Hello Programo5:

At 15 dollars each, and used sounds like there are not in premium shape.

It may be possible to have them rewound for a higher current, for
running a 4 or 8 pill amps. My 4 pill 2SC2789 amp will draw 75 to 80
amps with no problem.

A 105 amp alternator may have a higher peak current capability than
just 105 amps. I have never measured it but I would think it would have
say a 10 to 20 percent higher peak intermittent rating. Anybody know
about this or measured it?

Most Installations I have seen with a 8 pill amp have had only a 100 amp
or so Alternator. So when the 8 pill amp wants to draw say double of
what a 4 pill amp will draw something like 150 to 160 amps or more, the
Alternator will put out its maximum output current, but the voltage will
drop, and the battery will start to put out current. And when the amp is
unkeyed the Alternator will try to recharge the battery, at a rapid
rate. Its possible to get behind the curve of the Alternator charging
the Battery, and the battery can over heat and possible be damaged with
high current charging over a long period of time.

A lot of guys use large batteries. I think the large batteries is a bad
call as the Alternator should be able to source all the current, to keep
the voltage as close 14 volts under load to keep the out put power up
there. And if a second Alternator is installed it can be wired to also
charge the vehicles battery or run the electrical system should the
stock Alternator fail.

When the guys volt the amps, running more than 14 volts to increase the
out put power even more, then you must have one or more Alternators that
will have the current capability to maintain the higher voltage. The
Alternators outputs can be connected together as they are diode isolated
internally, so feedback from one alternator into another alternator will
NOT happen.

One of the really neat installations I saw at one of the shoot-outs, was
a Bird Watt meter modified to also be able to indicate the amplifier
input voltage and current. And many guys have a separate volt and amp
meter on the dash to indicate the voltages and currents, pretty neat-o.

Jay in the Mojave

Programbo5 wrote:
I have a chance to pick up like 8 used 105 amp Leece Nevilles for $15 a
piece..Is this to low of an output to make it worth grabbing them and
attempting to turn around and sell them?..Thanks

The internet is more than a global pornography network

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 06:15:14 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :

Hello Programo5:

At 15 dollars each, and used sounds like there are not in premium shape.

It may be possible to have them rewound for a higher current, for
running a 4 or 8 pill amps. My 4 pill 2SC2789 amp will draw 75 to 80
amps with no problem.

A 105 amp alternator may have a higher peak current capability than
just 105 amps. I have never measured it but I would think it would have
say a 10 to 20 percent higher peak intermittent rating. Anybody know
about this or measured it?


The current rating is for a specific RPM which is typically high. The
current drops off to a bare minimum at idle which is why you sometimes
see the idiot light come on while waiting at a stop light.


Most Installations I have seen with a 8 pill amp have had only a 100 amp
or so Alternator. So when the 8 pill amp wants to draw say double of
what a 4 pill amp will draw something like 150 to 160 amps or more, the
Alternator will put out its maximum output current, but the voltage will
drop, and the battery will start to put out current. And when the amp is
unkeyed the Alternator will try to recharge the battery, at a rapid
rate. Its possible to get behind the curve of the Alternator charging
the Battery, and the battery can over heat and possible be damaged with
high current charging over a long period of time.


Starting-type (auto) batteries are designed for fast charging.
However, a deep-cycle battery would be ruined by such cycling.


A lot of guys use large batteries. I think the large batteries is a bad
call as the Alternator should be able to source all the current, to keep
the voltage as close 14 volts under load to keep the out put power up
there.


Lead-acid batteries under charge (engine running) have a thing called
"surface charge" that's higher than the nominal 12.6 battery voltage.
Larger batteries have a larger surface charge, and when under load
they tend to keep up the system voltage better than smaller batteries.


And if a second Alternator is installed it can be wired to also
charge the vehicles battery or run the electrical system should the
stock Alternator fail.


You might have a problem with the regulators. If more than one
alternator is used it's best to run the second from a 'slave'
regulator that's controlled by a 'master' on the first alternator. If
you don't then one alternator will pull the full load until the
voltage drops down to the regulated voltage of the second. The result
is "stepped" regulation and can be quite noisy.


When the guys volt the amps, running more than 14 volts to increase the
out put power even more, then you must have one or more Alternators that
will have the current capability to maintain the higher voltage.


Max current is dictated only by the wire size. Without the regulator,
voltage is limited by the PIV of the rectifiers and the insulation
breakdown voltage. The latter is usually very high (~600 volts) so if
the rectifiers have a reasonably high voltage rating then you can
trash the internal regulator and use an external regulator to get
voltages up to 100 volts or more, depending on how fast you can spin
the rotor. But if all you want is max current at 16 to 18 volts then a
smaller pulley would probably do the trick.


The
Alternators outputs can be connected together as they are diode isolated
internally, so feedback from one alternator into another alternator will
NOT happen.

One of the really neat installations I saw at one of the shoot-outs, was
a Bird Watt meter modified to also be able to indicate the amplifier
input voltage and current. And many guys have a separate volt and amp
meter on the dash to indicate the voltages and currents, pretty neat-o.


......uh, voltmeters and ammeters in the dash aren't exactly new ideas.
Neither are voltmeters and ammeters at the input to the amp -- that's
how input power is measured. The old "5-watt" CB radios were rated by
their input power, and years ago the ham radio limits were also by
input power. Nothing new here except the modification of a Bird to do
the job of a cheap multimeter.

Hello Frank:

Hope you had a enjoyable Christmas.

Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 06:15:14 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :


Hello Programo5:

At 15 dollars each, and used sounds like there are not in premium shape.

It may be possible to have them rewound for a higher current, for
running a 4 or 8 pill amps. My 4 pill 2SC2789 amp will draw 75 to 80
amps with no problem.

A 105 amp alternator may have a higher peak current capability than
just 105 amps. I have never measured it but I would think it would have
say a 10 to 20 percent higher peak intermittent rating. Anybody know
about this or measured it?



The current rating is for a specific RPM which is typically high. The
current drops off to a bare minimum at idle which is why you sometimes
see the idiot light come on while waiting at a stop light.

Gee whiz Frank, I have never seen the idiot light come on while idling,
with a alternator. Back in the 60s, the ol man had a Ford F100 Custom
Cab, Red Bucket Seats (OH YEAH!) with a 292 Y block that had the old
generator that would light up the idiot light while at a stop light.

I modified a Bronco, removing the 170 CI six cyclender and installing a
302 V8, during the 70's and did business with Bill Stroup Racing in Long
Beach Ca. Dear ol Dad called them up and asked what could be done to
improve the horse power in his truck as the 292 Y Block wouldn't do
wheel stands and left him in the slow lane way too long. So Dad
installed a Lincoln 430 with the automatic tranny. WOW! what a
difference. We had to replace the 4:11 gears and the read end to a 3/4
ton rear end, and 3:73 gears. The Palomar 150 Tube amp made a high
pitched noise due to the high out put alternator, Biiitcheeeen!


Most Installations I have seen with a 8 pill amp have had only a 100 amp
or so Alternator. So when the 8 pill amp wants to draw say double of
what a 4 pill amp will draw something like 150 to 160 amps or more, the
Alternator will put out its maximum output current, but the voltage will
drop, and the battery will start to put out current. And when the amp is
unkeyed the Alternator will try to recharge the battery, at a rapid
rate. Its possible to get behind the curve of the Alternator charging
the Battery, and the battery can over heat and possible be damaged with
high current charging over a long period of time.



Starting-type (auto) batteries are designed for fast charging.
However, a deep-cycle battery would be ruined by such cycling.

Yeah good call there. I replaced the wimpy 35 amp alternator on my "Put
and Park Mini truck with a 120 amp alternator. And had to modify the
regulator to have a delayed response to charge the battery as the bigger
alternator tried to charge the battery as it the engine was trying to
start. The 4 pill amp amp really got up and barked then.


A lot of guys use large batteries. I think the large batteries is a bad
call as the Alternator should be able to source all the current, to keep
the voltage as close 14 volts under load to keep the out put power up
there.



Lead-acid batteries under charge (engine running) have a thing called
"surface charge" that's higher than the nominal 12.6 battery voltage.
Larger batteries have a larger surface charge, and when under load
they tend to keep up the system voltage better than smaller batteries.

Das right. Wonder what those spec are?


And if a second Alternator is installed it can be wired to also
charge the vehicles battery or run the electrical system should the
stock Alternator fail.



You might have a problem with the regulators. If more than one
alternator is used it's best to run the second from a 'slave'
regulator that's controlled by a 'master' on the first alternator. If
you don't then one alternator will pull the full load until the
voltage drops down to the regulated voltage of the second. The result
is "stepped" regulation and can be quite noisy.

Is this advice from experience? I have seen many alternators tied
together and not noticed any noise. When the load is applied to the
alternators is when they will be putting out the high currents, and
voltage regulators will be monitoring the out put of its alternator.

I know at times the alternator diodes shutting off will cause a noise,
that can be cured by a bypass capacitor on the alternators output terminal.


When the guys volt the amps, running more than 14 volts to increase the
out put power even more, then you must have one or more Alternators that
will have the current capability to maintain the higher voltage.



Max current is dictated only by the wire size. Without the regulator,
voltage is limited by the PIV of the rectifiers and the insulation
breakdown voltage. The latter is usually very high (~600 volts) so if
the rectifiers have a reasonably high voltage rating then you can
trash the internal regulator and use an external regulator to get
voltages up to 100 volts or more, depending on how fast you can spin
the rotor. But if all you want is max current at 16 to 18 volts then a
smaller pulley would probably do the trick.

Yeah thats how I think the AC Sky class of steel amplifiers are powered.
A alternator diodes are removed, and feeds a input of a 3 phase
transformer and it transforms the voltages to a much higher for the
tubes high voltage B+ voltages. And I have seen external diodes wired in
to allow more current capability.

I have seen the after market voltage regulator that allow the alternator
voltages to reach 18 Volts DC. Wonder how long the amps last doing that?


The
Alternators outputs can be connected together as they are diode isolated
internally, so feedback from one alternator into another alternator will
NOT happen.

One of the really neat installations I saw at one of the shoot-outs, was
a Bird Watt meter modified to also be able to indicate the amplifier
input voltage and current. And many guys have a separate volt and amp
meter on the dash to indicate the voltages and currents, pretty neat-o.



.....uh, voltmeters and ammeters in the dash aren't exactly new ideas.
Neither are voltmeters and ammeters at the input to the amp -- that's
how input power is measured. The old "5-watt" CB radios were rated by
their input power, and years ago the ham radio limits were also by
input power. Nothing new here except the modification of a Bird to do
the job of a cheap multimeter.

I am not saying this is a new idea, but a neat capability to have. And
one has to appreciate the work and ingenuity that goes into this type of
installation. Some of the guys have taken surplus Bird meters and added
them to the dash instrument cluster with back lights that look really
trick, that indicate voltage and current. A cluster of the Bird Meters
showing forward and reverse power, voltage and current look great.
Especillay when the mic is keyed and the back lights come on brighter.

I am planing to have my machinist drill in some small holes in my Bird
Watt Meter Model 43, just above the meter, so that a row of small LED's
can be installed that will indicate the Peak Instantness Power (PIP).
Not the RMS value which is the PEP value, but a power measurement taken
from the actual peak of the voltage, which will be a 3 dB increase in
indicated power. And make ya feel that your getting more power out. A
cheap way to make ya feel ya is ah gettin out hehehhehe.

Jay in the Mojave

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:56:43 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :

Hello Frank:

Hope you had a enjoyable Christmas.


I did, thanks. Did you have fun decorating the Joshua Tree?


Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 06:15:14 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :


Hello Programo5:

At 15 dollars each, and used sounds like there are not in premium shape.

It may be possible to have them rewound for a higher current, for
running a 4 or 8 pill amps. My 4 pill 2SC2789 amp will draw 75 to 80
amps with no problem.

A 105 amp alternator may have a higher peak current capability than
just 105 amps. I have never measured it but I would think it would have
say a 10 to 20 percent higher peak intermittent rating. Anybody know
about this or measured it?



The current rating is for a specific RPM which is typically high. The
current drops off to a bare minimum at idle which is why you sometimes
see the idiot light come on while waiting at a stop light.

Gee whiz Frank, I have never seen the idiot light come on while idling,
with a alternator.


I see you have never been a used car salesman. It happens more often
with carbeurated vehicles, rarely with modern fuel injection systems.


Back in the 60s, the ol man had a Ford F100 Custom
Cab, Red Bucket Seats (OH YEAH!) with a 292 Y block that had the old
generator that would light up the idiot light while at a stop light.

I modified a Bronco, removing the 170 CI six cyclender and installing a
302 V8, during the 70's and did business with Bill Stroup Racing in Long
Beach Ca. Dear ol Dad called them up and asked what could be done to
improve the horse power in his truck as the 292 Y Block wouldn't do
wheel stands and left him in the slow lane way too long. So Dad
installed a Lincoln 430 with the automatic tranny. WOW! what a
difference. We had to replace the 4:11 gears and the read end to a 3/4
ton rear end, and 3:73 gears. The Palomar 150 Tube amp made a high
pitched noise due to the high out put alternator, Biiitcheeeen!


......hmmmmm


Most Installations I have seen with a 8 pill amp have had only a 100 amp
or so Alternator. So when the 8 pill amp wants to draw say double of
what a 4 pill amp will draw something like 150 to 160 amps or more, the
Alternator will put out its maximum output current, but the voltage will
drop, and the battery will start to put out current. And when the amp is
unkeyed the Alternator will try to recharge the battery, at a rapid
rate. Its possible to get behind the curve of the Alternator charging
the Battery, and the battery can over heat and possible be damaged with
high current charging over a long period of time.



Starting-type (auto) batteries are designed for fast charging.
However, a deep-cycle battery would be ruined by such cycling.

Yeah good call there. I replaced the wimpy 35 amp alternator on my "Put
and Park Mini truck with a 120 amp alternator. And had to modify the
regulator to have a delayed response to charge the battery as the bigger
alternator tried to charge the battery as it the engine was trying to
start. The 4 pill amp amp really got up and barked then.


Some of the newer cars have something like that built-in -- some of
them you have to rev the engine before the alternator will take over
the system and the alternator light goes out.


A lot of guys use large batteries. I think the large batteries is a bad
call as the Alternator should be able to source all the current, to keep
the voltage as close 14 volts under load to keep the out put power up
there.



Lead-acid batteries under charge (engine running) have a thing called
"surface charge" that's higher than the nominal 12.6 battery voltage.
Larger batteries have a larger surface charge, and when under load
they tend to keep up the system voltage better than smaller batteries.

Das right. Wonder what those spec are?


I don't think batteries are spec'd for surface charge.


And if a second Alternator is installed it can be wired to also
charge the vehicles battery or run the electrical system should the
stock Alternator fail.



You might have a problem with the regulators. If more than one
alternator is used it's best to run the second from a 'slave'
regulator that's controlled by a 'master' on the first alternator. If
you don't then one alternator will pull the full load until the
voltage drops down to the regulated voltage of the second. The result
is "stepped" regulation and can be quite noisy.

Is this advice from experience?


Actually, yes.


I have seen many alternators tied
together and not noticed any noise. When the load is applied to the
alternators is when they will be putting out the high currents, and
voltage regulators will be monitoring the out put of its alternator.

I know at times the alternator diodes shutting off will cause a noise,
that can be cured by a bypass capacitor on the alternators output terminal.


You probably didn't notice any noise because you were running AM and
the load drew down to the second alternator on key-up. Running SSB
would be a different story and your audio would include a 'clicking'
that followed the audio. But of course you wouldn't hear it anyway
because it happens when you are transmitting.

Anyway, stepped regulation is very hard on an alternator, causing
frequent surges through the field coil and regulator. They aren't
designed to work like that.


When the guys volt the amps, running more than 14 volts to increase the
out put power even more, then you must have one or more Alternators that
will have the current capability to maintain the higher voltage.



Max current is dictated only by the wire size. Without the regulator,
voltage is limited by the PIV of the rectifiers and the insulation
breakdown voltage. The latter is usually very high (~600 volts) so if
the rectifiers have a reasonably high voltage rating then you can
trash the internal regulator and use an external regulator to get
voltages up to 100 volts or more, depending on how fast you can spin
the rotor. But if all you want is max current at 16 to 18 volts then a
smaller pulley would probably do the trick.

Yeah thats how I think the AC Sky class of steel amplifiers are powered.
A alternator diodes are removed, and feeds a input of a 3 phase
transformer and it transforms the voltages to a much higher for the
tubes high voltage B+ voltages. And I have seen external diodes wired in
to allow more current capability.

I have seen the after market voltage regulator that allow the alternator
voltages to reach 18 Volts DC. Wonder how long the amps last doing that?


Depends on the amp. To be perfectly frank, if I used an amp I wouldn't
even mess with anything that runs from 12-14 volts. If solid-state I
would use 28 volt -minimum- for several reasons: power leads are
smaller and have less loss; transistors are more linear; efficiency is
higher because bias is a smaller percent of supply (CE bias can be as
high as 3-4 volts under heavy load, dropping nearly a third of your
supply voltage); voltage difference between battery and alternator is
smaller; etc, etc.


The
Alternators outputs can be connected together as they are diode isolated
internally, so feedback from one alternator into another alternator will
NOT happen.

One of the really neat installations I saw at one of the shoot-outs, was
a Bird Watt meter modified to also be able to indicate the amplifier
input voltage and current. And many guys have a separate volt and amp
meter on the dash to indicate the voltages and currents, pretty neat-o.



.....uh, voltmeters and ammeters in the dash aren't exactly new ideas.
Neither are voltmeters and ammeters at the input to the amp -- that's
how input power is measured. The old "5-watt" CB radios were rated by
their input power, and years ago the ham radio limits were also by
input power. Nothing new here except the modification of a Bird to do
the job of a cheap multimeter.

I am not saying this is a new idea, but a neat capability to have. And
one has to appreciate the work and ingenuity that goes into this type of
installation. Some of the guys have taken surplus Bird meters and added
them to the dash instrument cluster with back lights that look really
trick, that indicate voltage and current. A cluster of the Bird Meters
showing forward and reverse power, voltage and current look great.
Especillay when the mic is keyed and the back lights come on brighter.

I am planing to have my machinist drill in some small holes in my Bird
Watt Meter Model 43, just above the meter, so that a row of small LED's
can be installed that will indicate the Peak Instantness Power (PIP).
Not the RMS value which is the PEP value, but a power measurement taken
from the actual peak of the voltage, which will be a 3 dB increase in
indicated power. And make ya feel that your getting more power out. A
cheap way to make ya feel ya is ah gettin out hehehhehe.


Maybe that's why Motorola designated their cheap CB amp transistors as
MRF454 and MRF455 -- to appeal to the 'big engine' mentality.

Hello Frank:


Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:56:43 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :


Hello Frank:

Hope you had a enjoyable Christmas.



I did, thanks. Did you have fun decorating the Joshua Tree?

Thats a big Bozo No No, we are not allowed to cut down the Joshua Tree's
and such. But some people do put lights on them. There is a commitee
that use to go around and count the darn tree's. New contruction is the
omnly way I seen them cut down and removed. I have a few tree's on my
property but there out of the way.

You might have a problem with the regulators. If more than one
alternator is used it's best to run the second from a 'slave'
regulator that's controlled by a 'master' on the first alternator. If
you don't then one alternator will pull the full load until the
voltage drops down to the regulated voltage of the second. The result
is "stepped" regulation and can be quite noisy.

Is this advice from experience?



Actually, yes.

Ok I have not heard of this noise but will keep an ear for it.



I have seen many alternators tied
together and not noticed any noise. When the load is applied to the
alternators is when they will be putting out the high currents, and
voltage regulators will be monitoring the out put of its alternator.

I know at times the alternator diodes shutting off will cause a noise,
that can be cured by a bypass capacitor on the alternators output terminal.



You probably didn't notice any noise because you were running AM and
the load drew down to the second alternator on key-up. Running SSB
would be a different story and your audio would include a 'clicking'
that followed the audio. But of course you wouldn't hear it anyway
because it happens when you are transmitting.

Anyway, stepped regulation is very hard on an alternator, causing
frequent surges through the field coil and regulator. They aren't
designed to work like that.

I have to agree with that. The 120 amp alternator I had on my put and
park mini truck feed the vehicles system and of course charged the
battery. I used a 4 pill Amp that had wild differances in current draw
from almost nothing to a full on 80 amp draw. This was noticable when
the engine was running at around 3000 RPMs going down the highway while
talking SSB. It would end up stretching the single V belt that would
only last about 4 weeks. I came to have several spares belts and made up
a tool kit that would allow a fast change of the belt, as I got good at
it from experence. As I had changed many belts, I finnialy installed the
stock 65 amp alternator from just being sick and tired of having to
change the belt.


Maybe that's why Motorola designated their cheap CB amp transistors as
MRF454 and MRF455 -- to appeal to the 'big engine' mentality.

Yeah I am sure thats possible, but the nerd linger who designates the
numbers I am sure sets behind a desk and has his car serviced by normal
people.

I would have a number like MRF-HP/454CI-Inc. hehehehehhehe

Matched transistors would go by Balanced MRF-HP/454CI-Hipo Inc
Or even PT2M454-Hipo Inc (Pettle to the Metal) OH YEAH!

Jay in the Mojave

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:11:38 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :

snip
Is this advice from experience?



Actually, yes.

Ok I have not heard of this noise but will keep an ear for it.


Even better, install two ammeters (one on each alternator) and watch
how they -don't- share the load equally.


snip
Maybe that's why Motorola designated their cheap CB amp transistors as
MRF454 and MRF455 -- to appeal to the 'big engine' mentality.

Yeah I am sure thats possible, but the nerd linger who designates the
numbers I am sure sets behind a desk and has his car serviced by normal
people.


What's 'normal'?


I would have a number like MRF-HP/454CI-Inc. hehehehehhehe

Matched transistors would go by Balanced MRF-HP/454CI-Hipo Inc
Or even PT2M454-Hipo Inc (Pettle to the Metal) OH YEAH!


So if the amp has a cooling then it's got a 'blower'? Doesn't matter
since it probably wouldn't pass the emissions inspection. And the
bubble really bursts when you realize that it takes 3kW to equal the
power of a lawnmower engine. So throttle up that moped, Jay -- you be
ridin' with the big boys!

Hello Frank:

This maybe a little long winded but I learned something neat here.

That's a good call having separate amp meters off each alternator.
I am sure one alternator will want to source most of the current, but
thats ok, as the second alternator will have to kick in when the load is
applied. When the load goes nutz-oid wanting a Bazillion amps I am sure
the output current will be close to equal, if the voltage regulators are
set close to each other.

While working as a marine technican/electrican for several years, in Los
Angles I was called to a boat having alternator problems. I talked with
the boat owner and came prepared with a new marine grade alternator and
regulator.

The boat had two engines and each engine had 2 alternators. As the
electrical system needed a redundant back up everything as it did
research and commercial work out at sea for long periods of time. Time
is money and money is time stuff here.

The owner said that when the Engine #1 auxiliary alternator was placed
on line the running voltage did not increase as with the normal main
alternator did. Same for #2 Engine.

Well as the engines where running the main alternator was carrying the
load and you could not see the auxiliary alternator come on line by just
looking at the systems 24 volt system voltage. After pulling off the
field wire from the main alternator, we verified the auxiliary
alternator was really working putting out the needed current to run the
boats 24 volt electrical system. The auxiliary alternators where placed
on line by a lever that over centered and locked into place tightening
the belt that turned the alternator pulley, pretty neat!

Ok so everything was working as we verified the alternators, batteries,
and had to replace a few battery connections. No big deal.

The owner asked me to check out the electrical system #1 and #2 cross
over operation.

The boat or really a ship had to have two of everything, Two: HF Radios,
VHF Radios, Lightening Systems, Engine Indicating Meters and Indicator
Clusters, CB Radios, and of course all of the Nav Electronics like
Radars, ADF, Loran, Depth Finder, Automatic Pilot, and bunches of other
stuff. Ok so every thing ran off the 24 volt system #1 or #2.

But they didn't know how the electrical system #1 and #2 crossed over or
ran the other system when one of the engines was shut down, and wanted
to know how to operate and test it out. I didn't know either as I
couldn't find a cross over contactor relay any where.

After looking over the ships wiring diagram, I saw the cross over
contactor or relay, it had to be turned on (by a switch in the wheel
house) to allow the two electrical systems to be tied together for high
current operation.

But the neat thing that I found was that the two electrical system where
tied together thru a calculated resistance, in this case a short length
of 8 gauge steel wire that would only allow so much current to flow
between the two electrical systems. This allowed the system #1 to be up
and running and be able to run a few things on system #2, and charge the
system #2 batteries, and visa versa. This also allowed the main system
running to not be pulled down by a short in the other system.

The electrical control panel in the wheel house showed all the
alternator voltages and currents. You where able to select which of the
3 battery sets to start the engines, pretty neat. They had a small 4
cyclender gas engine that ran again two alternators and a hydraulic pump
for a auxiliary back up. And a gas powered Honda Generator mounted just
aft of the wheel house to supply 12, 24VDC, and 115 VAC for a back up
back up. Neat stuff.

So a calculated resistance coupled connection between two alternators
would allow the alternators to run separated systems and allow say a
second alternator to back up the other system while not loading it
down. Food for thought.

Jay in the Mojave


Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:11:38 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :

snip

Is this advice from experience?



Actually, yes.

Ok I have not heard of this noise but will keep an ear for it.



Even better, install two ammeters (one on each alternator) and watch
how they -don't- share the load equally.


snip

Maybe that's why Motorola designated their cheap CB amp transistors as
MRF454 and MRF455 -- to appeal to the 'big engine' mentality.

Yeah I am sure thats possible, but the nerd linger who designates the
numbers I am sure sets behind a desk and has his car serviced by normal
people.



What's 'normal'?



I would have a number like MRF-HP/454CI-Inc. hehehehehhehe

Matched transistors would go by Balanced MRF-HP/454CI-Hipo Inc
Or even PT2M454-Hipo Inc (Pettle to the Metal) OH YEAH!



So if the amp has a cooling then it's got a 'blower'? Doesn't matter
since it probably wouldn't pass the emissions inspection. And the
bubble really bursts when you realize that it takes 3kW to equal the
power of a lawnmower engine. So throttle up that moped, Jay -- you be
ridin' with the big boys!

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:37:19 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:56:43 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :

Hello Frank:

Hope you had a enjoyable Christmas.


I did, thanks. Did you have fun decorating the Joshua Tree?


Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 06:15:14 -0800, Jay in the Mojave
wrote in :


Hello Programo5:

At 15 dollars each, and used sounds like there are not in premium shape.

It may be possible to have them rewound for a higher current, for
running a 4 or 8 pill amps. My 4 pill 2SC2789 amp will draw 75 to 80
amps with no problem.

A 105 amp alternator may have a higher peak current capability than
just 105 amps. I have never measured it but I would think it would have
say a 10 to 20 percent higher peak intermittent rating. Anybody know
about this or measured it?



The current rating is for a specific RPM which is typically high. The
current drops off to a bare minimum at idle which is why you sometimes
see the idiot light come on while waiting at a stop light.

Gee whiz Frank, I have never seen the idiot light come on while idling,
with a alternator.


I see you have never been a used car salesman. It happens more often
with carbeurated vehicles, rarely with modern fuel injection systems.


Why would it happen more often with a carburated vehicle?

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:51:08 GMT, Lancer wrote in
. com:

snip
Why would it happen more often with a carburated vehicle?


Because of electronic idle speed control systems: a lot of carbs don't
have them while most fuel injection systems do. Without those systems
the idle can vary quite a bit depending on the temp of the engine
and/or air, humidity, altitude, pressure, etc.

"Jay in the Mojave" wrote in message
...
Hello Frank:
I modified a Bronco,

So do I, but mine not very modified.

removing the 170 CI six cyclender and installing a 302 V8,

Mine is a stock 2 barrel 302, now has 86,000 miles

during the 70's and did business with Bill Stroup Racing in Long Beach Ca.

Hey, mine is a Baja Stroppe, made in April 1973.

Dear ol Dad called them up and asked what could be done to improve the
horse power in his truck as the 292 Y Block wouldn't do wheel stands and
left him in the slow lane way too long. So Dad installed a Lincoln 430
with the automatic tranny.

LOL!!! A C4 trans no doubt.

WOW! what a difference. We had to replace the 4:11 gears and the read end
to a 3/4 ton rear end, and 3:73 gears. The Palomar 150 Tube amp made a
high pitched noise due to the high out put alternator, Biiitcheeeen!

Yeah, they only came with a 45 amp alt, not enough for
the Bronco, let alone a good amp. I put a 200 amp alt &
dual batts in my Bronco.


Jay in the Mojave