On Jun 11, 1:20 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:


There is an element on 75 meters that just seems to hate the idea of
Hams having fun, and want to spoil it for others.

There are a lot of cbers on the ham bands who happen to have ham
licenses.

cmdr buzz corey wrote:
On Jun 11, 1:20 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

There is an element on 75 meters that just seems to hate the idea of
Hams having fun, and want to spoil it for others.

There are a lot of cbers on the ham bands who happen to have ham
licenses.



I would respectfully note that the problems cannot all be laid at the
feet of those who use/used Citizen band radios. It is a kind of
convenient word to generalize with, but in the end can add to the problems.

But more importantly, what are we going to do about it? Somewhere
between the world of "You will not say the word "roger" lest ye be
banned from my repeater", and the Dodge City of 75 meters is a middle
ground that needs explored.

Basically, Hams need to accept that there are some of us who have
different accents from us, and may talk differently.

We need to not get spun up when someone says "My handle is...". Or
Roger, or whatever. People who speak Q-signals and give 5 of 9 reports
should not berate others for silly language.

On the other hand, people who interfere with others communications need
dealt with, and dealt with harshly once found.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:53:34 EDT, Michael Coslo wrote:

Somewhere
between the world of "You will not say the word "roger" lest ye be
banned from my repeater", and the Dodge City of 75 meters is a middle
ground that needs explored.

"Roger that, 10-4...good buddy...." g
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

"Phil Kane" wrote

"Roger that, 10-4...good buddy...." g

Yeahhhhh, the personal here is Howard....

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.

N7SO

On Jun 13, 1:08 am, "Howard Lester" wrote:


Yeahhhhh, the personal here is Howard....


Talked to a young fella on the repeater the other day who introduced
himself by saying "my first personal is Jim and you're my first
contact, QSL?".

He seemed like a nice sort, delighted that he had just received his
shiny new call sign, and was anxious to make some new friends. Kinda
sounded like I felt when I put my new call sign on the air the first
time way back when, except probably brighter, cuz Jim is one of those
young computer jocks. Me, I still got problems with the LL scale on
my
Pickett slide rule. Yep, I think Jim sounded brighter than me, quick
to
catch on to things.


But I don't think Jim will be back on the repeater. Before I had a
chance to really get to know much about Jim, or even wrangle an
invite
to lunch, another station, with an impressive "senior" call sign
joined
the contact, flashed his shiny Radio Cop badge, and proceeded to
issue
Jim a "verbal speeding ticket" for improper lingo on the radio.
"Radio
Cop" said the term "personal" (and for that matter "handle") were
unwelcome in ham radio, and that Q-signals were not to be used on VHF
voice. Just generally made my newfound friend feel like an unwashed
interloper. (Gosh, I've been saying "handle" since I was a
conditional
class. Slow to catch on, you know.)


Now I should point out that "Radio Cop" took pains to appear very
well
meaning. Didn't use any bad words that I noticed, was quite polite,
even seemed like he was trying to be "helpful." In other words, he
thought he was doing Jim a favor by pointing out his transgression
from
our sacred Amateur Radio way of doing things. I think Jim felt just
the
same way I did back in a new school in third grade when the well
meaning teacher pointed out that "we don't keep our pencil behind our
ear in this room." Sure enough, I looked around and none of my new
classmates had pencils behind their ears. Sure was embarrassing, and
at
that moment I really wished I was back with my good old buddies in
second grade. Now, if I'd been allowed to hang out a couple of days,
I'm sure I would have learned how to properly stow my pencil. And if
Jim would have hung around a couple of days on our repeater I just
bet
he would have noticed that his lingo, perhaps learned in another
radio
service, was a bit out of place, and pretty soon Jim would sound
"just
like the rest of us." Like I said, he seemed pretty bright to me,
quick
to catch on to things.


"Radio Cop", you have kept our hobby uncorrupted. I heard Jim down
around 27 Mhz this morning, and saw his ad on eBay trying to sell his
barely used 2-meter HT. I'm gonna miss my new friend Jim, because I
think I could have learned something from him. Maybe you could have
also.


Like I said, he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to
things. What do think it was that he caught on to about us from
"Radio
Cop".


73, de Hans, K0HB


~~~
When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by
this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
~~~

On Jun 12, 7:53 am, Michael Coslo wrote:
cmdr buzz coreywrote:
On Jun 11, 1:20 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

There is an element on 75 meters that just seems to hate the idea of
Hams having fun, and want to spoil it for others.

There are a lot of cbers on the ham bands who happen to have ham
licenses.

I would respectfully note that the problems cannot all be laid at the
feet of those who use/used Citizen band radios. It is a kind of
convenient word to generalize with, but in the end can add to the problems.

But more importantly, what are we going to do about it? Somewhere
between the world of "You will not say the word "roger" lest ye be
banned from my repeater", and the Dodge City of 75 meters is a middle
ground that needs explored.

Basically, Hams need to accept that there are some of us who have
different accents from us, and may talk differently.

We need to not get spun up when someone says "My handle is...". Or
Roger, or whatever. People who speak Q-signals and give 5 of 9 reports
should not berate others for silly language.

On the other hand, people who interfere with others communications need
dealt with, and dealt with harshly once found.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

I will rephrase that...there are a lot of cbers and cb types who have
ham licenses.

I would respectfully note that the problems cannot all be laid at the feet
of those who use/used Citizen band radios. It is a kind of convenient word
to generalize with, but in the end can add to the problems.

In my experience the bulk of "problem" operators were on air before CB
became a popular hobby.

Using the term "CBer" as a derogatory remark can only lead to pointless
arguments. A tactic some very successfully use as a means to divert debate
away from the fact that bad operators are bad operators regardless of their
other interests, and focus on those newer to the hobby than themselves.

Can we use the term "CBer" to describe people who use CB radio? And accept
that CB is really off topic for this group so why are we talking about these
guys anyway?

--
Jack VK2CJC / MM0AXL
Mid North Coast Amateur Radio Group
www.mncarg.org

Jim Higgins wrote in
:

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:53:34 EDT, Michael Coslo wrote:

cmdr buzz corey wrote:
On Jun 11, 1:20 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

There is an element on 75 meters that just seems to hate
the idea of
Hams having fun, and want to spoil it for others.

There are a lot of cbers on the ham bands who happen to have ham
licenses.

I would respectfully note that the problems cannot all be laid at
the
feet of those who use/used Citizen band radios. It is a kind of
convenient word to generalize with, but in the end can add to the
problems.

But more importantly, what are we going to do about it? Somewhere
between the world of "You will not say the word "roger" lest ye be
banned from my repeater", and the Dodge City of 75 meters is a middle
ground that needs explored.

Basically, Hams need to accept that there are some of us who have
different accents from us, and may talk differently.

We need to not get spun up when someone says "My handle is...".
Or
Roger, or whatever. People who speak Q-signals and give 5 of 9 reports
should not berate others for silly language.

On the other hand, people who interfere with others communications
need dealt with, and dealt with harshly once found.

I like your approach, Michael.

That last suggestion, if successful, would go a long way to ward
cleaning up 75M! ;-)

Not sure what rock I've been living under, but I've never heard that
"Roger" wasn't kosher on a repeater. Do you maybe mean "10-4?"


Nope. A few months ago, I did a little investigation on repeaters.
Surprisingly enough to me, a lot of the repeater pages had guidelines of
"how to speak" Roger was in a few.

Keeping in mind that that is quite legal - a repeater owner can
bring down the repeater or kick someone off it if s/he doesnt want anyone
to say "Chewbacca", it isn't a freindly sort of thing to do.

Some of the best - friendly, courteous, etc. - hams I know were former
CBers. They may not be all very technically inclined, but all have
well set up stations - good effective antennas, proper grounding, etc.
- and they did it themselves. And more importantly they treat their
fellow hams decently on and off the air. All the ones I know deserve
the respect and tolerance you suggest above and when you get down to
it don't really need it because they don't stand out as former CBers.

My experience has been the same. A local Ham who is a truck driver
just happens to be an excellent ham, in all ways. We're bringing him up
on the technical end too. He does occasionally say "roger that". Big
deal. I'll take ten of him for every grump.


And if a new ham does happen to say "10-4" or "my handle is" it's easy
enough to privately Elmer him on the sensitivity some have to that
lingo. Those who refuse that simple courteous approach might do well
to look for another hobby. We have enough grouchy old men as it is.
;-)

Right! We can lead by example, and if need be, I can make a mention
of it if it is egregious. Mention it off the air, and in a constructive
way. I wouldn't browbeat anyone for saying roger, or even first personal,
but would make an exception if people were delving into the
"avoidance/defeat" of law enforcement activities that I've heard on 11
meters.

My personal pet peeve comes from reading the FCC enforcement letters.
If it's not an Extra class licensee involved then it tends to be
someone who has been licensed for 20+ years. It's definitely not the
newcomers. They make their occasional mistakes, but they don't do
anything wrong with malicious intent. If everyone just met that one
simple standard the bands would be an entirely different place, esp
75M.

Seeing the enforcement letters, I read much the same. There is the
occasional Technician that is operating beyond their priveliges, but
unlicened operation, repeater jammers, and plenty of hams who have been
licensed for a very long time.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:30:26 EDT, Jim Higgins
wrote:

And if a new ham does happen to say "10-4" or "my handle is" it's easy
enough to privately Elmer him on the sensitivity some have to that
lingo. Those who refuse that simple courteous approach might do well
to look for another hobby. We have enough grouchy old men as it is.
;-)

This really not-too-grouchy old man remembers the use of "my handle
is...." or "handle here is..." on HF as "good amateur practice" even
before CB was invented.

Of course the use of "first personal is...." still grates on my ears
but give them time....they'll learn eventually.

My two electrons....
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

Phil Kane wrote in
:

Of course the use of "first personal is...." still grates on my ears
but give them time....they'll learn eventually.


My own personal pet peeve is when someone speaks "HI HI". In Morse it does
sound kind of like laughter, but when spoken it sounds quite strange.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -