"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
: cl wrote:

:
: I have never been able to see the difference between reading a book
: that contains the answers to questions, and reading a question pool.
: Both are entered into my memory the same way.
:

You can't be serious! (And here I was under the impression you made you
living in an educational environment.) No wonder "Johnny can't read"!

The purpose of the examination is to determine if the prospective licensee
understands some things about amateur rules, about elementary transmitter
and receiver functions, basic electricity, amateur communications procedure,
and safety.

Knowing ahead of time the VERBATIM questions and VERBATIM correct answer
reduces the test to a simple test of memory. The applicant need not
UNDERSTAND a damned thing, but only have normally developed memorization
skills.

I have no problem with Q&A study aids containing sample questions which
guide the student through the appropriate study material, but the actual
VERBATIM examination material should NOT be available to the student
(applicant), or there is no reason to UNDERSTAND the material --- just
memorize the test.

73,
M.A.N.
--
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord,
make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."
- Voltaire

Mel A. Nomah wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
: cl wrote:

:
: I have never been able to see the difference between reading a book
: that contains the answers to questions, and reading a question pool.
: Both are entered into my memory the same way.
:

You can't be serious! (And here I was under the impression you made you
living in an educational environment.) No wonder "Johnny can't read"!

Yup, I do. And sorry, but I can read the book, or read the pool, and
get the same thing. The answers are just more verbose in the books.



The purpose of the examination is to determine if the prospective licensee
understands some things about amateur rules, about elementary transmitter
and receiver functions, basic electricity, amateur communications procedure,
and safety.

Sure.


Knowing ahead of time the VERBATIM questions and VERBATIM correct answer
reduces the test to a simple test of memory. The applicant need not
UNDERSTAND a damned thing, but only have normally developed memorization
skills.

The concept of "memorizing" the Q and A of say the Extra pool is
amusing. Especially when there is a little scrambling going on for the
answers.

Personally, I took the on-line tests, and those questions that I missed
were looked up. Mostly without reference to the question pool, except
for the ones for band edges. The band edges are rote memorization
anyhow. Then I went back and retook the tests until I aced them just
about every time. That was a lot easier than rote memorization of 800
(IIRC) some questions.

I have no problem with Q&A study aids containing sample questions which
guide the student through the appropriate study material, but the actual
VERBATIM examination material should NOT be available to the student
(applicant), or there is no reason to UNDERSTAND the material --- just
memorize the test.

Well, whatchya gonna do? The tests themselves are only the beginning,
be they the "super easy" tests administered today, or the "incredibly
hard" tests administered under the steely glare of an F.C.C. field agent
at the time when hams were real men and women.

I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about them
that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with
equipment and different condition than today.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Mel A. Nomah wrote:


Well, whatchya gonna do? The tests themselves are only the
beginning,
be they the "super easy" tests administered today, or the "incredibly

hard" tests administered under the steely glare of an F.C.C. field
agent
at the time when hams were real men and women.

I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about
them
that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with
equipment and different condition than today.

Hey, wait a minnit here . . we also had to walk uphill both ways to the
FCC offices in raging blizzards.

Ya WEENIES . . . grumble . .


- Mike KB3EIA -

w3rv

Hey, wait a minnit here . . we also had to walk uphill both ways to the
FCC offices in raging blizzards.

Ya WEENIES . . . grumble . .


And that was in the summer! I had to do a code sending
test at 5wpm at the old FCC field office in New York City
(I've heard the place is now condos).

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 02:41:32 GMT, robert casey wrote:

And that was in the summer! I had to do a code sending
test at 5wpm at the old FCC field office in New York City
(I've heard the place is now condos).

When the rats started to outnumber the people in that building,
something had to be done....

A shame - 641 Washington Street was a beautiful example of 1920s
Federal office buildings. A family friend who was my inspiration in
joining the Federal workforce worked there most of her career as a
secretary and then a claims examiner for the pre-OSHA Labor
Department - may she rest in peace.

I was in the FCC facilities there only six times - twice for amateur
exams, three times for commercial exams, and once to the office
(which was at the opposite end of the building from the exam rooms)
to pick up travel orders to my first duty post in San Francisco.

I still can't comprehend those old buildings as upscale condos....

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Phil Kane wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 02:41:32 GMT, robert casey wrote:

And that was in the summer! I had to do a code sending
test at 5wpm at the old FCC field office in New York City
(I've heard the place is now condos).

When the rats started to outnumber the people in that building,
something had to be done....

A shame - 641 Washington Street was a beautiful example of 1920s
Federal office buildings. A family friend who was my inspiration
in
joining the Federal workforce worked there most of her career as a
secretary and then a claims examiner for the pre-OSHA Labor
Department - may she rest in peace.

I was in the FCC facilities there only six times - twice for
amateur
exams, three times for commercial exams, and once to the office
(which was at the opposite end of the building from the exam rooms)
to pick up travel orders to my first duty post in San Francisco.

Maybe one of these days I'll get off my butt and see if I can find the
Philly Custom House where the FCC lived around here in it's glory days.


I still can't comprehend those old buildings as upscale condos....

Philly is *loaded* with 'em Phil. You'd have to see it to believe it.
The really pricey versions are those which are converted multi-story
waterfront warehouses on piers poking out into the river. When I was a
kid you took yer life into your hands when you went into those
waterfront areas. No more. Another big source of conversion properties
in the city is the huge old 6-10 story light manufacturing buildings
staffed by sweat-shop immigrant labor in the early 1900s. Out here in
the 'burbs the hot ticket conversions are the surviving ancient
(1700s-1800s) textile mills along the creeks most of which have been
chopped up into big bucks office space.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

w3rv

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

:
: I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about them
: that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with
: equipment and different condition than today.
:

No, the only thing harder was that those were just samples, and you had to
actually understand the underlying material because the question on the
examination would be different.

From your description of "take the online test until I can pass it, then
rush down to the VE session", I expect that you'd be another Len Anderson
under those conditions, on the outside looking in.

M.A.N.
--
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord,
make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."
- Voltaire

"Mel A. Nomah" wrote in message
link.net...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

:
: I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about them
: that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with
: equipment and different condition than today.
:

No, the only thing harder was that those were just samples, and you had to
actually understand the underlying material because the question on the
examination would be different.

From your description of "take the online test until I can pass it, then
rush down to the VE session", I expect that you'd be another Len Anderson
under those conditions, on the outside looking in.

M.A.N.
--
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord,
make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."
- Voltaire



I have yet, a couple samples of the "FCC" study guides from days gone by.
They told you what areas "may" be covered on their exams and a "typical"
question. For the most part, for each class, they were one side - of a 8.5 x
11 sheet. Not looking at them, I think one or two may have been 2 sides.
They did NOT divulge "actual" test content. You "had" to know electronics
and any rules and regulations when you went there or else you wasted a trip,
pure and simple. One class builds on the other, but back then, the tests got
a hell of a lot harder as you climbed the ladder. They were in some cases,
as tough as the Commercial exams. You couldn't get away with just memorizing
a bunch of answers in a Q/A guide. You were only fooling yourself if you
thought you could get away with that.

cl

Mel A. Nomah wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

:
: I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about them
: that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with
: equipment and different condition than today.
:

No, the only thing harder was that those were just samples, and you had to
actually understand the underlying material because the question on the
examination would be different.

But it wasn't harder, just different.

From your description of "take the online test until I can pass it, then
rush down to the VE session", I expect that you'd be another Len Anderson
under those conditions, on the outside looking in.

Well then you'd be wrong.

- Mike KB3EIA -

From: "Mel A. Nomah" on Mon,Apr 18 2005 4:28 pm


"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

:
: I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about
them
: that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with
: equipment and different condition than today.
:

No, the only thing harder was that those were just samples, and you
had to
actually understand the underlying material because the question on
the
examination would be different.

Fromyour description of "take the online test until I can pass it,
then
rush down to the VE session", I expect that you'd be another Len
Anderson
under those conditions, on the outside looking in.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, "Melanoma," I've been INSIDE the world of
electronics and radio for the last half century. Slightly
MORE than a half century. As a professional, that is.

Gave up trying to add an amateur radio license to the
old (1956 granted) First 'Phone license collection about
four decades ago (give or take). I thought it might be
nice to take it up again now in retirement, like for fun,
but U.S. amateur radio seems to have evolved into
SERIOUS BUSINESS! Everyone all uptight and demanding
absolute and instant obediance from all the Dill
Instructors swaggering about, trying to whack the
hobbyists into SHAPE for the SERVICE!!! :-)

I don't see where many are into ham radio for "fun" in
here. All are acting like RADDIO KOPS, complete with
shiny badges of RANK, etc. :-)

Good luck on your chemotherapy...