:You win frankie... I'm about done wasting time replying to your
:off topic jabs. Nothing ever makes you happy... the majority
:of all your posts to everyone have been very negative and rude.
:In short, you are time wasting loser.

And nothing has changed...

: the facts, running out of excuses for your voodoo theories, and all

Who'do voodoo..?

: Your bias against the reference was established even before you knew
: the source. If you can't look at the facts objectively then they won't
: make any difference. You prove that all the time because of your
: attitude that "Da' facts are subject to revision". Regardless, see
: below.

I believe we had to ask many times before you would even cought up a
reference.

:I trust the statements made by the original authors, well over
:the lack of any material you have posted. Where is "any
:material" you might have posted..? ... anywhere..?
:yeah, we didn't think so... little or nothing is what we
:see from you.

And we have yet to see any of your publications or materials posted on the
web... with the exception of your news group rants.

: You want to talk about quality or quantity? About websites or
: newsgroups? Do you just want to limit it to the internet, or would a
: college thesis count (several, in fact)?

College name..? Subject..? Basket weaving 101..?

: How about five years of
: formal failure analysis reports? Or more than fifteen years of repair
: records? Do you actually think the whole RF world revolves around a
: few pages posted on the internet?

More than just writing reports... analysis reports and repair records on
what subject..? basket weaving 101 again..?

: snip
:You got a current mfgr that suggests inclusion of resistors and
:caps in a current generation of common rectifier diode strings
:found in rf amplifiers.? Say the 1N5408 as an example..?

: Within five minutes on alta-vista I found two:
: http://www.vishay.com/docs/rect_apnote.pdf
: (formerly General Semiconductors, bought out by Vishay)

Yep, page 6 of the above text pretty much sums its up... "Rectifiers can
be connected in series without external components... " You lose...

For those just joining in on the fun... I along with others claim that the
resistor-capacitor parts placed in parallel with diodes in a typical HV
amplifier supply are for the most part; suggested from dated technical
material and not required when using modern generation rectifiers.

: Your buddy Measures read the ARRL notes regarding manufacturing
: tolerances in semiconductor manufacturing, but what he didn't mention
: on his webpage was that while many rectifiers from the same lot may
: have matching characteristics, using rectifiers from the same lot
: doesn't necessarily mean they are matched.

Note the words "matching characteristics." Did he claim they were
matched..? anywhere..?

: And because silicon
: semiconductors have a negative temperature coefficient, they need to
: be CLOSELY matched for power applications, EVEN IF they are from the
: same lot!

Suggested, not required. Have you taken the subject up with Rich..?

: The cost of matching power rectifiers to save a couple cents
: in resistors isn't cost-effective in manufacturing, and isn't very
: practical or reliable for the average homebrewer. Not only that, but
: any manufacturer must consider that if one or more rectifiers should
: fail, there is no guarantee that the servicing technician has a
: rectifier that matches the remaining set, or even that he has easy
: access to a matched set for a full replacement. So it's a poor
: engineering practice in that respect as well.

You bore the hell out of me Frank... sorry to everyone else, but I had to
say that.

Matching power rectifiers is rather straight forward. Parallel Caps and
Resistors in the rectifier bank generate unwanted heat along with other
serious issues. Others including Rich and myself feel they are not
required when using current generation rectifiers, indeed.. they are bad
news and potential sources of trouble.

: But if you think that not using voltage equalization makes you look
: like a hot-shot, then go for it -- you aren't gambling with MY money!

You are not building amplifiers for the most part... only generating
news group cannon fodder.

: snip
: The 8877 is a very well-designed coaxial-type tube that is capable of
: operation well into the GHz region. As with any other tube, if there
: is no parasitic supression, any lead from the plate to the tank input
: capacitor is going to act like a radiator. If there is enough
:
:Notice the "IF" statement. Keep in mind terms like shielding,
:isolation and good design/contruction practices to remove "IF"
:from the equation.

: See below...

: inductive or capacitive coupling between that line and any resonant
: condition in the input circuit, the amp will oscillate, and it will do
: so at the frequency of the resonance being excited by the plate lead.
:
:There is no "IF" in the example conversion 8877 amplifier described
:on the list server. It is stable without anode lead parasitic
:supressors.

: I have a shorted resistor sitting on my shelf but that doesn't mean
: I'm ever going to find another. Seems to me that you greatly improve
: the odds against parasitics by the little bit of money and effort it
: takes to include some low-Q supression. But like I have said before,
: it's your money, not mine.

If you research the amps list server archives.... you'll find posts by
well known authors and engineers currently working in the industry who
clearly state the 8877 is a stable design without an anode lead supressor
circuit. One of the mentioned authors designs and builds broadcast
and high powered rf amplifiers all the time. See posts made by Ian G3SEK
and John Lyles for details of said.

About the time you and I were last dancing about the 8877 debate was when
subject was mentioned on amps and the supporting information was included.
Go look it up...

: Now because of the high operating frequency possible with that tube,
: combined with the ease of unintentionally creating UHF resonant
: conditions in just about any circuit, and the fact that such short
: wavelengths can sneak through chassis holes and even mesh screens, it
: would be plain foolish to not include even just a low-Q supressor at
: the plate.
:
:"Sneak"..?

: Don't like my choice of words? How about "nanny nanny boo boo"?

Reads and sounds a lot like "sneak".

: Foolish in your opinion which carries little weight
:in this news group or the amps forum. The mentioned 8877 amplifier
:works well, is stable and the reasons for said are described
:on the list server. Your opinion is contrary to those of at
:least three well known leading edge Engineers and/or Authors working
:in the industry. You lose...

: The posts on the list generally disagree with you. And I'm not in a
: discussion with your experts, so if you want these people to speak for
: you then bring them into the newsgroup. Otherwise, address the issues
: as though you can actually think for yourself.

The amps list server is a much better technical forum with peer review. We
seem to be missing any technical posts there made by you.

I'll have to go review "the posts on the list which generally disagree
with me". I seemed to have missed them somewhere.

: You should have gotten a clue from reading the thread where someone
: built an amp with the 813 and left off the parasitic supressor because
: the VHF gain of the tube is poor. What happened? He got parasitics in
: the low VHF range and nuked his tube.
:
:Nice off topic try... We are and were talking about the design
:and construction of the 8877 and the reasons why it is stable in a
:well built circuit, without anode suppression.

: Your 'reason' was that it doesn't need parasitic supression because
: your amp gods say so. That's pathetic, Skippy.

I seemed to have missed that statement "because my amp gods say so".
You just wander all over the place... If you try to stay on one specific
topic, we can clearly show you how big a boob you really are.

: snip
: You present any source material or text directly related to the
: subject.... and we'll go over it. Otherwise, your still just
: chasing windmills with your bitter pill poopy attitude.
:
: No, we won't go over it, because no matter what I produce you will
: call it "dated" regardless of it's validity. That is why I am now
: relying on the logical application of basic electronic principles, an
: example of which is my above explanation on parasitics. You can beg
: for source material all you want, but if you can't logically dispute
: what I wrote above then no other source is needed.
:
:ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... frankie out of steam
:and won't back his statements up.

: I'm not suprised that you can't handle a discussion about fundamental
: electronics, but I am disappointed that you couldn't come up with an
: excuse more clever than "ZZZZZZZZ....".

One topic, per thread post at a time Frankie... it'd be more fun to
debate you, but you're so dry and rude when not wandering off topic.

: snip
: I picked up some very nice information in the exchange... of
: which I'm happy to reference.
:
: Then reference it. I'm not about to read through the entire archive
: just to find your reference, so post a link.
:
:sorry your so lazy franklin...

: The archives are over 10 megs compressed. That's not lazy, that's
: foolish.

"Search Engine" or "Search Function"

: I'm pretty much done with your
:depression laden posts. Nothing is ever going to make you happy
:and you wont post the locations of your touted reference material.

: That's what I thought -- more excuses because you can't support your
: own bogus claims. Probably just another lie, like your license for the
: IB service, and your claim that you found my FCC files. You can't
: provide the proof so you use the typical lame excuses just before you
: bail. Well then leave already, Skippy. What are you waiting for?

A Scan of the actual fcc license emailed to you didn't convince you...
I'm not going to bother going much further to make you happy. I'm still
here, never said I was going anywhere... but you did on one or more posts.

What brings you back frankie..? come on now, you love everyone of us here
on rec.radio.cb

: snip
: Get off your rather large web behind and go review the posts
: at the www.contesting.com web site. Learn something new
: for a big change in your narrow world.
:
: I did. Good info there. But certainly not 'gospel'.
:
:No one said it was, except you.

: I guess I have to disprove another one of your lies:

OK, lets boogie and see what's next...

:In , piper for frankie G
wrote: snip
:These guys are RF Engineers, medium & large amplifier designers and
:broadcast transmitter designers currently working in the high power
:rf amplifier field. I know them well and take their word as gospel
:based on a solid long term track record.

: See that word at the end of the third line, Skippy?

Probably should quailify that better and add the words "much of their
words as gospel". No one is perfect frankie, even the big guy in sky if
you believe in him. But the guys I admire on the amps list server do not
include everyone on the amps list server, never have.

: snip
:Why don't you simply bypass the middle man and ask
:him yourself..? Be your own lap dog for a change.

: Speak for yourself, Skippy. I have already provided enough evidence
: that proves you wrong. If you want to support your own BS then the job
: is yours, not mine.

Wrong about what..? page 6 of your first reference says just what I state,
one can operated series diodes without parallel resistor-capacitor
networks.

: snip
:On subjects where my opinions agree... maybe so. But I and others
:debate and discuss the issues where we do not agree; without all the
:off topic diversions and cannon fodder you like to throw at people.

: Then "debate and discuss the issues" here, Skippy. Don't just tell me
: that something works because someone posted it on a listserver (then
: tell me to go look it up myself). If you want to reference someone
: else, post the words and the credentials, don't just say "someone said
: so, go look it up".

I found it on page six of your first reference... Vishay I believe. I
accept your apology.

Your post is long winded and I've got to go... I'll follow up with the
rest later. You live for this stuff Frankie... must be like a drug fix
for you. Now go relax and wait in your corner, no barking...

skipp
http://sonic.ucdavis.edu

"Have some fun with Frankie spazzin" wrote in
message ...
:You win frankie... I'm about done wasting time replying to your
:off topic jabs. Nothing ever makes you happy... the majority
:of all your posts to everyone have been very negative and rude.
:In short, you are time wasting loser.

And nothing has changed...

: the facts, running out of excuses for your voodoo theories, and all

Who'do voodoo..?

: Your bias against the reference was established even before you knew
: the source. If you can't look at the facts objectively then they won't
: make any difference. You prove that all the time because of your
: attitude that "Da' facts are subject to revision". Regardless, see
: below.

I believe we had to ask many times before you would even cought up a
reference.

:I trust the statements made by the original authors, well over
:the lack of any material you have posted. Where is "any
:material" you might have posted..? ... anywhere..?
:yeah, we didn't think so... little or nothing is what we
:see from you.

And we have yet to see any of your publications or materials posted on the
web... with the exception of your news group rants.

: You want to talk about quality or quantity? About websites or
: newsgroups? Do you just want to limit it to the internet, or would a
: college thesis count (several, in fact)?

College name..? Subject..? Basket weaving 101..?

: How about five years of
: formal failure analysis reports? Or more than fifteen years of repair
: records? Do you actually think the whole RF world revolves around a
: few pages posted on the internet?

More than just writing reports... analysis reports and repair records on
what subject..? basket weaving 101 again..?

: snip
:You got a current mfgr that suggests inclusion of resistors and
:caps in a current generation of common rectifier diode strings
:found in rf amplifiers.? Say the 1N5408 as an example..?

: Within five minutes on alta-vista I found two:
: http://www.vishay.com/docs/rect_apnote.pdf
: (formerly General Semiconductors, bought out by Vishay)

Yep, page 6 of the above text pretty much sums its up... "Rectifiers can
be connected in series without external components... " You lose...
================================================== =======
For those just joining in on the fun... I along with others claim that the
resistor-capacitor parts placed in parallel with diodes in a typical HV
amplifier supply are for the most part; suggested from dated technical
material and not required when using modern generation rectifiers.

*** i can attest to the above, with my home built 3,500 volt at 1.2 amp
supply, only caps in it are the ones in the stepup section, and a really big
dog oil filled on the output (just for grins), there are no other caps
needed with the modern equipment, all i used were two modern 2 amp at 3000
volt rectifier "bricks" and these 3-500's really like this, catch me on
50.125***
================================================== ========


: Your buddy Measures read the ARRL notes regarding manufacturing
: tolerances in semiconductor manufacturing, but what he didn't mention
: on his webpage was that while many rectifiers from the same lot may
: have matching characteristics, using rectifiers from the same lot
: doesn't necessarily mean they are matched.

Note the words "matching characteristics." Did he claim they were
matched..? anywhere..?

: And because silicon
: semiconductors have a negative temperature coefficient, they need to
: be CLOSELY matched for power applications, EVEN IF they are from the
: same lot!

Suggested, not required. Have you taken the subject up with Rich..?

: The cost of matching power rectifiers to save a couple cents
: in resistors isn't cost-effective in manufacturing, and isn't very
: practical or reliable for the average homebrewer. Not only that, but
: any manufacturer must consider that if one or more rectifiers should
: fail, there is no guarantee that the servicing technician has a
: rectifier that matches the remaining set, or even that he has easy
: access to a matched set for a full replacement. So it's a poor
: engineering practice in that respect as well.

You bore the hell out of me Frank... sorry to everyone else, but I had to
say that.

Matching power rectifiers is rather straight forward. Parallel Caps and
Resistors in the rectifier bank generate unwanted heat along with other
serious issues. Others including Rich and myself feel they are not
required when using current generation rectifiers, indeed.. they are bad
news and potential sources of trouble.

: But if you think that not using voltage equalization makes you look
: like a hot-shot, then go for it -- you aren't gambling with MY money!

You are not building amplifiers for the most part... only generating
news group cannon fodder.

: snip
: The 8877 is a very well-designed coaxial-type tube that is capable of
: operation well into the GHz region. As with any other tube, if there
: is no parasitic supression, any lead from the plate to the tank input
: capacitor is going to act like a radiator. If there is enough
:
:Notice the "IF" statement. Keep in mind terms like shielding,
:isolation and good design/contruction practices to remove "IF"
:from the equation.

: See below...

: inductive or capacitive coupling between that line and any resonant
: condition in the input circuit, the amp will oscillate, and it will do
: so at the frequency of the resonance being excited by the plate lead.
:
:There is no "IF" in the example conversion 8877 amplifier described
:on the list server. It is stable without anode lead parasitic
:supressors.

: I have a shorted resistor sitting on my shelf but that doesn't mean
: I'm ever going to find another. Seems to me that you greatly improve
: the odds against parasitics by the little bit of money and effort it
: takes to include some low-Q supression. But like I have said before,
: it's your money, not mine.

If you research the amps list server archives.... you'll find posts by
well known authors and engineers currently working in the industry who
clearly state the 8877 is a stable design without an anode lead supressor
circuit. One of the mentioned authors designs and builds broadcast
and high powered rf amplifiers all the time. See posts made by Ian G3SEK
and John Lyles for details of said.

About the time you and I were last dancing about the 8877 debate was when
subject was mentioned on amps and the supporting information was included.
Go look it up...

: Now because of the high operating frequency possible with that tube,
: combined with the ease of unintentionally creating UHF resonant
: conditions in just about any circuit, and the fact that such short
: wavelengths can sneak through chassis holes and even mesh screens, it
: would be plain foolish to not include even just a low-Q supressor at
: the plate.
:
:"Sneak"..?

: Don't like my choice of words? How about "nanny nanny boo boo"?

Reads and sounds a lot like "sneak".

: Foolish in your opinion which carries little weight
:in this news group or the amps forum. The mentioned 8877 amplifier
:works well, is stable and the reasons for said are described
:on the list server. Your opinion is contrary to those of at
:least three well known leading edge Engineers and/or Authors working
:in the industry. You lose...

: The posts on the list generally disagree with you. And I'm not in a
: discussion with your experts, so if you want these people to speak for
: you then bring them into the newsgroup. Otherwise, address the issues
: as though you can actually think for yourself.

The amps list server is a much better technical forum with peer review. We
seem to be missing any technical posts there made by you.

I'll have to go review "the posts on the list which generally disagree
with me". I seemed to have missed them somewhere.

: You should have gotten a clue from reading the thread where someone
: built an amp with the 813 and left off the parasitic supressor because
: the VHF gain of the tube is poor. What happened? He got parasitics in
: the low VHF range and nuked his tube.
:
:Nice off topic try... We are and were talking about the design
:and construction of the 8877 and the reasons why it is stable in a
:well built circuit, without anode suppression.

: Your 'reason' was that it doesn't need parasitic supression because
: your amp gods say so. That's pathetic, Skippy.

I seemed to have missed that statement "because my amp gods say so".
You just wander all over the place... If you try to stay on one specific
topic, we can clearly show you how big a boob you really are.

: snip
: You present any source material or text directly related to the
: subject.... and we'll go over it. Otherwise, your still just
: chasing windmills with your bitter pill poopy attitude.
:
: No, we won't go over it, because no matter what I produce you will
: call it "dated" regardless of it's validity. That is why I am now
: relying on the logical application of basic electronic principles, an
: example of which is my above explanation on parasitics. You can beg
: for source material all you want, but if you can't logically dispute
: what I wrote above then no other source is needed.
:
:ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... frankie out of steam
:and won't back his statements up.

: I'm not suprised that you can't handle a discussion about fundamental
: electronics, but I am disappointed that you couldn't come up with an
: excuse more clever than "ZZZZZZZZ....".

One topic, per thread post at a time Frankie... it'd be more fun to
debate you, but you're so dry and rude when not wandering off topic.

: snip
: I picked up some very nice information in the exchange... of
: which I'm happy to reference.
:
: Then reference it. I'm not about to read through the entire archive
: just to find your reference, so post a link.
:
:sorry your so lazy franklin...

: The archives are over 10 megs compressed. That's not lazy, that's
: foolish.

"Search Engine" or "Search Function"

: I'm pretty much done with your
:depression laden posts. Nothing is ever going to make you happy
:and you wont post the locations of your touted reference material.

: That's what I thought -- more excuses because you can't support your
: own bogus claims. Probably just another lie, like your license for the
: IB service, and your claim that you found my FCC files. You can't
: provide the proof so you use the typical lame excuses just before you
: bail. Well then leave already, Skippy. What are you waiting for?

A Scan of the actual fcc license emailed to you didn't convince you...
I'm not going to bother going much further to make you happy. I'm still
here, never said I was going anywhere... but you did on one or more posts.

What brings you back frankie..? come on now, you love everyone of us here
on rec.radio.cb

: snip
: Get off your rather large web behind and go review the posts
: at the www.contesting.com web site. Learn something new
: for a big change in your narrow world.
:
: I did. Good info there. But certainly not 'gospel'.
:
:No one said it was, except you.

: I guess I have to disprove another one of your lies:

OK, lets boogie and see what's next...

:In , piper for frankie G
wrote: snip
:These guys are RF Engineers, medium & large amplifier designers and
:broadcast transmitter designers currently working in the high power
:rf amplifier field. I know them well and take their word as gospel
:based on a solid long term track record.

: See that word at the end of the third line, Skippy?

Probably should quailify that better and add the words "much of their
words as gospel". No one is perfect frankie, even the big guy in sky if
you believe in him. But the guys I admire on the amps list server do not
include everyone on the amps list server, never have.

: snip
:Why don't you simply bypass the middle man and ask
:him yourself..? Be your own lap dog for a change.

: Speak for yourself, Skippy. I have already provided enough evidence
: that proves you wrong. If you want to support your own BS then the job
: is yours, not mine.

Wrong about what..? page 6 of your first reference says just what I state,
one can operated series diodes without parallel resistor-capacitor
networks.

: snip
:On subjects where my opinions agree... maybe so. But I and others
:debate and discuss the issues where we do not agree; without all the
:off topic diversions and cannon fodder you like to throw at people.

: Then "debate and discuss the issues" here, Skippy. Don't just tell me
: that something works because someone posted it on a listserver (then
: tell me to go look it up myself). If you want to reference someone
: else, post the words and the credentials, don't just say "someone said
: so, go look it up".

I found it on page six of your first reference... Vishay I believe. I
accept your apology.

Your post is long winded and I've got to go... I'll follow up with the
rest later. You live for this stuff Frankie... must be like a drug fix
for you. Now go relax and wait in your corner, no barking...

skipp
http://sonic.ucdavis.edu

In , "Ken Harris" wrote:


================================================= ========
For those just joining in on the fun... I along with others claim that the
resistor-capacitor parts placed in parallel with diodes in a typical HV
amplifier supply are for the most part; suggested from dated technical
material and not required when using modern generation rectifiers.

*** i can attest to the above, with my home built 3,500 volt at 1.2 amp
supply, only caps in it are the ones in the stepup section, and a really big
dog oil filled on the output (just for grins), there are no other caps
needed with the modern equipment, all i used were two modern 2 amp at 3000
volt rectifier "bricks" and these 3-500's really like this, catch me on
50.125***
================================================= =========

You may not realize this, but you just supported -my- argument, not Skippy's.





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