people with
hour+-long commutes).

| Keep in mind that in deep winter, sunset may happen in the middle of
| afternoon drive and sunrise late in morning drive. That means a daytimer in
| a middle latitude may operate from 6:30 AM to 4:45 PM.

At about 38 or 39 degrees in the center of any time zone, the minimum
time period for daytime operation would be 7.15 am to 4.45 pm.
Chicago's typically is 7.15 am to 4.15 pm. The comparable time
period in Houston (29 or 30 degrees) was 6.45 or 7 am
(I forget which) to 5.30 pm. The PSRA helps AM drive for these
stations somewhat. It probably isn't as big a factor as it was 30
years ago when PSRAs were first granted on a widescale basis and is
probably most meaningful for small-town community-style stations.

| So night operation is critical.
|
| I wonder if a good, solid cost/benefit analysis has really been
| done for stations with limited coverage that are still staying on 24/7.
| I suppose the costs these days are marginally low enough that a
| small amount of revenue would make it worthwhile.
|
| Since overall ratings performance and pricing are based on 6AM-Mid, Mon-Sun,
| you don't see many daytimes doing well anywhere.

I thought the figures for daytimers were, at least at one time,
weighted to account for hours actually on the air. If not, it seems
to be a serious skewing of the figures, not that I've ever felt
that radio surveying methodologies were particularly good as far as
statistical validity is concerned -- skew upon skew upon skew.


--
Mark Roberts
Oakland, California
(it will forward)