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Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
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Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
wrote in message oups.com... John, So, say I had a CW oscillator on the colorburst frequency. I'll shunt the output with a 50 ohm resistor to ground. I'll put a random wire at the top of the resistor. Basic equations yield P = (EE) / R If R is 50 Ohms and maximum output power is 1.7e-9 watts, then E is 4.1e-5 volts. So, would a measurement of 40 microvolts or less across the resistor be satisfactory? Thanks, The Eternal Squire I think it would be about 300 uV across 50 ohms ( I think you are off by about an order of magnitude). Yes, I think that would be okay. A good place to understand this stuff is on the ARRL site. Look into the BPL and RFI things there. Read everything you can find about this subject. If you research this thoroughly, you will find allies in the field, I'm sure. My intent here is not to discourage you in your project, but to encourage you to think critically. Always ask yourself why this has not been done before. Most of the time there is a reason, but sometimes (a small percentage of the time) it is because nobody has had an interest in the subject. But, you didn't ask for my philosophy. I sometimes get carried away. I apologize for that. Cheers and 73, John |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Paul,
Its my opinion, the fact that these childrens' homes are on Navajo Land is legally irrelevant. From what I understand, Native territories are jurisdictions having roughly equal standing to the states, but just like states are still subject to the Constitution and to Acts of Congress, such as the one authorizing the FCC and parts 15 and 97. As for using a pseudonym, I use that rather than my name or call for obvious reasons of personal safety for myself and my family. Cheers, The Eternal Squire On Jan 26, 10:38 pm, Paul W. Schleck wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In John Smith I writes: Paul W. Schleck wrote: ... I certainly hope Paul is an attorney, as if he speaks about the reservation, I hope he speaks with knowledge.I am not a lawyer. When faced with legal questions about my own operation, or when trying to help keep apparently honest and sincere people like "Eternal Squire" stay out of trouble, I defer to the true experts. Existing, compiled, and expert advice like that provided at the ARRL TIS site I previously mentioned would seem to be a good place to start. I also value the insight provided here by Usenet participants who are attorneys with experience in communications law. I would certainly defer to their input on this matter, if offered (*). I also ask myself if I am obeying the spirit as well as the letter of any law or regulation. I don't feel it's within the scope of good amateur practice, personal ethical conduct, or even just overall "good neighbor" guidelines to be focusing on alleged loopholes such as being on a Native American Reservation, in international waters, or an "educational project." Often such excuses are transparent, self-serving, and not borne out in actual legal practice, regulations, treaties, enforcement, etc. Unless I had a lot of legal resources at my disposal (pro bono counsel, etc.), I would probably not seek to try and make myself a legal test case, as some on the newsgroups seem bent on doing. I would hope that "Eternal Squire", whose post implies that he is a licensed radio amateur, is thinking along these same lines, also. I offered my layperson's advice in that context. Here is a paper which will demonstrate there is "quite a bit of controversy" over legality of 97 and 15 on reservations: http://www.fcc.gov/sptf/files/0801fcc.pdfI read the above transcript you provided. I note with interest that my friend, fellow ham, and Usenet peer Carl Stevenson (WK3C) was a member of this workshop. I'd certainly defer to his technical expertise. However, the gist I got from the transcript, and from asking legal experts, is that case law is mixed on the subject of whether what happens on a reservation is strictly an internal, tribal matter. That no one present at the workshop wanted to venture an authoritative answer doesn't meant that there aren't those involved in enforcement who could give one. Radio transmitters and casinos are given as principal examples where case law, practice, and jurisdictional agreements go against the assertion that on a reservation, U.S. law does not apply. Course, with some, an amateur license immediately makes them an authority in all areas ...It was a question about amateur radio, asked in an amateur radio newsgroup. I suggested that he seek expert advice, such as that summarized at the ARRL TIS web site I linked previously. No more, and no less. Warmest regards, JS(*) I did ask one of the experts in communications law that I know personally. He offered the following observations: "I would add something to the extent that you have been advised by a communications attorney with over 50 years' experience in FCC regulatory matters that unless there is a specific treaty granting a tribe authority to regulate amateur radio transmissions on a reservation, and there isn't, FCC law and jurisdiction prevail. There are agreements giving tribes authority to determine who may operate a broadcast station from a reservation, but the FCC must regulate the technical parameters (frequency, power, location) to be observed and grant the callsign and make all necessary international notifications. Similarly, in international waters or airspace, the country of registration of the vessel or aircraft retains jurisdiction, and any country may lodge a complaint of violation of the International Radio Regulations with the country of registration if that is the case. If the vessel or aircraft is 'unregistered', any country has the authority to blast it out of the water or the air, although that is a drastic measure. The International Radio Regulations do, however. oblige all countries to not condone or support any radio (or TV) broadcasting from international waters or airspace." As this seems to be drifting into a *.policy area, and not *.homebrew, I've set followups as appropriate. Feel free to override my default if you must. - -- Paul W. Schleck, K3FU /~pschleck/ Finger for PGP Public Key -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (SunOS) iD8DBQFFuuMd6Pj0az779o4RAidgAJ4tmvrsIgefuGREQz/Eqw20LljowACfRg1f glmhM6RbiJJcbgT3quj9GmM= =Dai7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
I had thought to start an unlicensed micro-power code practice net whose range would be limited to about a 30 mile radius, which is about the size of the local reservation right next to the school. What I want to do is provide each kid with a popcorn CW transceiver for the colorburst frequency (3579 khz), a key, a short random wire, and a battery. That way they could practice amongst themselves with myself as occasional net control. My question is this: so long as final output to the antenna is within the requirement of part 15 unlicensed operation, is part 15 unlicensed operation allowed within a band normally governed under part 97? Part 15 operation would easily cover a 30 mile radius on 80M. If no, I'll run the net under part 15 on the edge of the AM band near 160M. Thanks in advance, The Eternal Squire I have been thinking about this for a while before making this reply. I would strongly suggest looking at the lowfer band. 160Kc to 190Kc The limitations are relatively straight forward. Maximum length of feed line, and antenna are 15meters. Maximum power input to the final amp stage is 1W. No other real limitations besides the fact that out of band emissions have to be below a specific point. That is about a 50 foot long antenna. There isn't much of a chance that they will try to string one up longer than that, unless they were really industrious. And they can learn about antenna loading, to get a better transmitted signal/range. The one watt input power level is easy to determine. If the input is 10V then adjust the current to a maximum of 100mA. They can use any mode of communication they want. CW, AM, SSB, FM, PSK31, BPSK, MFSK The sky is the limit as for as modes. If they have computers, most of the digital modes can be implemented with soundcard based communications software that is available as freeware Look up "MULTIPSK" They can set up beacons for propagation checks, or talk to each other in real time. 30 miles is an easy distance to reach with basic loaded antennas. Especially with PSK31 and CW. It will allow them to learn how to build receiving antennas. And if they can't reach, or hear someone on the other side of the reservation, then it will allow them to learn the basics of traffic handling by the stations in the middle relaying information from one station to another. It will also teach them the basics of the narrower bandwidth/greater range relationship. With the low bandwidth BPSK, PSK31 modes, they will easily communicate across the reservation even if they can barely hear each other on voice. You can either get kit equipment for receiving or transmitting, which is widely available on line. Or you can design and build your own. If they are lucky, they may even hear stations, and beacons from hundreds of miles away. Or even thousands. There is nothing like the thrill of DX. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
N9WOS wrote:
I have been thinking about this for a while before making this reply. I would strongly suggest looking at the lowfer band. 160Kc to 190Kc The limitations are relatively straight forward. Maximum length of feed line, and antenna are 15meters. Maximum power input to the final amp stage is 1W. No other real limitations besides the fact that out of band emissions have to be below a specific point. That is about a 50 foot long antenna. There isn't much of a chance that they will try to string one up longer than that, unless they were really industrious. And they can learn about antenna loading, to get a better transmitted signal/range. The one watt input power level is easy to determine. If the input is 10V then adjust the current to a maximum of 100mA. They can use any mode of communication they want. CW, AM, SSB, FM, PSK31, BPSK, MFSK The sky is the limit as for as modes. If they have computers, most of the digital modes can be implemented with soundcard based communications software that is available as freeware Look up "MULTIPSK" They can set up beacons for propagation checks, or talk to each other in real time. 30 miles is an easy distance to reach with basic loaded antennas. Especially with PSK31 and CW. It will allow them to learn how to build receiving antennas. And if they can't reach, or hear someone on the other side of the reservation, then it will allow them to learn the basics of traffic handling by the stations in the middle relaying information from one station to another. It will also teach them the basics of the narrower bandwidth/greater range relationship. With the low bandwidth BPSK, PSK31 modes, they will easily communicate across the reservation even if they can barely hear each other on voice. You can either get kit equipment for receiving or transmitting, which is widely available on line. Or you can design and build your own. If they are lucky, they may even hear stations, and beacons from hundreds of miles away. Or even thousands. There is nothing like the thrill of DX. Yanno, that is damn good thinking. I haven't played in the lowfer freqs for ages. Regards, JS |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
If (mind you, IF) I was going to make a device that would bootleg a signal
over a 30 mile range, the LAST frequency I would pick is one that had a real good chance of messing up somebody's color TV set in that radius. Google on Mouser, crystal, and you will get HUNDREDS of cheap crystals that aren't going to be messing up anybody's home entertainment devices. You might also google for "emergency frequency" to keep away from the Coast Guard's "hit the red button" frequencies. If it twer me, I'd probably find a quiet spot on 80 meters for the little rugrats. Jim wrote in message oups.com... John, So, say I had a CW oscillator on the colorburst frequency. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
You can either get kit equipment for receiving or transmitting, which is
widely available on line. Or you can design and build your own. Maybe I should clarify one of my statements before someone calls me stupid. I mean easily modifiable equipment is widely available online. It isn't sold for Lowfer operation. Most heterodyne and direct conversion based short wave, receiving kits can be modified over to the LF band from 160 to 190kc On a 455kc heterodyne receiver, push the local oscillator down to 615 to 645 kc, and put a band pass network on the input peaked to the lowfer band, and you are done. Same thing can be done for SSB transmitter kits that use a fixed transmit IF |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
N9WOS wrote:
You can either get kit equipment for receiving or transmitting, which is widely available on line. Or you can design and build your own. Maybe I should clarify one of my statements before someone calls me stupid. I mean easily modifiable equipment is widely available online. It isn't sold for Lowfer operation. Most heterodyne and direct conversion based short wave, receiving kits can be modified over to the LF band from 160 to 190kc On a 455kc heterodyne receiver, push the local oscillator down to 615 to 645 kc, and put a band pass network on the input peaked to the lowfer band, and you are done. Same thing can be done for SSB transmitter kits that use a fixed transmit IF Only thing is, such low power xmitters, if designed and tuned to a "quiet" portion of the mw band allows anyone with a standard am radio to tune into and participate in ... Rip apart any old transistor radio and you have the necessary parts for the xmitter ... VLF receivers can be a tad bit expensive ... however, most am radios would easily be modified to VLF ... the patience of the elmer would be the only resource in question. Regards, JS |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Paul W. Schleck wrote:
... Personally, in nearly 17 years of participating on-line, I've never felt the need to use a pseudonym, or feared for my safety. However, I respect the reasonable personal choices of others in this regard. - -- 73, Paul W. Schleck, K3FU http://www.novia.net/~pschleck/ Finger for PGP Public Key Just goes to show ya, the world is still left with a lot of people who are of a good nature and would not wish harm on anyone ... Regards, JS |
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