In article ,
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
rickman wrote:
Yes, I am in the US. The radio will be used to support marine
communications which is legal by my understanding.

Not unless you have a license. Otherwise you risk a $10,000 fine.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ship_stations#
Using Hand-Held Marine VHF Radios on Land


Am I the only one who doesn't think a kayak on the Chesapeake would
be considered "a ship" and that none of this is relevant to what
he wants to do? Seems like a task for GMRS to me.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

On 9/3/2013 1:41 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
In article ,
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
rickman wrote:
Yes, I am in the US. The radio will be used to support marine
communications which is legal by my understanding.

Not unless you have a license. Otherwise you risk a $10,000 fine.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ship_stations#
Using Hand-Held Marine VHF Radios on Land


Am I the only one who doesn't think a kayak on the Chesapeake would
be considered "a ship" and that none of this is relevant to what
he wants to do? Seems like a task for GMRS to me.

bill


Bill,

I'm not sure about that - it would depend on the FCC's definition of
"ship". Nothing I've seen indicates it has to be a big boat on a
navigable waterway; for instance a 20' fishing boat on a large inland
lake might be considered a "ship".

I agree GMRS is one way to go - but the limited range of such equipment
is what he's trying to solve.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 9/3/2013 2:10 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/3/2013 1:41 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
In article ,
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
rickman wrote:
Yes, I am in the US. The radio will be used to support marine
communications which is legal by my understanding.

Not unless you have a license. Otherwise you risk a $10,000 fine.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ship_stations#

Using Hand-Held Marine VHF Radios on Land


Am I the only one who doesn't think a kayak on the Chesapeake would
be considered "a ship" and that none of this is relevant to what
he wants to do? Seems like a task for GMRS to me.

bill


Bill,

I'm not sure about that - it would depend on the FCC's definition of
"ship". Nothing I've seen indicates it has to be a big boat on a
navigable waterway; for instance a 20' fishing boat on a large inland
lake might be considered a "ship".

I agree GMRS is one way to go - but the limited range of such equipment
is what he's trying to solve.

A friend who is a serious kayaker has been on the bay a number of times
when he communicates with the large cargo ships (like when he is doing a
crossing for example). They always address him as "Captain" Dubside.
He finds that amusing.

There are a number of reasons why VHF is used, the main one is for the
ability to send out a distress call that is likely to be received.
Where I have a house at Lake Anna, VA, the same is not true, I want to
be the first shore station which monitors channel 16.

--

Rick

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
In article ,
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
rickman wrote:
Yes, I am in the US. The radio will be used to support marine
communications which is legal by my understanding.

Not unless you have a license. Otherwise you risk a $10,000 fine.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ship_stations#
Using Hand-Held Marine VHF Radios on Land


Am I the only one who doesn't think a kayak on the Chesapeake would
be considered "a ship" and that none of this is relevant to what
he wants to do? Seems like a task for GMRS to me.

bill

While GMRS or amateur radio might be a better solution, there is no
minimum size for a "ship".



--
Jim Pennino

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

In article ,
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
rickman wrote:
Yes, I am in the US. The radio will be used to support marine
communications which is legal by my understanding.

Not unless you have a license. Otherwise you risk a $10,000 fine.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ship_stations#
Using Hand-Held Marine VHF Radios on Land


Am I the only one who doesn't think a kayak on the Chesapeake would
be considered "a ship" and that none of this is relevant to what
he wants to do? Seems like a task for GMRS to me.

I've looked at kayak magazines from time to time, and I've seen ads for
Marine band walkie talkies in them, so I'd say it's suitable.

This isn't the old days, when "marine band" meant 2 to 3MHz, a long
antenna and expensive and bulky equipment. The addition of the VHF marine
band was to make it more accessible. The commercial ships stayed at HF
(and paid the money to make the transition to SSB), but a lot of pleasure
boaters got radio as a result of the VHF marine band. Now it's even
simpler, you apparently don't need a license. A kayaker might have as
much need for radio as a yacht, and solid state has made it easy, a hand
held so you don't need a permanent installation or high cost.

Yes, other services probably would work here, they don't have restrictions
agains use on the water.

But, I was just near a lock a few weeks ago, and while I don't think the
boats were using radio to contact the lock, I would assume the lock has
marine band radio installed. So a kayaker coming along (and I've seen
taht there) wouldn't have the ability to contact the lock if they had CB
or GMRS or FRS or MURS, but if they had a cheap VHF Marine band handheld,
they could, and the fact that they don't need a license anymore for use in
the boat would seem to indicate this is completely valid.

Michael

In article ple.org,
Michael Black writes:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2013, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

In article ,
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
rickman wrote:
Yes, I am in the US. The radio will be used to support marine
communications which is legal by my understanding.

Not unless you have a license. Otherwise you risk a $10,000 fine.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ship_stations#
Using Hand-Held Marine VHF Radios on Land


Am I the only one who doesn't think a kayak on the Chesapeake would
be considered "a ship" and that none of this is relevant to what
he wants to do? Seems like a task for GMRS to me.

I've looked at kayak magazines from time to time, and I've seen ads for
Marine band walkie talkies in them, so I'd say it's suitable.

And i can show oyu hiking magazines with ads for aircraft ELT beacons
for hikers to carry in case they get lost. Don't confue reality with
marketing or sales. Remember, for most of this stuff, selling it isn't
illegal, using it for the advertised purpose is.

kayakers may be able to use a radio, but I hardly expect that makes them
a "ship". Even the navy has vehicles much larger than kayaks that are
craft and not ships.


This isn't the old days, when "marine band" meant 2 to 3MHz, a long
antenna and expensive and bulky equipment. The addition of the VHF marine
band was to make it more accessible. The commercial ships stayed at HF
(and paid the money to make the transition to SSB), but a lot of pleasure
boaters got radio as a result of the VHF marine band. Now it's even
simpler, you apparently don't need a license. A kayaker might have as
much need for radio

Having kayaked, I don't seriously think so, but I'll let you have that one.

as a yacht, and solid state has made it easy, a hand
held so you don't need a permanent installation or high cost.

Yes, other services probably would work here, they don't have restrictions
agains use on the water.

Like cellphones.


But, I was just near a lock a few weeks ago, and while I don't think the
boats were using radio to contact the lock, I would assume the lock has
marine band radio installed. So a kayaker coming along (and I've seen
taht there) wouldn't have the ability to contact the lock if they had CB
or GMRS or FRS or MURS, but if they had a cheap VHF Marine band handheld,
they could, and the fact that they don't need a license anymore for use in
the boat would seem to indicate this is completely valid.


Well, as far as I know it costs money to traverse a lock on a real
waterway (like the St. Lawrence) so the kayaker is going to have
to get out and talk to the lock guys cause I doubt he has an account
like a shipping company would. Personally, I can't imagine sharing a
lock with one of those big ships in something as small as a kayak
and I doubt they let you have the lock to yourself.

In any event what the original poster wants to do just isn't legal
and all the grousing about why not isn't going to change that.

Cellphones still look like the most practical to me.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
| and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include std.disclaimer.h

On 9/5/2013 3:20 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
In article ple.org,
Michael Black writes:
I've looked at kayak magazines from time to time, and I've seen ads for
Marine band walkie talkies in them, so I'd say it's suitable.

And i can show oyu hiking magazines with ads for aircraft ELT beacons
for hikers to carry in case they get lost. Don't confue reality with
marketing or sales. Remember, for most of this stuff, selling it isn't
illegal, using it for the advertised purpose is.


Are you sure these are aircraft ELT's? There are personal ones also,
made especially for hikers. They are perfectly legal.

kayakers may be able to use a radio, but I hardly expect that makes them
a "ship". Even the navy has vehicles much larger than kayaks that are
craft and not ships.


That doesn't mean they can't use marine radios. There are lots of
people who have small fishing boats (i.e. 21') which (legally) have
marine radios. I don't think those are considered "ships".


This isn't the old days, when "marine band" meant 2 to 3MHz, a long
antenna and expensive and bulky equipment. The addition of the VHF marine
band was to make it more accessible. The commercial ships stayed at HF
(and paid the money to make the transition to SSB), but a lot of pleasure
boaters got radio as a result of the VHF marine band. Now it's even
simpler, you apparently don't need a license. A kayaker might have as
much need for radio

Having kayaked, I don't seriously think so, but I'll let you have that one.


I can see where a kayaker could have a need for a radio. The biggest
problem I could see is keeping the radio dry.

snip




But, I was just near a lock a few weeks ago, and while I don't think the
boats were using radio to contact the lock, I would assume the lock has
marine band radio installed. So a kayaker coming along (and I've seen
taht there) wouldn't have the ability to contact the lock if they had CB
or GMRS or FRS or MURS, but if they had a cheap VHF Marine band handheld,
they could, and the fact that they don't need a license anymore for use in
the boat would seem to indicate this is completely valid.


Well, as far as I know it costs money to traverse a lock on a real
waterway (like the St. Lawrence) so the kayaker is going to have
to get out and talk to the lock guys cause I doubt he has an account
like a shipping company would. Personally, I can't imagine sharing a
lock with one of those big ships in something as small as a kayak
and I doubt they let you have the lock to yourself.


It depends on the lock (and the waterway). Some do not charge for small
craft, others do.

In any event what the original poster wants to do just isn't legal
and all the grousing about why not isn't going to change that.

Cellphones still look like the most practical to me.

bill


If the cellphone service around Kent Island is solid, then I would agree
with you. I know it is good along Route 50, but haven't ventured that
far off of it. And I've definitely not gone around the island in a
kayak or any other boat

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

In article ,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/5/2013 3:20 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

And i can show oyu hiking magazines with ads for aircraft ELT beacons
for hikers to carry in case they get lost. Don't confue reality with
marketing or sales. Remember, for most of this stuff, selling it isn't
illegal, using it for the advertised purpose is.

Are you sure these are aircraft ELT's? There are personal ones also,
made especially for hikers. They are perfectly legal.

Yeah, it's surprising if companies are trying to sell ELTs to hikers
given that Spot units were designed especially for hikers and, as you
say, are perfectly legal for them to use. I suppose there could be
some ELT companies that don't want to cede the market to Spot and
thus are continuing to try to sell to hikers, but it's unfortunate
if magazines are letting those run ads for products knowing full well
that they'll be used illegally.


Patty

On 9/5/2013 7:49 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
In article ,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/5/2013 3:20 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

And i can show oyu hiking magazines with ads for aircraft ELT beacons
for hikers to carry in case they get lost. Don't confue reality with
marketing or sales. Remember, for most of this stuff, selling it isn't
illegal, using it for the advertised purpose is.

Are you sure these are aircraft ELT's? There are personal ones also,
made especially for hikers. They are perfectly legal.

Yeah, it's surprising if companies are trying to sell ELTs to hikers
given that Spot units were designed especially for hikers and, as you
say, are perfectly legal for them to use. I suppose there could be
some ELT companies that don't want to cede the market to Spot and
thus are continuing to try to sell to hikers, but it's unfortunate
if magazines are letting those run ads for products knowing full well
that they'll be used illegally.


Patty



Spot is not the only ELT legal to use by hikers.

Again - are you sure the advertised ELTs are aircraft? What makes you
think they are?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.

==================

On 9/5/2013 3:20 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

In any event what the original poster wants to do just isn't legal
and all the grousing about why not isn't going to change that.

I don't think that has been established yet. I think there is an
opportunity for a license for a shore station. What I'm not clear on is
whether this has to be a fixed station or if it can be mobile. I know
the FCC often has different regulations for the two. I have also seen a
different license for shore use of a hand held unit (unless I am
confusing the two). I don't think the issue is that it *is* illegal,
but rather just how I would justify my use and exactly what the
restrictions will be.


Cellphones still look like the most practical to me.

That is because you aren't familiar with the area and likely aren't
familiar with most areas where people often kayak. Cell phones work
well in cities and near major roads. Other places the coverage can be
spotty or non-existent. Much of the Chesapeake bay has no cell coverage
regardless of what the coverage maps say. I know this from
experience... and my carrier is Verizon. Lake Anna is not much
different, more people, but not a lot more.

--

Rick