Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits) and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:54:03 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote in
:

Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits)


Yep. Tarheel U. has (had?) a program set up for jarheads in Camp
Lejeune.


and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.


Dave would know that already if he actually attended college.







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On Wed, 18 May 2005 14:56:11 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:54:03 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote in
:

Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits)


Yep. Tarheel U. has (had?) a program set up for jarheads in Camp
Lejeune.


and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.


Dave would know that already if he actually attended college.

Heck, you can earn a college "degree" these days without ever setting
a foot in a classroom. But 20 years ago, that just wasn't the case.
You had a certain amount of credits that you had to earn, and a
required course curriculum. Yes, it was possible to do it in less than
four years, but that required an overly ambitious fast-paced schedule.
Most people are not up for that.

Night school allowed people to avoid many of the "nonsense" courses,
which were unrelated to your major, that the full time day programs
usually required you to take. But the people who took the night school
route usually were, like me, working full time during the day, and
could not take as many courses per semester and, consequently, it
could take close to 8 years to earn the B.S.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Thu, 19 May 2005 06:44:10 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Dave would know that already if he actually attended college.

Heck, you can earn a college "degree" these days without ever setting
a foot in a classroom.


Sure. Just send a few bucks to a PO box listed in an advertisement in
the back of Rolling Stone magazine.


But 20 years ago, that just wasn't the case.
You had a certain amount of credits that you had to earn, and a
required course curriculum. Yes, it was possible to do it in less than
four years, but that required an overly ambitious fast-paced schedule.
Most people are not up for that.


It depends on the person. For some people, three hours a day in the
lecture halls is mindbogglingly slow. For others the challenge is
overwhelming. The trick is to choose classes each quarter/semester
that make the most efficient use of study time required -outside- the
classroom. And not to waste your time at keggers.

Also, some colleges and most Universities offer equivalency tests as
well as credits for prior experience directly related to the field. I
cut down my time by almost a full year by testing out of first-year
electricity courses, math all the way through calculus, and was given
credits for being a radio tech in the USMC.


Night school allowed people to avoid many of the "nonsense" courses,
which were unrelated to your major, that the full time day programs
usually required you to take.


Those "nonsense" courses have very legitimate purposes. Suppose your
major is electrical engineering. You need to study economics so you
can do a cost/benefit analysis for a design project, as well as be
able to run a business if the opportunity arises. For the same reason
it's a good idea to study a little business law and accounting. There
is no substitute for good communication skills, -especially- English
composition, and because my objective required strong communication
skills I decided to minor in the field. Along the same lines, a few
courses in humanities and history are also a very good idea since a
lot of current events either revolve around cultural differences and
issues, or require some understanding of the history surrounding the
events. Etc, etc, etc. You pick any course required for a BS and I'll
explain how and why it's related to your field of study.

Or is it that you don't like the idea of a liberal education because
it's 'liberal'?


But the people who took the night school
route usually were, like me, working full time during the day, and
could not take as many courses per semester and, consequently, it
could take close to 8 years to earn the B.S.


If that's the way they choose to do it then that's their choice. I
worked my way through college while working at night -- bartending.







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On Thu, 19 May 2005 04:42:26 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2005 06:44:10 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Dave would know that already if he actually attended college.

Heck, you can earn a college "degree" these days without ever setting
a foot in a classroom.


Sure. Just send a few bucks to a PO box listed in an advertisement in
the back of Rolling Stone magazine.


But 20 years ago, that just wasn't the case.
You had a certain amount of credits that you had to earn, and a
required course curriculum. Yes, it was possible to do it in less than
four years, but that required an overly ambitious fast-paced schedule.
Most people are not up for that.


It depends on the person. For some people, three hours a day in the
lecture halls is mindbogglingly slow. For others the challenge is
overwhelming. The trick is to choose classes each quarter/semester
that make the most efficient use of study time required -outside- the
classroom. And not to waste your time at keggers.

It should be that simple. But you forgot to consider, that not all
courses are offered each semester, pretty much forcing you to do
things "their way". Trying to transfer credits from other schools was
also sometimes problematic. Sometimes they would refuse to give
credit, other times they would only give partial credit. Colleges are
somewhat competitive, and have no incentive to have students give
another school money, and then accept that as credit in their school.
At least that's the way it was 20+ years ago.


Also, some colleges and most Universities offer equivalency tests as
well as credits for prior experience directly related to the field. I
cut down my time by almost a full year by testing out of first-year
electricity courses, math all the way through calculus, and was given
credits for being a radio tech in the USMC.

Yes, I am aware of "testing out" I did similar things, with my
previous tech school credits.


Night school allowed people to avoid many of the "nonsense" courses,
which were unrelated to your major, that the full time day programs
usually required you to take.


Those "nonsense" courses have very legitimate purposes.

Really? I don't think you understand what I refer to as "nonsense".


Suppose your
major is electrical engineering. You need to study economics so you
can do a cost/benefit analysis for a design project, as well as be
able to run a business if the opportunity arises. For the same reason
it's a good idea to study a little business law and accounting. There
is no substitute for good communication skills, -especially- English
composition, and because my objective required strong communication
skills I decided to minor in the field. Along the same lines, a few
courses in humanities and history are also a very good idea since a
lot of current events either revolve around cultural differences and
issues, or require some understanding of the history surrounding the
events. Etc, etc, etc. You pick any course required for a BS and I'll
explain how and why it's related to your field of study.

Ok, then explain to me the necessity of phys-ed courses? Those are the
ones that I was referring to as "nonsense". The examples you gave
above I totally agree with. It's interesting that you'd think I was
referring to them as "nonsense".


Or is it that you don't like the idea of a liberal education because
it's 'liberal'?

A liberal Arts degree is basically useless if making serious money is
one of your goals. Seen on a bumper sticker: "I have a Liberal Arts
degree, Do you want fries with that?"_

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Fri, 20 May 2005 07:52:17 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Ok, then explain to me the necessity of phys-ed courses? Those are the
ones that I was referring to as "nonsense". The examples you gave
above I totally agree with. It's interesting that you'd think I was
referring to them as "nonsense".


Considering that brain function is physiological, it is therefore
dependent upon general health and wellness of the body. And I can tell
that because you feel physical education is "nonsense" that you were
probably one of those fat little kids that couldn't get your chin over
the bar, or run a lap around the track without puking. And always the
last pick for dodge-ball.


Or is it that you don't like the idea of a liberal education because
it's 'liberal'?

A liberal Arts degree is basically useless if making serious money is
one of your goals. Seen on a bumper sticker: "I have a Liberal Arts
degree, Do you want fries with that?"_


Well if it's on a bumper sticker then it -must- be true!






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From: (Dave=A0Hall)
On Wed, 18 May 2005 14:56:11 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:54:03 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote in
:
Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and


expose just why these answers that you gave


are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you


were in the military in the mid 80's, then


worked for a while. Then you went back to


school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits)

"Yep. Tarheel U. has (had?) a program set up for jarheads in Camp
Lejeune."


and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.


"Dave would know that already if he actually attended college."


Heck, you can earn a college "degree" these days without ever setting a
foot in a classroom.

But 20 years ago, that just wasn't the case.

That's not what you said. Let's take a look at what you said, again....

Now a BS degree program requires a 4 year

course study at a minimum.



Again,,no it doesn't.


You had a certain amount of credits that you

had to earn, and a required course curriculum.


And many of those credits can often be earned on the job..

Yes, it was possible to do it in less than four

years,



You're not a bit self-contradictory,,you're lenty self-contradictory.

but that required an overly ambitious

fast-paced schedule. Most people are not up

for that.


Yea, your view of your fellow man has always been one of disdain and
beneath yourself.

Night school allowed people to avoid many of

the "nonsense" courses, which were unrelated
to your major, that the full time day programs

usually required you to take. But the people

who took the night school route usually were,

like me, working full time during the day, and

could not take as many courses per semester

and, consequently, it could take close to 8

years to earn the B.S.

Dave Hall

N3CVJ

"Sandbagger"


You were wrong.

On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:11:20 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:


You were wrong.

Possibly, in an extreme case. But I was using standard norms (Which is
4 years) to base my timeline on. Not many people have what it takes
(Both from an academic and emotional standpoint) to complete a true 4
year program in less time.


But even if I was wrong and Frank earned his degree a year earlier, it
doesn't change much of what I put down on the timeline, and doesn't
change the suspicion that Frank has been a little too restless for the
time that he had.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

From: (Dave=A0Hall)
On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:11:20 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:
You were wrong.

Possibly, in an extreme case.



Yea,,,the majority of times you are wrong are the result of your most
extreme -and- uninformed positions.



But I was using

standard norms (Which is 4 years) to base my
timeline on.


If it's completed in less than four years, there is nothing standard
about it.

Not many people have what it

takes (Both from an academic and emotional

standpoint) to complete a true 4 year program

in less time.




It's happening all over America and is much more prevalent than you
know.

But even if I was wrong and Frank earned his

degree a year earlier, it doesn't change much

of what I put down on the timeline,



Only by a year or so,,which makes a huge impact on your original claim.

and doesn't

change the suspicion that Frank has been a

little too restless for the time that he had.


Any suspicion is yours.


Dave

"Sandbagger"

N3CVJ


I'll wave a hand to your call this weekend. If you monitor the dial, you
may even hear it.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:54:03 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:

Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits) and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.

For engineering? We're not talking about liberal arts here.

In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.

Name them. And also list what the student has to do in order to cram 4
years worth of work and study into "less than" 4 years.

A B.S. degree requires a certain amount of credits and certain
required courses. So either you have to take more classes in less
time, or you are somehow "getting around" certain required classes.
That starts to bring up Frank's earlier analogy of the "new" 2 year
Bachelor's degree, and how the "old" 4 year degree would be worth more
by virtue of more time spend in the classroom.


Dave
"Sandbagger"