Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Only thing is, such low power xmitters, if designed and tuned to a
"quiet" portion of the mw band allows anyone with a standard am radio to
tune into and participate in ...

Rip apart any old transistor radio and you have the necessary parts for
the xmitter ...

VLF receivers can be a tad bit expensive ... however, most am radios
would easily be modified to VLF ... the patience of the elmer would be
the only resource in question.

Regards,
JS

The first thing that came into my mind when I read that is.
Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"?

The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is
heavily polluted with RF noise.
The general coverage receiver I have, has a 200 Foot long antenna hooked to
it.
Night or day, It is hard to find a broadcast channel that isn't giving a
signal reading running from S5 to S9 even when you can't hear any traces of
a broadcast signal.
There is so many distant stations being heard at once that it turns into
indistinguishable noise.

And if you do catch a quiet channel, it only last for a few minutes, or
hours until propagation changes, and the noise level comes back up to
normal.

Once you drop off the edge of the AM band, the average noise level drops
down to almost nothing within a few Kc of the edge.

After you get past a certain grade of radio and RX antenna, you will not
gain any improvement because of the base noise level of the band. They would
basically be reduced to fighting the TX side of things, to try and stay
above the average noise level.

Can you say "CB a few years ago"?

The only reason the horrible noise level isn't apparent on most AM receivers
sold in stores, is because they are so insensitive that they can't hear even
relatively loud signals. That is why I almost consider it a waste of money
to buy a standard AM/FM radio that is currently on the market to listen to
AM. I have built crystal radios that are more sensitive on AM than some of
the high dollar AM/FM radios I have used.

A lot of AM/FM radios I see any more, don't even have an IF section, with IF
transformers. If you are lucky, they have a 455kc crystal filter, in a
section that can barely be called a IF section.

You are taking a big handicap when you stay on the AM band, and use a
standard off the shelf AM radio.

You have to use a radio that is designed for SW use, where the average noise
levels are a lot lower, better selectivity, and the radio has a higher total
gain from antenna to speaker.

If I was designing a simple software IF radio for them to use with their
computer, Or a basic SSB voice rig, here is the basic layout i would use.

The IF for receive and TX would be 455Kc using off the shelf AM IF cans.

TX side.
450Kc or 460Kc crystal feeding a balanced modulator.
Soundcard driving the other input of the balanced modulator.
Feed the output of the modulator through an amplifier to an off the shelf
455Kc center frequency, 10Kc bandwidth, crystal filter used in the IF of
standard AM receivers.

Feed that into a mixer being driven by a 630kc local oscillator.
That will yield a 170Kc to 180kc coverage signal that you can feed into a
band pass filter.
Feed the band pass filter into the final amp.
Feed the final amp into the antenna coupler/ second band pass filter, and
then to the antenna.

That will allow you to use about 1/3 of the entire lowfer band without
changing any frequency in the transmitter.

Just set up the receiver with the exact opposite of the TX.
And you can use the TX crystal oscillators to feed the receiver, so the RX
frequency will be a mirror of the TX one.

The antenna coming in to a band pass filter.
One stage of RF amp if desired.
Feed that into the RX mixer.
The mixer uses the same 630Kc local oscillator as the TX section.
Run the output of the mixer into an IF strip, with an identical 455Kc
crystal filter.
Run it to a final detector being feed by the 450/460Kc crystal.
Feed the output of a detector into an audio amp, then to the input of the
sound card.
Put a little AGC in here and there, and you are ready to go.

With that setup, they could have several conversations going at once on
different digital modes, without bothering each other.

For an AM transmitter I would just use a crystal oscillator driving a
modulated final amp.
And for the receive end, I would just use a modified AM receiver with a GOOD
IF!!!. There is even a few general coverage radios that already has 160 to
190Kc coverage that would work fine for a receiver..

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

N9WOS wrote:
Only thing is, such low power xmitters, if designed and tuned to a
"quiet" portion of the mw band allows anyone with a standard am radio to
tune into and participate in ...

Rip apart any old transistor radio and you have the necessary parts for
the xmitter ...

VLF receivers can be a tad bit expensive ... however, most am radios
would easily be modified to VLF ... the patience of the elmer would be
the only resource in question.

Regards,
JS

The first thing that came into my mind when I read that is.
Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"?

The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is
heavily polluted with RF noise.
The general coverage receiver I have, has a 200 Foot long antenna hooked to
it.
Night or day, It is hard to find a broadcast channel that isn't giving a
signal reading running from S5 to S9 even when you can't hear any traces of
a broadcast signal.
There is so many distant stations being heard at once that it turns into
indistinguishable noise.

And if you do catch a quiet channel, it only last for a few minutes, or
hours until propagation changes, and the noise level comes back up to
normal.

Once you drop off the edge of the AM band, the average noise level drops
down to almost nothing within a few Kc of the edge.

After you get past a certain grade of radio and RX antenna, you will not
gain any improvement because of the base noise level of the band. They would
basically be reduced to fighting the TX side of things, to try and stay
above the average noise level.

Can you say "CB a few years ago"?

The only reason the horrible noise level isn't apparent on most AM receivers
sold in stores, is because they are so insensitive that they can't hear even
relatively loud signals. That is why I almost consider it a waste of money
to buy a standard AM/FM radio that is currently on the market to listen to
AM. I have built crystal radios that are more sensitive on AM than some of
the high dollar AM/FM radios I have used.

A lot of AM/FM radios I see any more, don't even have an IF section, with IF
transformers. If you are lucky, they have a 455kc crystal filter, in a
section that can barely be called a IF section.

You are taking a big handicap when you stay on the AM band, and use a
standard off the shelf AM radio.

You have to use a radio that is designed for SW use, where the average noise
levels are a lot lower, better selectivity, and the radio has a higher total
gain from antenna to speaker.

If I was designing a simple software IF radio for them to use with their
computer, Or a basic SSB voice rig, here is the basic layout i would use.

The IF for receive and TX would be 455Kc using off the shelf AM IF cans.

TX side.
450Kc or 460Kc crystal feeding a balanced modulator.
Soundcard driving the other input of the balanced modulator.
Feed the output of the modulator through an amplifier to an off the shelf
455Kc center frequency, 10Kc bandwidth, crystal filter used in the IF of
standard AM receivers.

Feed that into a mixer being driven by a 630kc local oscillator.
That will yield a 170Kc to 180kc coverage signal that you can feed into a
band pass filter.
Feed the band pass filter into the final amp.
Feed the final amp into the antenna coupler/ second band pass filter, and
then to the antenna.

That will allow you to use about 1/3 of the entire lowfer band without
changing any frequency in the transmitter.

Just set up the receiver with the exact opposite of the TX.
And you can use the TX crystal oscillators to feed the receiver, so the RX
frequency will be a mirror of the TX one.

The antenna coming in to a band pass filter.
One stage of RF amp if desired.
Feed that into the RX mixer.
The mixer uses the same 630Kc local oscillator as the TX section.
Run the output of the mixer into an IF strip, with an identical 455Kc
crystal filter.
Run it to a final detector being feed by the 450/460Kc crystal.
Feed the output of a detector into an audio amp, then to the input of the
sound card.
Put a little AGC in here and there, and you are ready to go.

With that setup, they could have several conversations going at once on
different digital modes, without bothering each other.

For an AM transmitter I would just use a crystal oscillator driving a
modulated final amp.
And for the receive end, I would just use a modified AM receiver with a GOOD
IF!!!. There is even a few general coverage radios that already has 160 to
190Kc coverage that would work fine for a receiver..




You have presented the above well, I am in agreement ...

The world is always a compromise between what one wants and what is
actually to be had.

Too bad there are none of the dollar-ninety-eight kits out there--like
there was when I as a boy. (or tons of old military equipment to be had
for a song)

Warmest regards,
JS

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

"N9WOS" ) writes:

The first thing that came into my mind when I read that is.
Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"?

The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is
heavily polluted with RF noise.

The solution is actually simpler.

Since realistically the kids don't need to communicate before they actually
can, they need to receiver code practice. There is, again, ample chance
to convey the hobby to them before they pursue licenses, and once they
have licenses pretty much "anything goes" because of the very nature of
amateur radio.

The solution is to get the community involved. These are their kids,
they want them to do well in the world. Presumably there is a radio
station on the reserve specifically for the reservation. So get some
space there to send code (obviously a code practice oscillator into the
microphone input) for a bit. It could even be as simple as
a few sentences every day at a fixed time, the same way Jean Sheppard
wrote of getting secret messages during the "Little Orphan Annie" show.
The reservation near here has bingo games on the air every Sunday night,
so why shouldn't a community that is interested in the success of their
young not see the point of sending some morse code over the local station?

The point isn't to give them amateur radio before the fact, it's to lure
them in.

And if there's no community radio station on that reserve, then I suspect
that's of more value than low power stations that may turn out to be a dud.
Because a community station can do so much for the community. And one might
as well get those interested students involved in the project.

A few years back, at that nearby reserve that has radio bingo, one 13 year
old lamented that there was no library on the reserved. They have a library
now, it carries her name. This is something that is going to last forever
(or hopefully so), and is the sort of thing reserves need. Libraries
are places where people can find those books about radio and electronics
when they suddenly become interested, or lure them in when they stumble
on such things.

Getting the kids interested in science and even specifically electronics
is a good thing. Done well, it will even benefit them if they don't
pursue such things later, because the teaching becomes a catalyst for
other things.

But sometimes one has to look at projects and wonder if they will really
make change, or if they are just neat in themselves but will actually
bomb (because the kids lose interest, or because all kinds of money and
resource is put it into something when there are simpler things to do
the same thing).

Michael VE2BVW

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only
problem
with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band.

My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice
group
they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and
anyone
who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass
pounders.

Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but
then
start an amplifier project.

Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that
each kid
would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial.

On Jan 27, 3:20 pm, "N9WOS" wrote:
Only thing is, such low power xmitters, if designed and tuned to a
"quiet" portion of the mw band allows anyone with a standard am radio to
tune into and participate in ...

Rip apart any old transistor radio and you have the necessary parts for
the xmitter ...

VLF receivers can be a tad bit expensive ... however, most am radios
would easily be modified to VLF ... the patience of the elmer would be
the only resource in question.

Regards,
JSThe first thing that came into my mind when I read that is.
Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"?

The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is
heavily polluted with RF noise.
The general coverage receiver I have, has a 200 Foot long antenna hooked to
it.
Night or day, It is hard to find a broadcast channel that isn't giving a
signal reading running from S5 to S9 even when you can't hear any traces of
a broadcast signal.
There is so many distant stations being heard at once that it turns into
indistinguishable noise.

And if you do catch a quiet channel, it only last for a few minutes, or
hours until propagation changes, and the noise level comes back up to
normal.

Once you drop off the edge of the AM band, the average noise level drops
down to almost nothing within a few Kc of the edge.

After you get past a certain grade of radio and RX antenna, you will not
gain any improvement because of the base noise level of the band. They would
basically be reduced to fighting the TX side of things, to try and stay
above the average noise level.

Can you say "CB a few years ago"?

The only reason the horrible noise level isn't apparent on most AM receivers
sold in stores, is because they are so insensitive that they can't hear even
relatively loud signals. That is why I almost consider it a waste of money
to buy a standard AM/FM radio that is currently on the market to listen to
AM. I have built crystal radios that are more sensitive on AM than some of
the high dollar AM/FM radios I have used.

A lot of AM/FM radios I see any more, don't even have an IF section, with IF
transformers. If you are lucky, they have a 455kc crystal filter, in a
section that can barely be called a IF section.

You are taking a big handicap when you stay on the AM band, and use a
standard off the shelf AM radio.

You have to use a radio that is designed for SW use, where the average noise
levels are a lot lower, better selectivity, and the radio has a higher total
gain from antenna to speaker.

If I was designing a simple software IF radio for them to use with their
computer, Or a basic SSB voice rig, here is the basic layout i would use.

The IF for receive and TX would be 455Kc using off the shelf AM IF cans.

TX side.
450Kc or 460Kc crystal feeding a balanced modulator.
Soundcard driving the other input of the balanced modulator.
Feed the output of the modulator through an amplifier to an off the shelf
455Kc center frequency, 10Kc bandwidth, crystal filter used in the IF of
standard AM receivers.

Feed that into a mixer being driven by a 630kc local oscillator.
That will yield a 170Kc to 180kc coverage signal that you can feed into a
band pass filter.
Feed the band pass filter into the final amp.
Feed the final amp into the antenna coupler/ second band pass filter, and
then to the antenna.

That will allow you to use about 1/3 of the entire lowfer band without
changing any frequency in the transmitter.

Just set up the receiver with the exact opposite of the TX.
And you can use the TX crystal oscillators to feed the receiver, so the RX
frequency will be a mirror of the TX one.

The antenna coming in to a band pass filter.
One stage of RF amp if desired.
Feed that into the RX mixer.
The mixer uses the same 630Kc local oscillator as the TX section.
Run the output of the mixer into an IF strip, with an identical 455Kc
crystal filter.
Run it to a final detector being feed by the 450/460Kc crystal.
Feed the output of a detector into an audio amp, then to the input of the
sound card.
Put a little AGC in here and there, and you are ready to go.

With that setup, they could have several conversations going at once on
different digital modes, without bothering each other.

For an AM transmitter I would just use a crystal oscillator driving a
modulated final amp.
And for the receive end, I would just use a modified AM receiver with a GOOD
IF!!!. There is even a few general coverage radios that already has 160 to
190Kc coverage that would work fine for a receiver..

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only
problem
with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band.

My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice
group
they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and
anyone
who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass
pounders.

Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but
then
start an amplifier project.

Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that
each kid
would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial.

Ww wow wow wow.... put the brakes on here a second.

There is a little flaw with that logic.

People do listen around the band, and type up the callsigns on
websites/books/CD ROMs, and a lot of logging programs have callsign lookup,
or at least rough location determination based on call layout.

There is never "just another group of brass pounders"

There is plenty of people that operate at levels of a watt or less, with the
full knowledge that when they pound out a CQ a couple times, that someone,
or sometime a bunch of people, will be looking through the band, hear them,
and respond, so they can make a contact.

Local CW ops, and even some at quite a distance will quickly determine that
there has been a flood of "very strange, illegal, but slightly weak people
that don't do code very well" cluttering up a specific frequency, or cluster
of frequencies.

Of course, the operator/s will subsequently have kittens, and all attempts
to make ham radio operators look like a bunch of angles will go down the
drain.

Of course the operator/s will try to get the group of "freebanders" to
leave. If they don't listen, then the operator will do his solemn duty and
he will get reinforcements, and the frequency will sound like world war 25
has just broken loose, pronto.

Them using random, made up callsigns will speed up the process, because
there is plenty of people that cruse the bands, looking for rare DX. How do
you think pileups happen? When they find a weak station using a rare
callsign, it will hit the DX clusters, and all hell will break loose.

Heck, one of the groups that I always listen to on 160 had a little fun one
time. One of them made a joke by saying that he was (something thousand
miles) south east of anchorage Alaska. (ie) In Iowa. And all of a sudden,
there were tons of people on the frequency asking where the Alaskan station
was. And carnage issued. Some casual passer by had heard the Alaska
reference and forwarded it to the DX clusters.

I can see so many ways that that setup could lead to total carnage in so
many ways.

You will have some poor child asking his parents why someone would want them
to stick such and such in up their tail end.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Jim Higgins wrote:

...
Seriously, not trying to be snide. I simply see nothing important on
the topic of FCC authority on Indian Reservations in that document.
Not to say it won't become an important issue some day, but I don't
see the seeds there.

What you see is the FCC side-step the question. I do not believe they
wish to take on the Indian nation. Indeed, I have heard of little
success in any gov't agency in doing so.

Those treaties signed many moons ago by our forefathers still stand
(Navajo, especially, have refused every attempt at revision), and they
are very, very broad ... like gambling was probably accepted in all the
territories back then. Like radio was NOT invented back then ... do you
even know how large that reservation in question is? Try the size of
West Virginia. Know how large that tribe is? Try the largest in the USA.

Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of
the best attorneys in the world. If you doubt that, take on the
Indians. California did, and lost ...

Regards,
JS

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Would a call sign like PART15XX make it a lot clearer and a lot more
obvious? I wonder what the FCC would suggest for micropower
CW callsigns.


On Jan 28, 5:40 pm, "N9WOS" wrote:
Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only
problem
with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band.

My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice
group
they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and
anyone
who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass
pounders.

Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but
then
start an amplifier project.

Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that
each kid
would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial.Ww wow wow wow.... put the brakes on here a second.

There is a little flaw with that logic.

People do listen around the band, and type up the callsigns on
websites/books/CD ROMs, and a lot of logging programs have callsign lookup,
or at least rough location determination based on call layout.

There is never "just another group of brass pounders"

There is plenty of people that operate at levels of a watt or less, with the
full knowledge that when they pound out a CQ a couple times, that someone,
or sometime a bunch of people, will be looking through the band, hear them,
and respond, so they can make a contact.

Local CW ops, and even some at quite a distance will quickly determine that
there has been a flood of "very strange, illegal, but slightly weak people
that don't do code very well" cluttering up a specific frequency, or cluster
of frequencies.

Of course, the operator/s will subsequently have kittens, and all attempts
to make ham radio operators look like a bunch of angles will go down the
drain.

Of course the operator/s will try to get the group of "freebanders" to
leave. If they don't listen, then the operator will do his solemn duty and
he will get reinforcements, and the frequency will sound like world war 25
has just broken loose, pronto.

Them using random, made up callsigns will speed up the process, because
there is plenty of people that cruse the bands, looking for rare DX. How do
you think pileups happen? When they find a weak station using a rare
callsign, it will hit the DX clusters, and all hell will break loose.

Heck, one of the groups that I always listen to on 160 had a little fun one
time. One of them made a joke by saying that he was (something thousand
miles) south east of anchorage Alaska. (ie) In Iowa. And all of a sudden,
there were tons of people on the frequency asking where the Alaskan station
was. And carnage issued. Some casual passer by had heard the Alaska
reference and forwarded it to the DX clusters.

I can see so many ways that that setup could lead to total carnage in so
many ways.

You will have some poor child asking his parents why someone would want them
to stick such and such in up their tail end.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

And I suspect I would make the problem worse if I let the kids
telegraph in their own language.


On Jan 28, 5:40 pm, "N9WOS" wrote:
Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only
problem
with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band.

My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice
group
they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and
anyone
who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass
pounders.

Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but
then
start an amplifier project.

Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that
each kid
would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial.Ww wow wow wow.... put the brakes on here a second.

There is a little flaw with that logic.

People do listen around the band, and type up the callsigns on
websites/books/CD ROMs, and a lot of logging programs have callsign lookup,
or at least rough location determination based on call layout.

There is never "just another group of brass pounders"

There is plenty of people that operate at levels of a watt or less, with the
full knowledge that when they pound out a CQ a couple times, that someone,
or sometime a bunch of people, will be looking through the band, hear them,
and respond, so they can make a contact.

Local CW ops, and even some at quite a distance will quickly determine that
there has been a flood of "very strange, illegal, but slightly weak people
that don't do code very well" cluttering up a specific frequency, or cluster
of frequencies.

Of course, the operator/s will subsequently have kittens, and all attempts
to make ham radio operators look like a bunch of angles will go down the
drain.

Of course the operator/s will try to get the group of "freebanders" to
leave. If they don't listen, then the operator will do his solemn duty and
he will get reinforcements, and the frequency will sound like world war 25
has just broken loose, pronto.

Them using random, made up callsigns will speed up the process, because
there is plenty of people that cruse the bands, looking for rare DX. How do
you think pileups happen? When they find a weak station using a rare
callsign, it will hit the DX clusters, and all hell will break loose.

Heck, one of the groups that I always listen to on 160 had a little fun one
time. One of them made a joke by saying that he was (something thousand
miles) south east of anchorage Alaska. (ie) In Iowa. And all of a sudden,
there were tons of people on the frequency asking where the Alaskan station
was. And carnage issued. Some casual passer by had heard the Alaska
reference and forwarded it to the DX clusters.

I can see so many ways that that setup could lead to total carnage in so
many ways.

You will have some poor child asking his parents why someone would want them
to stick such and such in up their tail end.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
And I suspect I would make the problem worse if I let the kids
telegraph in their own language.

(Cough cough)....... yap!!!!!!!

I couldn't really think of a way to avoid a cataclysm that is why I ditched
the idea of using the ham band, and especially the color burst frequency,
without second thought.

The 3.579545Mc (Got a color burst crystal in my hand right now.) frequency
is popular because the crystal is so readily available. So it's used in a
lot of homebrew equipment. The crystal may be pulled up or down a bit in
frequency, but within a few KC of that frequency.

You would basically be dropping them into a hornets nest of activity.

Any other alternative would be highly suggestible, even running relatively
high power on the AM broadcast band would have less of a chance of stirring
up trouble.


Another idea.
Going with off the shelf CB's would also be an idea. You could use a code
practice oscillator held close to the mike, or even wired into the mike
circuit, to send code practice. You could even implement digital
transmission systems via a computer, program, and sound card (RTTY, PSK31,
MFSK) if you wired the soundcard output into the mike. It would work
perfectly fine on Stock AM. Only one person could use the frequency at a
time. It wouldn't exactly match the designed method of operation, but it
would work. It would get them familiarized with the modes of operation.

If you spent the money on SSB CB's then you could fully implement the
intended method of operation for soundcard/computer based programs. And it
would allow multiple people to carry on a PSK31/RTTY/BPSK/MFSK.....
conversation on the same channel without bothering each other. Basically
the same as you would have on the Lowfer band. And you wouldn't really have
to build a thing except for a few audio interface cables.

Just get a bunch of SSB radios, the cheapest ones you can get. Wire up a
bunch of interface cables to hook the mike, and speaker connections to the
sound card, and you are done.

You could also set up a packet network with CB's. Other people have done it.

You could even implement the newest DRM transmission systems that are
hitting the ham band if you had SSB CB's.

And the CB band is relatively dead right now, so you have plenty of open
channels to work with.

And you can use off the shelf antennas, that are a lot smaller. It would
also open up the realm of mobile operation.


There is plenty of options, besides putting them in a situation that is just
asking for trouble.

.................................................. ...........................
..................

A little note to add to that, in case someone thinks that no one will hear a
station at a distance that is running real low of power.

A few weeks ago, I was playing with an oscillator design. I had just used a
random inductor that i had laying around for the LC network. The frequency
that it landed on was totally at random.

That happened to be around 8.199Mc

All that i had hooked to the proto board was the power supply, and the
frequency counter, (and sometimes the O scope). The oscillator was
developing about a 8V P to P signal across the 1Kohm loading resistor on the
proto board.

I wanted to have an audio representation of the oscillator drift, so I went
to my normal HF receiver and tuned it in on the SSB setting so i could hear
the drift in real time.

The oscillator was being pulled by the frequency counter a bit. When the
gate of the counter would open, the oscillator would shift down a hundred
cycles or so. The audio signal I was hearing was along the lines of ...
drrrrrrrrrrrr duuuuuuuuuuuuu drrrrrrrrrrrrr duuuuuuuuuu...........

I had a reason to turn it off for a minute, and then when i turned it back
on, i heard a Burlblbublbublbub ..... for a few seconds, then it went away,
for a few seconds, then it went Burlblbublbublbub ..... again, and then
went away........ I thought that it was totally by coincidence. There was no
way anyone could be hearing it.

So, to settle my mind, that I wasn't going crazy, I shut off the oscillator
again, for a few minutes. I never heard the unknown signal in that time. But
when I turned the oscillator back on..... About two seconds after i turned
it on.......... Burlblbublbublbub........ then a few seconds later......
Burlblbublbublbub....

After subsequent test cycles I had pretty much figured out that it was some
kind of frequency hopping signal that I was hearing. The signal from my
oscillator must of correlated closely with the type of contact initiation
signal that the outside station was looking for. When it heard that warbling
tone, it would try to interrogate the calling station (my oscillator) to set
up a two way contact. It would try two times, then give up until the signal
disappeared for a certain amount of time. When the signal would come back,
then it would try to set up a two way contact again

I looked up what band the 8.199Mc signal fell in, and my old reference book
said it was a maritime mobile band. The data in the book may be out of date,
but if it isn't, then the receiving station may have been a long ways away.
Probably some automated ship to shore station along the great lakes. The
propagation was just right for my signal to hit their receiver.

Stuff like that is why direct antenna coupled regenerative receivers that
are operated in the oscillation region for CW/SSB detection are frowned
upon. If they are hooked to a good antenna, then your "receiver" can be
heard quite a distance away.

That is why most regenerative kits sold today, have an RF amp stage on the
input, to stop the regenerative section from back feeding the antenna.

I have even heard of a few people using a regenerative receiver as a
transceiver by keying the tube with the regeneration control turned way up.
They only made contact to people on the other side of the island, but it
worked. Now try to beat that, a one tube or transistor transceiver!

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in
Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal
restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran
electricity to the bathroom.

So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a
reservation.

{;-)

Jim



"John Smith I" wrote in message
...


Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the
best attorneys in the world.