"Telstar Electronics" wrote...
Hey... don't you know Frank's got an answer to everything.
Not a plausible answer... just an answer... lol

But fake feedback does happen, even from genuine people. Even
Wilipedia has pages which may have been written by the
company - self promotion. There are also pages written by
people who are self proclaimed experts.
Some pages relate to secrets - if they have guessed wrong,
who will put them right? Those who know the truth could
be in trouble if they post the real facts.

Even consumer organisations seem to give top ratings to
companies or products known to have a bad reputation with
customers. One in this country, apparently labeled as the
"best", has forced a government department to make their
guidelines legally binding to protect the public from this
company's tricks.

The problem is, however, that this can leave you unable to
believe any "reports" on a product. So, what do you do - never
buy anything just in case it's not as good as the claims?
You could starve to death while wondering if branded beans
really are worth the extra pennies.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...

How about some feedback from a customer (not a shill) after they have
installed it and used it for a couple months in the real world? Or,
even better, how about from some of the people on the other end (i.e,
the RECEIVING end -- why do I have to spell it out for you?)?

And what happened to the rest of my post? You know, the part about how
the human brain functions in a way that the use of a noise gate in
this application makes the audio sound worse rather than better?

Humans, with brains... are you forgetting this is a CB newsgroup.
We keep our shoes on and leave our brains at the door.

A short while back, I changed telephone provider. The new provider
had different systems.
It is difficult enough talking to "customer service" staff, who
clearly didn't learn English in an English speaking country, but the
noise reduction was cutting off bits that really were important
components of speech.

Even without that, the silience between words or phrases is not
natural. It leaves you unsure whether they are just not talking,
or the line has died again.
Every now and then, the sound of them tapping (hard) on computer
keys would give it away.


Human perception plays a paramount role in the
design of any audio (or video) technology.

It should, but I believe that too much is done on a bench, behind
a desk or on paper. Even large organisations can forget that real
life may be different.

You might even say it's absolutely critical. There's even a
facet of engineering called "human engineering" which deals
almost exclusively with interactions between humans
and technology....

Tell that to Web site designers.
Have you ever been to a Web site and given up before the first
page even loaded? I know I have, many times.
No consideration for the people who it is for, the visitors,
whether it will be usable by them or even if site provides what
they really want.

I wonder if Brian has considered whether another speech processor
is really what the CB community really needs right now. Tell me, is
America screeming out for processors aimed at the CB market?


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...

I can think of at least a dozen reasons why people would leave
positive feedback regardless of whether the item is tested or not.
Some of those reasons involve scams. Happens all the time.

Not just scams, human nature.

There are people out there who have tested "miracle" magnetic
products and other fake items. They will swear that they
worked, as claimed or better.

Have you ever seen the effect where David Blaine levitates in
the street? What about the reports, from eye witnesses
that he levitated several feet off the ground?
It was not as they claim, but they were NOT shills or
stooges. They genuinely believe that is what they saw,
and will most likely remember it that way until the day
they die.

People can see what they want to see and remember
what they want to believe happened.

The only real way is to find out for yourself, put your hand
in your pocket. By then, if it's fake, it's too late now - you
have been had.
But, unless you have done that, or have the proof, you
really cannot state that a particular item is fake.

The other option is that, as a gesture of goodwill and to
show how honest he really is, he sends each of us a free
sample to test.
Oh yes and, either way, we get to keep it.

lol.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

"Yo Mamma" wrote...

So basically, what you end up with is unintelligible hash?

Just like my mumma used to make.
Sorry, that was inedible hash.


:~)
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:53:40 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote:

Hey... don't you know Frank's got an answer to everything.
Not a plausible answer... just an answer... lol

The answers are a result of

Many years in which to become cynical.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:05:24 +0100, " Peter"
wrote in :

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...

How about some feedback from a customer (not a shill) after they have
installed it and used it for a couple months in the real world? Or,
even better, how about from some of the people on the other end (i.e,
the RECEIVING end -- why do I have to spell it out for you?)?

And what happened to the rest of my post? You know, the part about how
the human brain functions in a way that the use of a noise gate in
this application makes the audio sound worse rather than better?

Humans, with brains... are you forgetting this is a CB newsgroup.
We keep our shoes on and leave our brains at the door.


......oops, my bad.


A short while back, I changed telephone provider. The new provider
had different systems.
It is difficult enough talking to "customer service" staff, who
clearly didn't learn English in an English speaking country, but the
noise reduction was cutting off bits that really were important
components of speech.

Even without that, the silience between words or phrases is not
natural. It leaves you unsure whether they are just not talking,
or the line has died again.
Every now and then, the sound of them tapping (hard) on computer
keys would give it away.


That's what I was talking about when I mentioned Comcast digital
voice. A friend of mine got it and it's really annoying. Sounds like
she keeps hanging up or the line goes dead. But she's stuck with it
for several more months because of the contract.... I think it's a
rip-off. Going from full-duplex to psuedo/half-duplex is an upgrade?
Not in my book.


Human perception plays a paramount role in the
design of any audio (or video) technology.

It should, but I believe that too much is done on a bench, behind
a desk or on paper. Even large organisations can forget that real
life may be different.


That's exactly the kind of rift that the field of "human engineering"
works to avoid.


You might even say it's absolutely critical. There's even a
facet of engineering called "human engineering" which deals
almost exclusively with interactions between humans
and technology....

Tell that to Web site designers.
Have you ever been to a Web site and given up before the first
page even loaded? I know I have, many times.


I have dial-up. Nuff said.


No consideration for the people who it is for, the visitors,
whether it will be usable by them or even if site provides what
they really want.


I think it's a vast, right-wing conspiracy to get you to buy the
fastest computer with the latest version of windoze. But then I'm
paranoid.... (and no, I'd -never- vote for Hillary!!!)


I wonder if Brian has considered whether another speech processor
is really what the CB community really needs right now. Tell me, is
America screeming out for processors aimed at the CB market?


It's really pretty redundant, since almost every radio built since the
1960's has had some form of AGC in the mic line. If he were to use the
noise gate to trigger a keyer relay, use the processor to increase the
peak-to-average level to 40 or 50%, then put it in a box and not lie
about the specs, he could easily sell them for SSB rigs of all types,
ham included. But alas, as you stated befo

....this is a CB newsgroup.
We keep our shoes on and leave our brains at the door.

On Jul 10, 5:47 pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
It's really pretty redundant, since almost every radio built since the
1960's has had some form of AGC in the mic line. If he were to use the
noise gate to trigger a keyer relay, use the processor to increase the
peak-to-average level to 40 or 50%, then put it in a box and not lie
about the specs, he could easily sell them for SSB rigs of all types,
ham included. But alas, as you stated befo

Frank... I think you're a little confused... cause you appear to be
using limiter and AGC interchangably. Most radios you speak of use a
limiting circuit... not an AGC. There is a huge difference. A typical
limiter circuit in these radios doesn't have nearly the compression of
AGC/limiter combination. That is because the limiter circuit in these
radios has no absolutely no gain... and can only attenuate the audio
signal on large peaks. That equates to very low compression. The
VoiceMax AGC has about 60dB of gain possible. This accounts for the
very high 15:1 compression ratio. Welcome to the real world.
www.telstar-electronics.com

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:54:19 -0700, Telstar Electronics
wrote in
. com:

On Jul 10, 5:47 pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
It's really pretty redundant, since almost every radio built since the
1960's has had some form of AGC in the mic line. If he were to use the
noise gate to trigger a keyer relay, use the processor to increase the
peak-to-average level to 40 or 50%, then put it in a box and not lie
about the specs, he could easily sell them for SSB rigs of all types,
ham included. But alas, as you stated befo

Frank... I think you're a little confused... cause you appear to be
using limiter and AGC interchangably. Most radios you speak of use a
limiting circuit... not an AGC. There is a huge difference. A typical
limiter circuit in these radios doesn't have nearly the compression of
AGC/limiter combination. That is because the limiter circuit in these
radios has no absolutely no gain... and can only attenuate the audio
signal on large peaks. That equates to very low compression. The
VoiceMax AGC has about 60dB of gain possible. This accounts for the
very high 15:1 compression ratio. Welcome to the real world.


In the "real world", stock radios do indeed have AGC. I've mentioned
that many times before, it's been stated in this group many times
since I've been here, and the alignment of mic AGC was even a topic of
"discussion" with Dave the Hypocrite. I would think by now you would
have read a few service manuals but obviously not. Yes, they do have
limiters. Sometimes the limiting is done by the AGC (sharp elbow), and
sometimes it is a seperate circuit. But they all have mic AGC, usually
serving double duty as receive audio AGC. I'm not going to scan my
library to prove it to you -- manuals are available on ebay for pocket
change. A lot of people in the group already have a few and know I'm
right. Get some of your own and read them. THEN you can tell me about
the "real world".

"Telstar Electronics" wrote...
On Jul 1, 1:13 pm, "Rob" wrote:
What have you actually designed and made rather than bought as
kits from manufacturers to re-sell to the public?

Rob,
You mean there's a kit available that is the same circuit?
Wow... you could have saved me a lot of design time.

Brian,

I have just been to your site and, according to that...
In over 5 years of business, only three products appear
to have been created... two of which have been discontinued
(already).
Between discontinuing previous products, and offering this
latest, there appears to have been no products for sale - no
income, no business.

A business with just one $60 product (when it becomes
available), two discontinued items, and large gaps in trading.
You may not be using kits, but just what do you think your
Web site and it's figures say about you and your business?

Right or wrong, he is saying what people see when they
view your site... and what will they think if they ever
see these newsgroup threads.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

Brian,

I have just been to your site and, according to that...
In over 5 years of business, only three products appear
to have been created... two of which have been discontinued
(already).
Between discontinuing previous products, and offering this
latest, there appears to have been no products for sale - no
income, no business.

A business with just one $60 product (when it becomes
available), two discontinued items, and large gaps in trading.
You may not be using kits, but just what do you think your
Web site and it's figures say about you and your business?

Right or wrong, he is saying what people see when they
view your site... and what will they think if they ever
see these newsgroup threads.

They'll know that I have a very small company. I don't see a thing
wrong with that. If they don't like that... nothing I can do about it.
Items are often discontinued by a manufacturer when their profit
margin becomes unacceptable in the marketplace. Why should I continue
to offer a product that I can't make a reasonable profit on? Do you
run a business?