"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
cl wrote:
"robert casey" wrote in message
ink.net...

The biggest problem with most is "laziness". Maybe you never will use
it again. There are many things you learn in life and may never use
again, unless you plan to play on Jeopardy. Many people learned the
skeletal system in health class, microorganisms in Biology class. It
doesn't mean they use it now. Probably forgot it as soon as they
graduated.

Guess that explains Creationism. They either forgot or just
never did get biology class. And get upset when science
contradicts a trivial off topic section of the Bible.
But there is hope that some people will "get it" and
be able to do something with it. Of course the school
or FCC has to pick and choose what the kids should try
to learn. Spending less time on European medieval kings and
more on Vietnam would make sense, as modern governments are
no longer kings sitting around in castles getting bored
and deciding to have wars for the fun of it. Well, today kings
are called "dictators" anyway. Now to bring this back to
ham radio, is requiring code worth the time prospective
hams would have to spend on it, or maybe more theory should
be asked for today?

I seriously doubt that the FCC would increase code speed for
extras. The medical wavier issue would crop up again, and
the FCC found that to be a PITA. Besides it would be hard
for the FCC to tell old extras from newer extras as IIRC they
didn't keep track of who was who as old extras came up for
renewal.


I'm not so sure "more" theory is the answer either. Used to be, you HAD
to know electronics when you went for the exams. NO ONE told you what
was on the exams. Then some lazy ******* got some political pull and they
started to dumb down the theory and put "ALL" possible questions and
answers in a book - for someone to read and recall.

Almost all standardized testing is done that way these days. Actually I
don't know of any that isn't


Testing is one thing, "studying"' is another. Most "tests" don't give you
the answers in a book. Rather it is a conglomeration of books which a person
has had to read to ascertain the knowledge. IF it is coming to that, then it
is no wonder this country is dumbing down.

That isn't teaching anyone - anything. Any idiot can learn that way, to
the extent needed. It doesn't do anything to reinforce it in their heads
as to what to do with it after. IF they make it more theory, then they'll
just make the "idiot" books cover it, and again, you'll have a bunch of
people who learned A, B, C or D, not the real meat and potatoes of
Electronics.

I have never been able to see the difference between reading a book that
contains the answers to questions, and reading a question pool. Both are
entered into my memory the same way. Did you know the answers are often
scrambled, that is that the letter answer on the test is not the letter
answer in the pool?



Those books do not cover electronics in great detail. They gloss over
subjects. There was a time you had to "build" a working circuit - to pass.
Yes, I'm well aware that the answers are mixed up in the test pools as
opposed to the books. Back when Heathkit was in business, they had books for
each class of license. Those books had a similar pattern, but they drilled
stuff into your head. They seemed to explain things a lot better and in more
detail. Maybe I'm just too used to the "learning" methods of yesteryear.

I've seen them come away and not know what a fuse does or some of
simplest of schematic symbols they "should" know.

I've been in the field for a long time, and there are some things that
slip me once in a while. Do you help these folks when they make a newbie
mistake?


I try to help! And yes, as we age, we do forget things. I used to have
several dozen frequencies memorized and as to service. I'm lucky if I can
recall 10 of them - now. I'm sure there are symbols people can forget. But
my example of the fuse, it is sad when you don't know what a fuse is for!
That is like the most basic principle.

Give me a break. Those books today teach them NOTHING. They're nothing
more than the sugar coating of it all. Just enough to get by and HOPE
they plan to pursue it further on their own, which MOST - DO NOT. Again,
due to LAZINESS.

Wow! I've got a copy of the "Now You're Talking" book. A person would have
to work pretty hard do learn nothing from that.


The Now Your Talking - Book, is probably one of if not "thee" only in depth
books out there at this time. I was referring - and should have been a bit
more specific, to the question and answer guides with something like a 2
sentence explanation of a procedure, theory, etc. In my opinion, they don't
teach a thing. They just provide the questions and answers. Study it long
enough, you'll get enough memorized to pass, yes... but then you're stuck
because you know little "background". I believe it used to be, if a person
had the minimum of an Advanced license, he/she could use that as somewhat of
a credential for a job in electronics. Now, "I" wouldn't dare think of
hiring anyone with just having used the Q/A books. That is my opinion - for
what it is worth.

You're right about the History though, not to lay so much on the past,
but work on current affairs. Past is good, but often TOO much time is
spent on it. That stuff is building blocks to some extent, history does
have a propensity to repeat itself, so you can't "ignore" it as a whole,
but spending say a week learning about King Arthur just doesn't get it. I
recall our teacher trying to drill **** in our heads about Genghis Khan
(sp?). I could give a **** less what he did. What I DID come to ignore
and have a need for later in life, was that stuff covered in Health
class. I ended up using it a few years out of school.
I wished then I had paid more attention to it. So, I had to "relearn"
most of it. Some things DO have their uses.

As to code, actually, it isn't so bad to know - really.

Morse code is VERY good to know. Good enough that it should continue to be
a part of the test.


Think about it. You have sign language for deaf. IF you plan to talk to a
person who is deaf, you better learn it real fast. If you plan to
travel - you may need to learn some foreign language, even though most
can speak English now. Code "can" have benefits. We had 9 miners trapped
about a year ago. They communicated that there were nine, by 9 raps on
the pole stuck in the ground. Had someone in the ground and above ground
knew code, a more detailed description could have been issued. It could
have helped. Before they got the elevator in to get them, they had no
idea what "physical" shape the guys were in or any pending dangers under
the ground. Maybe you won't use code again once learned, but at some
point, it may save a life with the user's intervention. If you're in an
auto accident, down in a gully, you have a radio. The mic is broken, so
you can't talk. You could key the radio with a key or something and send
a message. Hopefully someone knowing code would hear it and be able to
let others know. There are many reasons people can give to "not" learn
code, but there are just as many as to it's benefits. If it saves only
one life, it is worth it.

Yup, one of so many reasons that Morse code is a good thing. Hams are all
about communication, and communications in all manner of situations. I
love the latest technology, but that technology is sometimes fragile.
Sometimes life and death, health and welfare might just come down to two
skilled operators who can make an old communications method on primitive
equipment sing its simple yet powerful song.

- Mike KB3EIA -

cl wrote:

Those books do not cover electronics in great detail. They gloss over
subjects. There was a time you had to "build" a working circuit - to pass.
Yes, I'm well aware that the answers are mixed up in the test pools as
opposed to the books. Back when Heathkit was in business, they had books for
each class of license. Those books had a similar pattern, but they drilled
stuff into your head. They seemed to explain things a lot better and in more
detail. Maybe I'm just too used to the "learning" methods of yesteryear.


http://www.heathkit.com/index.html is still in business, but its changed
from their old kit lineup.


The Now Your Talking - Book, is probably one of if not "thee" only in depth
books out there at this time. I was referring - and should have been a bit
more specific, to the question and answer guides with something like a 2
sentence explanation of a procedure, theory, etc. In my opinion, they don't
teach a thing. They just provide the questions and answers. Study it long
enough, you'll get enough memorized to pass, yes... but then you're stuck
because you know little "background". I believe it used to be, if a person
had the minimum of an Advanced license, he/she could use that as somewhat of
a credential for a job in electronics. Now, "I" wouldn't dare think of
hiring anyone with just having used the Q/A books. That is my opinion - for
what it is worth.


The local ham club is looking for people to take classes with "Now
Your Talking" rather than try to find people with any electronics
background. I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they
brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a half
way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus benches
of test equipment I had at Microdyne.


I never had any formal electronics training, yet I ws a broadcast
engineer, and a engineering tech for some products at Microdyne. I
learned it because I wanted to. I went to work part time in a TV shop at
13 after school and on Saturdays. When I was drafted I was tested to
prove I didn't know electronics but it backfired. I not only passed the
MOS test for Broadcast Engineer at Ft Knox, I was told I had received
the highest score on record for the test. These are some of the reasons
for my sig file. :-)


--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

From: "Michael A. Terrell" on Mon,Apr 18 2005 6:00 am

cl wrote:



The local ham club is looking for people to take classes with "Now
Your Talking" rather than try to find people with any electronics
background. I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they
brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a
half
way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus
benches
of test equipment I had at Microdyne.

I never had any formal electronics training, yet I ws a broadcast
engineer, and a engineering tech for some products at Microdyne. I
learned it because I wanted to. I went to work part time in a TV shop
at
13 after school and on Saturdays. When I was drafted I was tested to
prove I didn't know electronics but it backfired. I not only passed
the
MOS test for Broadcast Engineer at Ft Knox, I was told I had received
the highest score on record for the test. These are some of the
reasons
for my sig file. :-)

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael, be warned that you can now expect all sorts of
"hate mail" in public in response to what you've written.
:-)

Trust me on that if you haven't seen others' received
flak. :-)



Still a professional electron pusher (and long-time
electronics hobbyist) but one doesn't do it during
regular office hours. :-)

wrote:
From: "Michael A. Terrell" on Mon,Apr 18 2005 6:00 am

cl wrote:
The local ham club is looking for people to take classes with
"Now
Your Talking" rather than try to find people with any electronics
background.

"Now You're Talking" is for folks with no prior background. The
idea being to introduce those who DON'T have that prior background.

I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they
brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a
half
way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus
benches
of test equipment I had at Microdyne.

I am sure the offer was appreicated, Mike, it it IS an "Amateur
Radio" club. Do you have an aversion to getting licensed?

I never had any formal electronics training, yet I ws a broadcast
engineer, and a engineering tech for some products at Microdyne. I
learned it because I wanted to. I went to work part time in a TV
shop
at
13 after school and on Saturdays. When I was drafted I was tested
to
prove I didn't know electronics but it backfired. I not only passed
the
MOS test for Broadcast Engineer at Ft Knox, I was told I had
received
the highest score on record for the test. These are some of the
reasons
for my sig file. :-)

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael, be warned that you can now expect all sorts of
"hate mail" in public in response to what you've written.

Actually, not really Mike.

Welcome to RRAP, wherein our resident
"used-to-be-an-engineer-and-know-everything-better-than-you"
representitive, Len "Lennie" Anderson endears himself and makes friends
by calling them Nazis, thugs, elitists, etc, then crying foul when
"called" on it.

Trust me on that if you haven't seen others' received
flak.

Trusting Lennie Anderson on ANYthing is like letting Jack
Kevorkian make your health care decisions for you.

Do a Google on ", ",
(before winter 2001, I believe...)

Lennie's "reputation" for honesty, trustworthiness and
dependability are less than adequate.

Still a professional electron pusher (and long-time
electronics hobbyist) but one doesn't do it during
regular office hours.

You don't do it during OFF hours either, judging by your complete
lack of evidence on ANY "hobbyist" project other than listening to the
ATIS at LAX on your scanner.

Hope you'll get a ticket at one level or another, Mike...there's
a lot of fun to be had...If some club was rude to you, don't think it's
the whole tamale.

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:

"Now You're Talking" is for folks with no prior background. The
idea being to introduce those who DON'T have that prior background.


They insisted that everyone had to buy the book, no matter their
background.


I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they
brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a
half
way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus
benches
of test equipment I had at Microdyne.

I am sure the offer was appreicated, Mike, it it IS an "Amateur
Radio" club. Do you have an aversion to getting licensed?



No, but If I had to send CW I would have to use a computer keyboard
because my hands are stiff and I have almost no feeling left, other than
a constant dull pain. The ability to do delicate work at any reasonable
speed is gone. I have severe tinitus and get migraines easily so
listening to the heterodynes and static quickly trigger headaches so I
can't even think about long hours of listening to HF signals like I did
as a kid.


Welcome to RRAP, wherein our resident
"used-to-be-an-engineer-and-know-everything-better-than-you"
representitive, Len "Lennie" Anderson endears himself and makes friends
by calling them Nazis, thugs, elitists, etc, then crying foul when
"called" on it.


Thanks!

Trust me on that if you haven't seen others' received
flak.

Trusting Lennie Anderson on ANYthing is like letting Jack
Kevorkian make your health care decisions for you.

Do a Google on ", ",
(before winter 2001, I believe...)

Lennie's "reputation" for honesty, trustworthiness and
dependability are less than adequate.

Still a professional electron pusher (and long-time
electronics hobbyist) but one doesn't do it during
regular office hours.

You don't do it during OFF hours either, judging by your complete
lack of evidence on ANY "hobbyist" project other than listening to the
ATIS at LAX on your scanner.

Hope you'll get a ticket at one level or another, Mike...there's
a lot of fun to be had...If some club was rude to you, don't think it's
the whole tamale.


I have been around hams and radio clubs since the '60s. Some are the
salt of the earth, and others are a pain in the ass just like any other
large group of people. One club was strictly for the rich blowhards who
did nothing but argue about who spent the most o their radios, had the
biggest lightning farm in their back 40 but they never seemed to do
anything but argue with each other. A few other small groups were
interested in homebrewing a complete station, and had a good grounding
in electronics. You could have conversations about equipment, design
and operating the equipment and they knew what they were talking about.
I helped start the ham radio club at my high school in the late '60s.
The school system provided us with a small corner for the radios and a
teacher for a couple hours a week so we could be in the school after
hours. I got people to donate dead radios and TVs. I repaired them,
sold them and raised close to $1000 to buy parts and equipment. As soon
as the station was on the air the three licensed hams in the club spent
all their time either on the air tying up all the equipment or arguing
that it wasn't their fault no one else could use it because they didn't
have a license, rather than do like they promised and help others learn
the code and get their ticket. Not long after that I was drafted and
spent a couple years in the Army. After that I did two way radio
repair, broadcast and electronics manufacturing. These days the only
mode i would enjoy would be VHF or higher, and I'd probably spend more
time building radios than using them. BTW, the board of directors of
the local club has a couple retired EEs who look down on everyone else
who doesn't have a degree, or hasn't been on the air for teen years or
more. I know a number of local hams who dropped out of the club and
gave up on ham radio altogether because of club politics. The only thing
they seem to do right is have their small hamfest at their club
headquarters and not charge people for a ticket to enter to buy or
browse. I went to the last one to try to find some old friends and came
home with a full truckload of parts and damaged old equipment to repair
or use for parts. I ran into a half dozen people I had lost contact
with and had a little fun, till my legs gave out.

When I lived in Ohio I sold parts and reconditioned equipment at the
Dayton and Cincinnati hamfests. I made a lot of friends and had a lot
of repeat customers but I find very few hams in Florida who even know
which end of a soldering iron to pick up. I had on guy yelling at me at
the last hamfest I sold at because I had computer cable and connectors,
but they weren't assembled. He was yelling, The day I can't buy what I
need already assembled, is the day i sell my station. I politely
suggested he sell it right away and do other hams a big favor by getting
off the air.



73

Steve, K4YZ

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
cl wrote:

The local ham club is looking for people to take classes with "Now
Your Talking" rather than try to find people with any electronics
background. I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they
brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a
half
way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus
benches
of test equipment I had at Microdyne.

That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF
tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical
points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a
communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure
there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham
tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even
in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul
of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they
ever were. In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.

In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in
an offer to "help".

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

w3rv

wrote:

That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF
tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical
points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a
communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure
there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham
tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even
in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul
of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they
ever were.


Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not
designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine
article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in
dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the
unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of
their projects.


In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.


The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs. Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years. Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment. A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?


I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.


In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in
an offer to "help".

w3rv

Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at. As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)



A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better than
spending hours on the air to me. Different strokes?

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

wrote:

That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF
tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical
points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a
communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure
there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham
tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even
in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul
of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they
ever were.



Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not
designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine
article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in
dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the
unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of
their projects.



In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.



The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs. Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years.

I like the modern equipment, but hollow state equipment is simply cool.
Now that I have my main station set up, I'm going to start putting
together some old tube rigs. Oh yeah!


Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment. A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?


I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Mike, if I may be blunt, that is a pretty ****ty club. Pardon my French!



In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in
an offer to "help".

w3rv


Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at.

AS I said, a poor excuse for a club.....

As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)



A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better than
spending hours on the air to me. Different strokes?

Different strokes indeed. The ARS has room for many different types. It
sounds as if we would get along just fine.

I'll bet you felt just darn good when you got to help that fellow.

Sounds to me as if you *have* found your place in the hobby. Seems like
a good one to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs. Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years.

I like the modern equipment, but hollow state equipment is simply cool.
Now that I have my main station set up, I'm going to start putting
together some old tube rigs. Oh yeah!

Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment. A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?


I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Mike, if I may be blunt, that is a pretty ****ty club. Pardon my French!


I wasn't impressed by them.

Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at.

AS I said, a poor excuse for a club.....


I gave up on them and decide I don't want to join them. I offered to
help plan the next hamfest and maintain a E-mail list for them. They
asked if I had the money to pay the year's dues first, then told me,
"Real hams will know about it, anyway"

A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better than
spending hours on the air to me. Different strokes?

Different strokes indeed. The ARS has room for many different types. It
sounds as if we would get along just fine.

I'll bet you felt just darn good when you got to help that fellow.


Yes, it was a good day at the bench. Much better than some whining
CBer who bitched at paying $7.50 to put a plug on their third microphone
that month.

Sounds to me as if you *have* found your place in the hobby. Seems like
a good one to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Yes, I've always enjoyed the equipment more than using it, and I have
lost interest in getting a station on the air so I'll keep collecting
and repairing old gear as long as I'm able to do it. I have a couple
kids who are supposed to help me clean out my shop this summer so i can
see how much equipment I can salvage. I still have the benches wrapped
in plastic from last year's hurricanes. I pray they miss us this year.
Three in my area were just too much.


I have a couple websites, but no good pictures of the three shop
buildings to put up, yet. Maybe I can do it this fall.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
wrote:


Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not
designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine
article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in
dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the
unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of
their projects.

Been there, did that. I built my first SW receiver from junk parts I
picked up along Radio Row in Philly. Radio Merit Badge booklet in hand
circa 1950. Things have changed a bit since then though . . . (?!)

In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play
equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.


The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals

Maybe it's happened but personally I've never heard of an instance of
anyone with a broken mainstream radio not being able to fix it or get
it fixed because the manuals and/or the schematics couldn't be located.
Parts are another story but that's SOP. Try to buy all the parts for a
1980 Ford from a dealer.

really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs.

All commodity widgets have design lifetimes particularly when they are
based in the fast-moving field of electronics Japanese and otherwise.
But there are tens of thousands of 20-year-old pieces of complex ham
gear still regularly on the air. I can't imagine why you would expect
any more than that for the service life of chunks of entertainment
electronics.

Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years. Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment.
A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component
is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?

I have no idea but a buddy of mine has an IC-781 xcvr which cost him
over $6k 18 years ago and it's color LCD display still works as well as
it did out-of-the-box. Boeing is replacing the conventional instruments
in it's airliner panels with color LCD panels which better last 20
years and more or Boeing is gonna get spanked plenty.

I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all
their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told
me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Are you kidding? That's nuts. With all due respect I'd like to hear the
other side of that one.

In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your
offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their
radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken
radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any
interest in
an offer to "help".

w3rv

Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't
have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of
my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair
business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at.

Makes no sense at all, I'd leap on an offer like that if I needed acess
to an RF bench because I'm really ill-equipped in this area. Must be
something in their water.

As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)

Yeah, RIGHT . . ! Whoosh: Thud. So re-up, Rumsfeld is offering bonuses.


A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had
lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me
that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the
only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it
down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the
receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better
than
spending hours on the air to me.

Nice job. Could not agree more.

In a contorted way it appears that thee and me are basically the same
basic breed of radio alley cat. Bear with me here. It's a tale. I got
into ham radio over a half century because I wanted to move up from
SWLing and just reading National Geographic as a kid to get on the air
and communicate with others in foreign places. I'm still at it and in
my mind the magic of DXing the HF airwaves hasn't diminished a bit.

Here's part of the convergence: For the most part I simply can't stand
most neighborhood radio clubs for all the reasons you've cited recently
here and there in this NG. The poltics, the general clulessness, the
rambling disorganization, the lack of interest in my particular hot
buttons, etc. So I don't bother with 'em.

Different strokes?

You bet. I found my "cure" for the local radio clubs many years ago.
I'm a member of a wide-area regional ham club which is tightly focused
of HF DXing and DX contesting, a bunch who have the same narrow
interests I have. Works for me, maybe the format would work for you.

There's some huge number of electronics hobbyists across the country
including hams who get their jollies from tube electronics. Since
you're in what amounts to "geezer alley" in central Florida I expect
that there is a higher concentration of "tube huggers"there than one
would find elsewhere in the country. If I had your interests and lived
where you do I'd seriously consider poking around the area for others
of your ilk to clump with and form some sort of club centered on tube
radio, etc.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

w3rv