Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are
more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent
being made fun of like that.

To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the
rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods,
technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves
who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it
appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism.

The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then
act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do.

You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you
can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a
new technology in a culturally appropriate manner.

The Eternal Squire


On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote:
That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in
Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal
restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran
electricity to the bathroom.

So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a
reservation.

{;-)

Jim

"John Smith I" wrote in ...



Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the
best attorneys in the world.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Squire---

I tried to email you....it bounced back.

Pete
AC7ZL

wrote:
The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are
more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent
being made fun of like that.

To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the
rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods,
technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves
who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it
appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism.

The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then
act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do.

You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you
can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a
new technology in a culturally appropriate manner.

The Eternal Squire


On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote:

That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in
Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal
restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran
electricity to the bathroom.

So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a
reservation.

{;-)

Jim

"John Smith I" wrote in ...




Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the
best attorneys in the world.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

The why not say it here?

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote:
Squire---

I tried to email you....it bounced back.

Pete
AC7ZL

wrote:
The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are
more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent
being made fun of like that.

To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the
rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods,
technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves
who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it
appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism.

The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then
act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do.

You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you
can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a
new technology in a culturally appropriate manner.

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote:

That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in
Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal
restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran
electricity to the bathroom.

So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a
reservation.

{;-)

Jim

"John Smith I" wrote in ...

Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the
best attorneys in the world.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Speak for yourself. My grandmother was of the Crow Nation and it has been
my observation that most evolved peoples have a sense of humor. You might
consider getting your panties out of a wad and lightening up a bit. I ain't
any happier than you that my ancestors gave the First Nation the smelly end
of the stick, but we both know that time moves forwards, not backwards. It
is what we do OURSELVES that we are accountable for, not the sins of our
forebears.

I had teachers like you growing up ... sheesh.

Jim


Even such whites are ourselves
who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it
appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Very well.

Andrew,

A few thoughts about your idea and some of the responses that it has evoked:

First off, I don't think your emphasis should be on transmitting. To me,
ham radio is about communication, and communication, first and foremost,
is about LISTENING. Listening is what you should emphasize.

Since there are both physical laws of nature and interference (natural
and man-made) to contend with, the real magic in radio is the antenna,
amplifier(s), filter(s), and operator techniques used to extract useful
information from a feeble signal. (Case in point: Voyager 1 is now more
than 9 BILLION miles from earth, but as long as its flea-power
transmitter holds out, we expect to be able to continue receiving data.)

There is great fun in building simple receivers, and much to be learned.
A few years back, for lack of something better to do one evening, I
knocked together a regenerative set on the bench top in the garage. I
wound a coil on a toilet paper tube, made a grid-leak capacitor out of a
couple of microscope slides and some foil, and hooked up an old #26
tetrode. The rig was "wired" with alligator leads and powered by
flashlight batteries. The antenna was 15 feet of wire thumb tacked to
the garage ceiling, and the ground was a 'gator clip attached to the
cover plate screw of a nearby outlet. A few adjustments later and I
found myself listening to a radio-theater presentation of "Dracula" put
on by the BBC in London. That's more than 5000 miles from where I live.
That's magic.

In your case, a FET based regenerative set would be the ticket. Dirt
cheap and effective enough to be useful. (I'm thinking something along
the lines of 1 FET RF/isolation, 1 FET regen stage, and an LM386 amp
chip, which will easily drive common walkman-style headphones.)

If you want to teach your kids Morse, use the Code Quick method. Buy a
copy of a program called Numorse for yourself, and use this to generate
exercises for the kids. You can put the audio on cassette tape or CD's.
When they get up to 5 WPM or so, you have them listen to W1AW. The day
after a W1AW session you ask the kids some specific question about the
text that was sent the previous night. Offer prizes or some kind of
encouragement for positive responses. Once they can receive Morse,
learning to send is rather easy.

This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of
sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and
pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly
similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The
equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one
situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far
less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid
hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or
technical career could develop from this experience.

If you insist on transmitting, or equipping your students to transmit
before they even have the skills to do so properly, fine, so long as you
are certain that your activities are within the boundaries of the law.
With regard to the comments of some in this thread I will simply say
that the last thing society needs is a "mentor" whose first lesson will
essentially be: "If you don't like the rules just ignore them." I am of
the opinion that the preponderance of this attitude is responsible for
much of the unhappiness in this world.

Final thought. I few years back I authored a book on the subject of
primitive radio, and how to build radio components from scratch. This
includes homemade variable capacitors, tuning coils, detectors, and even
headphones. The equipment is built with hand tools and made from such
mundane source material as wood, tin cans, cabinet magnets, and
cigarette lighter parts.

Web link: http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/bks-votc.htm

This book has been critically acclaimed by the editors of QST and
Practical Wireless in the U.K., and is recommended by at least one
teacher's guide:
http://www.libraryvideo.com/guides/N...E5J92CHF5S8T4A

I am sensitive to educational and charitable concerns. If you should
express serious interest in using these in a classroom setting, we could
discuss how to make this happen.

73

H P "Pete" Friedrichs
AC7ZL


wrote:
The why not say it here?

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote:

Squire---

I tried to email you....it bounced back.

Pete
AC7ZL

wrote:

The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are
more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent
being made fun of like that.

To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the
rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods,
technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves
who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it
appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism.

The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then
act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do.

You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you
can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a
new technology in a culturally appropriate manner.

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote:

That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in
Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal
restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran
electricity to the bathroom.

So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a
reservation.

{;-)

Jim

"John Smith I" wrote in ...

Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the
best attorneys in the world.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

"H. P. Friedrichs" ) writes:

This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of
sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and
pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly
similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The
equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one
situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far
less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid
hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or
technical career could develop from this experience.

I sort of said something along the same lines, though maybe it's not
apparent.

The idea of something more open-ended seems more important than a funneling
into something specific. I don't think anyone could see anything wrong
with getting the kids interested and even excited about science
and technology. But how you get them there can be a mystery. Somethingt
sparks an interest in one child, and not in another. The goal can't be
about the kids getting a ham license, it has to be the benefits
they might get from being involved in the hobby. And there are all
kinds of things that might provide similar benefits, and might suit
the kids more than spending time preparing them for a ham license. The
effort might be better spent on getting them interested in something
that fits them, and letting that be a vector for learning.

Too often, adults forget what it's like to be young, and they use
adult notions in trying to interpret the young. So often there is
the "kids today aren't interested in science" yet if they aren't
given the chance they never will be. And of course, science was
never something belonging to all. Building that regen receiver
and getting it working should be as much of a challenge and thrill
as it was back when I was young, because it's not about having the
receiver (which won't compare with something store bought) but that
you built it yourself.

I threw together a stepping motor, diode, "super-cap" and LED to make a
crank flashlight a couple of months ago. I'm still trying to remember where
I put the other supercaps I took out of VCRs, because there wasn't enough
capacity. But I was making it to show the daughter of a friend, who is about
the right age to appreciate that such things are in the realm of making
yourself. It doesn't matter that you can buy such things pretty cheaply
now, it matters that it conveys that such things don't just grow on trees.

If we aren't doing this sort of thing, conveying that we are intrigued
by such things and showing off how it's not a black box beyond our control
but something we can put together from scrap parts, then there's no chance
that the young will become interested in science and technology.

Michael VE2BVW

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

HP,

The whole point of my original post was to see if forming a micropower
net on 80M COULD be done within the rules. I would indeed be a poor
mentor
for encouraging students to break the rules... and I never advocated
such. Please speed-read what I post a little slower next time :)

Today I make my first presentation, and I have a pretty bad cold.
I don't have any Mr. Wizard exhibits put togther, just the equivalent
of a slide show plus a few parts, because I only have a week's notice.

I am changing tack and taking my radio with me to the classroom,
if the students are really interested I will lend the classroom my rig
until
a replacement can be build or bought, and be with them for a couple
hours per week as control operator. The science teacher has
promised it could be connected outside to a wire antenna of some type
if at all possible.

So wish me luck, and please use my handle on Usenet rather than
my name from now on. I'd rather not be made by some determined
lunatic intent on causing me or my family any harm.



On Jan 30, 8:46 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote:
Very well.

Andrew,

A few thoughts about your idea and some of the responses that it has evoked:

First off, I don't think your emphasis should be on transmitting. To me,
ham radio is about communication, and communication, first and foremost,
is about LISTENING. Listening is what you should emphasize.

Since there are both physical laws of nature and interference (natural
and man-made) to contend with, the real magic in radio is the antenna,
amplifier(s), filter(s), and operator techniques used to extract useful
information from a feeble signal. (Case in point: Voyager 1 is now more
than 9 BILLION miles from earth, but as long as its flea-power
transmitter holds out, we expect to be able to continue receiving data.)

There is great fun in building simple receivers, and much to be learned.
A few years back, for lack of something better to do one evening, I
knocked together a regenerative set on the bench top in the garage. I
wound a coil on a toilet paper tube, made a grid-leak capacitor out of a
couple of microscope slides and some foil, and hooked up an old #26
tetrode. The rig was "wired" with alligator leads and powered by
flashlight batteries. The antenna was 15 feet of wire thumb tacked to
the garage ceiling, and the ground was a 'gator clip attached to the
cover plate screw of a nearby outlet. A few adjustments later and I
found myself listening to a radio-theater presentation of "Dracula" put
on by the BBC in London. That's more than 5000 miles from where I live.
That's magic.

In your case, a FET based regenerative set would be the ticket. Dirt
cheap and effective enough to be useful. (I'm thinking something along
the lines of 1 FET RF/isolation, 1 FET regen stage, and an LM386 amp
chip, which will easily drive common walkman-style headphones.)

If you want to teach your kids Morse, use the Code Quick method. Buy a
copy of a program called Numorse for yourself, and use this to generate
exercises for the kids. You can put the audio on cassette tape or CD's.
When they get up to 5 WPM or so, you have them listen to W1AW. The day
after a W1AW session you ask the kids some specific question about the
text that was sent the previous night. Offer prizes or some kind of
encouragement for positive responses. Once they can receive Morse,
learning to send is rather easy.

This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of
sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and
pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly
similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The
equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one
situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far
less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid
hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or
technical career could develop from this experience.

If you insist on transmitting, or equipping your students to transmit
before they even have the skills to do so properly, fine, so long as you
are certain that your activities are within the boundaries of the law.
With regard to the comments of some in this thread I will simply say
that the last thing society needs is a "mentor" whose first lesson will
essentially be: "If you don't like the rules just ignore them." I am of
the opinion that the preponderance of this attitude is responsible for
much of the unhappiness in this world.

Final thought. I few years back I authored a book on the subject of
primitive radio, and how to build radio components from scratch. This
includes homemade variable capacitors, tuning coils, detectors, and even
headphones. The equipment is built with hand tools and made from such
mundane source material as wood, tin cans, cabinet magnets, and
cigarette lighter parts.

Web link: http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/bks-votc.htm

This book has been critically acclaimed by the editors of QST and
Practical Wireless in the U.K., and is recommended by at least one
teacher's guide:http://www.libraryvideo.com/guides/N...EATDCXALG28J0F...

I am sensitive to educational and charitable concerns. If you should
express serious interest in using these in a classroom setting, we could
discuss how to make this happen.

73

H P "Pete" Friedrichs
AC7ZL

wrote:
The why not say it here?

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote:

Squire---

I tried to email you....it bounced back.

Pete
AC7ZL

wrote:

The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are
more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent
being made fun of like that.

To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the
rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods,
technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves
who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it
appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism.

The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then
act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do.

You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you
can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a
new technology in a culturally appropriate manner.

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote:

That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in
Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal
restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran
electricity to the bathroom.

So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a
reservation.

{;-)

Jim

"John Smith I" wrote in ...

Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the
best attorneys in the world.

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

On Jan 30, 9:10 pm, (Michael Black) wrote:
"H. P. Friedrichs" ) writes:

This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of
sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and
pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly
similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The
equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one
situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far
less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid
hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or
technical career could develop from this experience.

I sort of said something along the same lines, though maybe it's not
apparent.

The idea of something more open-ended seems more important than a funneling
into something specific. I don't think anyone could see anything wrong
with getting the kids interested and even excited about science
and technology. But how you get them there can be a mystery. Somethingt
sparks an interest in one child, and not in another. The goal can't be
about the kids getting a ham license, it has to be the benefits
they might get from being involved in the hobby. And there are all
kinds of things that might provide similar benefits, and might suit
the kids more than spending time preparing them for a ham license. The
effort might be better spent on getting them interested in something
that fits them, and letting that be a vector for learning.

Too often, adults forget what it's like to be young, and they use
adult notions in trying to interpret the young. So often there is
the "kids today aren't interested in science" yet if they aren't
given the chance they never will be. And of course, science was
never something belonging to all. Building that regen receiver
and getting it working should be as much of a challenge and thrill
as it was back when I was young, because it's not about having the
receiver (which won't compare with something store bought) but that
you built it yourself.

I threw together a stepping motor, diode, "super-cap" and LED to make a
crank flashlight a couple of months ago. I'm still trying to remember where
I put the other supercaps I took out of VCRs, because there wasn't enough
capacity. But I was making it to show the daughter of a friend, who is about
the right age to appreciate that such things are in the realm of making
yourself. It doesn't matter that you can buy such things pretty cheaply
now, it matters that it conveys that such things don't just grow on trees.

If we aren't doing this sort of thing, conveying that we are intrigued
by such things and showing off how it's not a black box beyond our control
but something we can put together from scrap parts, then there's no chance
that the young will become interested in science and technology.

Michael VE2BVW

Well, I did try to build a regenerative receiver to demonstrate to the
class,
but I couldn't get regeneration. Shall I mail it to you to see if you
can debug it?

Thanks,

The Eternal Squire

Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
 

Point taken, and I beg your pardon. However, I still try to err on
the side
of caution than the other way.

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 30, 3:42 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:
Speak for yourself. My grandmother was of the Crow Nation and it has been
my observation that most evolved peoples have a sense of humor. You might
consider getting your panties out of a wad and lightening up a bit. I ain't
any happier than you that my ancestors gave the First Nation the smelly end
of the stick, but we both know that time moves forwards, not backwards. It
is what we do OURSELVES that we are accountable for, not the sins of our
forebears.

I had teachers like you growing up ... sheesh.

Jim

Even such whites are ourselves

who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it
appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism.