"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of
course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the
test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination


That's what you ask in here for! There are VEs in here, myself included -
who can give guidance to those who ask.

cl

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of
course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the
test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination


VEs can accommodate you if special testing is needed - BUT - if "special
equipment" is needed, it is up to the examinee to provide it - the VEs are
not liable for that. All Handicapped applicants "should" call ahead to make
special arrangements so that any extra VE team members if needed - can be
there to assist, or whatever other needs - can be met. For example, if I
have a blind applicant, which I had - I can't read his test to him in the
sitting of others taking the exams. That would be distracting. We instead -
gave this person - his exam - after the others were done. "We" did not have
any "Braille" equipment. I'm not even sure if such equipment exists which
would have read the text to him - if fed in. IF so, it would have been up to
him to supply it. Another case required an hour or so of prior preparation
of materials and equipment. We've had other cases where special needs had to
be met, but again - it was by prior arrangement. There is no other way to do
it. For them to just show up - we simply wouldn't have been able to
accommodate them. I don't know of any VEs who would shy away from testing
the handicapped, but you have to work with them too. They don't know your
problems until you tell them. Then - they can work with you to get you
through the exam process. Even if you failed, they will most likely - now
knowing of you and your condition - offer to help you learn it for the next
time. Maybe even help set up a station.

IF you have a tone problem as I've seen the example given, it could take
some time and equipment to get "a" tone for you to be entirely comfortable
with. IF for some reason - the computer can't do it, then perhaps a taped
exam fed through a mixer to acquire the proper tone. OR maybe even a test -
sent by a code practice oscillator set to a pitch - suitable. The code test
may have to be broken down to allow the person to absorb the sound if they
can't "hear" it properly. In this case, a CPO would work with a buzzer - to
"feel" the characters - as an example. Perhaps - light flashing - if the
tones are not able to be heard at all. Any number of issues could be
prevalent and though there are ways to deal with them, it would be hard
pressed to try and do it with a "walk in" handicapped applicant. Walk in -
in case your not aware - means unannounced - in regard to Ham exams.

cl

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"cl" wrote in message
o.verio.net...

I hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how
much time they were given to get the code down. I think
they had to "Cram".

Navy RM "A" School, the basic school which trained Navy Radiomen, was
13-weeks long. Morse practice was 3 hours per day, 4 days per week, but
students could come in after-hours for additional practice. Graduation
requirement was to be able to copy 5-letter coded groups at 18WPM for 10
minutes, with 3 uncorrected errors allowed.

73, de Hans, K0HB


Thanks!

cl

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:

Sorry, according to many in here you have to approach it as
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE!!!

Actually, Lennie, YOU are the only one making that assertion.

Nope, in-between homosexual and pedophilia inuendo, you have made
such
assertions. So that makes lie #25.

Then here's yet another chance for you to prove yourself, Brain,
and provide SOME sample of a post I have EVER made that asserts that
ANYthing having to to with Amateur Radio must be approched as the "MOST
IMPORTANT THING" in ANYone's life.

You said it exists. Let's see it.

Steve, K4YZ

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

cl wrote:

Pure laziness. Licenses
should be "earned" not given away. People are least likely to respect

something "given" to them. The bands are already showing signs of
deterioration from people who just don't care.

cl

So how is Bruce?


Bruce? "I" don't know of any "Bruce".............. Being my message was
included, I have to think you were asking me.

cl

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
cl wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

cl wrote:


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


cl wrote:




which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a
few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get
to 5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a
lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Ok.... It took "me" 2 weeks, I know others who learned it quickly, but I
can't provide a time frame. Yes, code "can" be harder for others to pick
up. I don't doubt that for a minute. Point is, you have to put one foot
in front of the other and stick with it, to get down the path to learn
it.

Yup. I must confess that I kind of drew you and some folks into this a
bit, because I have some significant hearing defects. Several 60+ db
notches,esp at the mid and higher frequencies and two separate tones of
tinnitis, a different frequency for each ear. I haven't had a quiet
moment for 30 years or more. When conversing with people, I read lips. I
understand vey much the situation of the fellow whose wife has notches
in her hearing.(conjecture alert) I would also say I suspect that the
constant noise in my ears has turned of parts of my brain that process
sound. And that is probably why I had such a hard time (conjecture alert
off) All I can say for teh folks with hearing problems is that study,
practice, and most importantly, relaxation during copying is the key.



I can only imagine what it must be like with a significant hearing
deficit. I can not and will not put anyone down who has such a problem.

It really isn't so bad. In fact, it is sometimes hilarious, when I badly
misinterpret what someone says. My family usually tells people of my
"predicament" before I meet them, when they have the chance, so they don't
think I'm whacked when I give them some off the wall response! 8^)

Though there are some sleepless nights when the ears are really
roaring....

So I just wear a headset to Op, and turn the sound up......

As to how they can learn code, there are many ways, but I guess it comes
down to whatever works best for that person. Not everyone's condition is
the same. I've tested folks with some difficulties, I followed the
guidelines as given by the VEC/FCC. There are ways to test folks with such
problems, but getting them to be able to learn the code - is the first
hurdle.


Does 6 months of constant hard effort indicate the desire to "stick with
it"?



Yes, I'd say it certainly does! You are to be commended for doing such.
You're not a "quitter". And from the sounds of things, you didn't "whine"
about it either.

Whining doesn't help anything. And I am proud of having learned Morse
code. Yes, that part was more difficult for me than some others.

Big deal - I'm not going to demand that everything be changed to suit me.
I fully support Morse code testing.


Many don't want to start, and whine about it without ever putting forth
effort. Hell, I know people who bitched about having to look at the
"basic" Q/A manual! One remark was "Do I "have" to learn all this?"
Another - "Do I "have" to read all these questions?" But yet they want a
license. Pure laziness. Licenses should be "earned" not given away.
People are least likely to respect something "given" to them.

Most of what you say , I agree with. If a person doesn't want to study,
they shouldn't have a license


The bands are already showing signs of deterioration from people who
just don't care.

I've heard of some pretty wild times long before things were "dumbed
down"!

- Mike KB3EIA -





Yeah, I know the bands started going to hell before that. Used to be I
bragged about Ham to people who wanted their kids to get into radio but
didn't want the CB garbage. I said Ham is clean. Today, you couldn't pay
me to advertise ham as being clean. It is NOT. That is sad..... It really
is. The exams test for proficiency in code, theory, rules and
regulations. They're not psychological tests to weed out all the riff
raff. IF such tests existed for Ham and all the other fields, maybe we'd
have a better world. There are people in every field, be it a hobby or
profession - who ruin it or at the very least - make it look bad for the
rest.

I don't know if you do PSK31 or not. But if you want to QSO with gentlemen
and gentlewomen, it is the place to go. I've yet to hear a curse or even
complaining gossip on that mode. The worst I ever heard was one ham
(deservedly) upbraiding another for a horribly overdriven and powerful
signal that was wreaking havoc with the rest of the segment. But even that
was tame by comparison with the rest of the bands. 20 is great for DX, and
80 is the place to go to ragchew.

And on psk31, I have no hearing problems at all, haha!

- Mike KB3EIA -

No as a matter of fact, I am not into PSK31. I've not really been on the Ham
bands for a while. Just recently I did start scanning them though. First
time in about a year. I'm waiting to do some more phone and yes - maybe even
a CW contact!!!!!

cl

Mike Coslo wrote:
bb wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

I've heard of some pretty wild times long before things were
"dumbed

down"!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike, I've been meaning to ask. Are you still sore at me for not
giving your grief about the balloon project?

HEH! Now you confused me Brian. But seriously, that you *didn't*
give
me grief was duly noted!

I've been stressing over
Steve's label of "antagonist" for not giving you grief for some
time
now. I'm such a terrible person. Hi!

Ohh, you know how newsgroups are.....

I know how they are, Mike!

They're populated by people who don't have the intestinal
fortitude to sign their names to their posts and they make up
allegations to try and hide behind.

Ask Brain where the Techs went. He insists that they were "chased
away", yet refuses to say who chased them away or where they went.
I've asked him repeatedly after he unequivocally stated they had.

Ask Brain where the "unlicensed devices" are. He insists that
"unlicensed devices" play a "major roll" in emergency communications.
He WON'T provide any evidence of it, but he insists it's true.

Brain has also recently asserted that ARES is "overblown", and
that it won't respond to "real disasters" due to the age of it's
membership. I've posted several news releases, all of them from within
the last 2 weeks, and Brain won't explain how it is ARES is "overblown"
when there's evidence to the contrary.

Those are just the recents ones...The Somalia horse is pretty
dead...He could never make that horse trot no matter how colorful a
jockey he put on it.

His "I've worked DXCC several times over" stories are cute, too...

Now his most current diversion is adding up non-existant "lies".
It just makes him look more feeble, but hey, it keeps him warm.

Keeps me warm too....from laughing so hard!

Steve, K4YZ

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

cl wrote:


which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a
few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test
to get
to 5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show
some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to
a
lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

You have a good point Mike. I have seldom had any problems with written
exams, but passing a Morse test was hell. Those of us who have had trouble
learning Morse have taken a lot of abuse in this group. You hit the nail on
the head when you said you wouldn't do the same if someone had trouble with
the theory.

wrote in news:1113743129.236382.299700
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:


Mel A. Nomah wrote:
"Hamguy" wrote in message
...

: http://www.hamwave.com/cgi-bin/index...iewnews&id=689

That link supposes that the fcc will delete the Morse requirement.

Other insiders suggest fcc will NPRM will delete Morse only for
General license, and will INCREASE the test to 20WPM for renewed Extra
class, downgrading all current "Extra Lite" licenses to resurrected
Advanced license (the second time this license has risen from the
ashes). ARRL giveaway program will be denied.

All it really says is that the FCC is working on an NPRM that may be
out as soon as next month or as late as July. That NPRM will obviously
contain what FCC wants to do as a result of WRC 2003 and the 18
restructuring petitions.

Once the NPRM becomes public, there will be a comment period, then a
reply comment period. Couple of months at least, maybe longer. Probably
the end of 2005 before comments close.

Then FCC will decide what to do and formulate a Report and Order. Last
time they did this it took almost a year. Which translates to fall
2006. Then a couple months before the new rules become effective -
maybe end of 2006.

Of course it could take even longer, or maybe a bit less. But I
wouldn't expect any changes before summer 2006 - and wouldn't be
surprised if it were summer 2007.

73 de Jim, N2EY


You're being a Jonah again, Jim. the announcement guesstimates all done
within a year, i.e. by spring '06. Sounds about right to me. Granted that
the comments about what the FCC might do (and the title of the post) were
all the poster's own, and not Hamwave's.

My own crystal ball guess is that the FCC will just delete the code test
and rearrange some subbands around this time next year. That's still much
longer than I originally thought.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
wrote:


Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not
designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine
article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in
dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the
unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of
their projects.

Been there, did that. I built my first SW receiver from junk parts I
picked up along Radio Row in Philly. Radio Merit Badge booklet in hand
circa 1950. Things have changed a bit since then though . . . (?!)

In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play
equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.


The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals

Maybe it's happened but personally I've never heard of an instance of
anyone with a broken mainstream radio not being able to fix it or get
it fixed because the manuals and/or the schematics couldn't be located.
Parts are another story but that's SOP. Try to buy all the parts for a
1980 Ford from a dealer.

really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs.

All commodity widgets have design lifetimes particularly when they are
based in the fast-moving field of electronics Japanese and otherwise.
But there are tens of thousands of 20-year-old pieces of complex ham
gear still regularly on the air. I can't imagine why you would expect
any more than that for the service life of chunks of entertainment
electronics.

Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years. Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment.
A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component
is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?

I have no idea but a buddy of mine has an IC-781 xcvr which cost him
over $6k 18 years ago and it's color LCD display still works as well as
it did out-of-the-box. Boeing is replacing the conventional instruments
in it's airliner panels with color LCD panels which better last 20
years and more or Boeing is gonna get spanked plenty.

I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all
their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told
me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Are you kidding? That's nuts. With all due respect I'd like to hear the
other side of that one.

In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your
offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their
radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken
radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any
interest in
an offer to "help".

w3rv

Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't
have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of
my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair
business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at.

Makes no sense at all, I'd leap on an offer like that if I needed acess
to an RF bench because I'm really ill-equipped in this area. Must be
something in their water.

As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)

Yeah, RIGHT . . ! Whoosh: Thud. So re-up, Rumsfeld is offering bonuses.


A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had
lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me
that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the
only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it
down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the
receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better
than
spending hours on the air to me.

Nice job. Could not agree more.

In a contorted way it appears that thee and me are basically the same
basic breed of radio alley cat. Bear with me here. It's a tale. I got
into ham radio over a half century because I wanted to move up from
SWLing and just reading National Geographic as a kid to get on the air
and communicate with others in foreign places. I'm still at it and in
my mind the magic of DXing the HF airwaves hasn't diminished a bit.

Here's part of the convergence: For the most part I simply can't stand
most neighborhood radio clubs for all the reasons you've cited recently
here and there in this NG. The poltics, the general clulessness, the
rambling disorganization, the lack of interest in my particular hot
buttons, etc. So I don't bother with 'em.

Different strokes?

You bet. I found my "cure" for the local radio clubs many years ago.
I'm a member of a wide-area regional ham club which is tightly focused
of HF DXing and DX contesting, a bunch who have the same narrow
interests I have. Works for me, maybe the format would work for you.

There's some huge number of electronics hobbyists across the country
including hams who get their jollies from tube electronics. Since
you're in what amounts to "geezer alley" in central Florida I expect
that there is a higher concentration of "tube huggers"there than one
would find elsewhere in the country. If I had your interests and lived
where you do I'd seriously consider poking around the area for others
of your ilk to clump with and form some sort of club centered on tube
radio, etc.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

w3rv