wrote:
On Feb 29, 9:16�pm, Mike Coslo wrote:
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:40:11 -0500, N2EY wrote:
On Feb 29, 10:29 am, Michael Coslo wrote:

I'm a member of the function-determines-form
school of thought on this.
That sounder is an excellent example of that
school - its form is
exactly what it needs to be to do the job it was
intended to do. Yet it
is aesthetically pleasing without any added ornamentation.

You're just several pieces of brass and leather
away from steampunkin' it, Jim!

But I don't wanna be a steampunk!

Of course you can arrange your station to your own aesthetic 8^)



But see above about "form follows function" and "aesthetically
pleasing without any added ornamentation". Would adding brass and
leather make any difference in rig performance? Or are they only for
looks?

Well, now you open a interesting subsubject! The addition of brass to a
station is one of those choices that does not necessarily defeat
function. There needs to be a chassis to place components on or in. Is
aluminum or steel or plastic more functional than brass? there might be
some technical reasons fort one over the other, but in the end, they are
a support structure. An example is the copper plated chassis found in
some radios. Pretty cool. But I wonder how much "worse" they would
perform if they weren't plated?


IMHO, the form-follows-function aesthetic would brass- or nickle-plate
telegraph instruments to prevent corrosion. But it would not add brass
simply for a look.

Keeping in mind that fff could be used to not allow any embellishment,
such as staining, finishing, we have to make sure we don't minimalize
things out of existence.

side note: I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had hung a
data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the fan would
push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow, and it made a
pendulum. People were getting seasick!

Same for leather - would the speaker sound better?

well, possibly could make for some vibration damping.


My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation. The equipment has to sit on
something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed. I'm not going to remove
my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them. I don't
plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are a warm feeling
with an antique look where practical

- 73 d eMike N3LI -

Michael Coslo wrote:

side note: I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had hung a
data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the fan would
push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow, and it made a
pendulum. People were getting seasick!

All that for the lack of one, properly placed additional wire, heh.

My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation. The equipment has to sit on
something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed. I'm not going to remove
my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them. I don't
plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are a warm feeling
with an antique look where practical

That's easily and authentically achieved by obtaining an old wooden desk
and some genuine vintage equipment.

I have the castoff oak veneered desk from W8YX, the University of
Cincinnati ARC station. It is shown in a photo of the station which
appeared in a 1937 QST article about the Ohio River flood.

If I want a "thirties feel", I can fire up W4JBP's homebrew xtal
controlled 6L6 rig and pair it up with an HRO, SW-3, FB-7, an RME 69 or
a Hallicrafter Sky Challenger. If I want to move to the fifties, my
Johnson Valiant or Central 20-A might be paired with an HQ-70 or a
Collins 75A-3.

Dressing up modern technology to look as if it is powered by steam,
strikes me as more than a tad silly.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

side note: I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had hung
a data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the fan
would push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow, and it
made a pendulum. People were getting seasick!

All that for the lack of one, properly placed additional wire, heh.

Even with that, most buildings shake a little due to machinery, HVAC,
etc, and in the end, a projector mounted that way would be a problem.

My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation. The equipment has to sit
on something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed. I'm not going to
remove my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them.
I don't plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are a warm
feeling with an antique look where practical

That's easily and authentically achieved by obtaining an old wooden desk
and some genuine vintage equipment.

Oh yeah. I enjoy the look, and even went for it in a small way with some
tube equipment I bought a few years ago.

some snippage

Dressing up modern technology to look as if it is powered by steam,
strikes me as more than a tad silly.


Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm serious
art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples of the
genre are downright ridiculous - by design. Interviews with the creators
usually show them to have a great sense of humor, and that they enjoy
pulling our legs at times. But they want everyone in on the joke.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard on
the Stratocaster is beautiful.

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

Like keys for instance

Just look at say Begali keys. What workmanship and quality! These things
are true art. Other keys are gorgeous too. Even my modest Bencher has an
attractive look to it.

But most of that stuff isn't really needed. Certainly the Begali keys
are playfully experimental in nature, and the gold plating isn't really
needed, it's there for aesthetics.

And yet, I could go out to the garage, and make a serviceable paddle
with a piece of 2 by 4 and some springy metal.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

side note: I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had
hung a data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the
fan would push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow,
and it made a pendulum. People were getting seasick!

All that for the lack of one, properly placed additional wire, heh.

Even with that, most buildings shake a little due to machinery,
HVAC, etc, and in the end, a projector mounted that way would be a problem.

Maybe. Another wire, mounted diagonally from the rear would have done
away with most of the pendulum action. If you're worried about
buildings shaking, even a steel mounted would have such vibrations
transfered to the projector. The wires might have even damped those
types of motion.

My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation. The equipment has to sit
on something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed. I'm not going to
remove my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them.
I don't plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are a warm
feeling with an antique look where practical

That's easily and authentically achieved by obtaining an old wooden
desk and some genuine vintage equipment.

Oh yeah. I enjoy the look, and even went for it in a small way with some
tube equipment I bought a few years ago.

In my Cincinnati basement shack, there was one desk on which everything
was all mid-1930's, all the time.

some snippage

Dressing up modern technology to look as if it is powered by steam,
strikes me as more than a tad silly.


Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm
serious art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples of
the genre are downright ridiculous - by design.

....and I'd go even further in saying that most of it is downright
ridiculous by design or otherwise.

Interviews with the
creators usually show them to have a great sense of humor, and that they
enjoy pulling our legs at times. But they want everyone in on the joke.

Kitsch is kitsch no matter who tosses the pillows with a flair.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard on
the Stratocaster is beautiful.

I own a perfectly good '73 Strat. I'm defacing it for no one.

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

It isn't evident here.

Like keys for instance

Just look at say Begali keys. What workmanship and quality! These things
are true art. Other keys are gorgeous too. Even my modest Bencher has an
attractive look to it.

Some guys like Picasso. Some like Wyeth. If you liked the Bencher,
you'd love the FYO keyer it is based on. Either a metal like brass or
nickel is needed or some sort of plating is necessary to keep the metal
from corroding/rusting.

But most of that stuff isn't really needed. Certainly the Begali keys
are playfully experimental in nature, and the gold plating isn't really
needed, it's there for aesthetics.

Some kind of plating or paint is needed and it isn't practical to paint
things like the threads of screws. Key's aren't designed to look as if
they're steam powered.

And yet, I could go out to the garage, and make a serviceable paddle
with a piece of 2 by 4 and some springy metal.

I think we could all agree that such a contraption would be ugly in the
eyes of most. Additionally, it wouldn't be likely to work very well.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in
:



Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

some snippage

Sorry for the late reply on this, esp since the thread has taken a
different direction, but I though it deserved a reply....


Maybe. Another wire, mounted diagonally from the rear would have done
away with most of the pendulum action. If you're worried about
buildings shaking, even a steel mounted would have such vibrations
transfered to the projector. The wires might have even damped those
types of motion.

Using wires does not work. The reason is that buildings do not shake in
the way most people think. The building may shake in one axis, and not
another, and may shake in multiple directions, but not the same amount in
all axes, or at the same time.

This will have the effect of pulling the entire assembly in one direction
or another, depending on "whats a-shakin'", and which wire is pulling
more at the moment.

However, on a good sturdy ceiling mount, that has a resonance frequency
as high as practical, building movement is not much of a problem, unless
the building is on the verge of shaking itself apart. The reason is that
rapid pendulum damping with little movement gets rid of pendulum moment,
and that most floors tend to shake closely with the ceiling on any given
level, so the people are moving along with the image and screen.

I've never seen a professional design with wires, although I've
seen a few designed by others, and they all have damping problems, all
related to the multifilar pendulums they create. Oddly, the wire systems
I've seen were "designed" and built by engineers who thought they could
remove all the filar pendulum movement by going multifilar. That
inherently creates more complexity in movement. The answer is in that the
projector on the end of that pendulum becomes very similar to a mirror
galvanometer, greatly amplifying the movement by the time the light hits
the wall.


Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm
serious art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples
of the genre are downright ridiculous - by design.

...and I'd go even further in saying that most of it is downright
ridiculous by design or otherwise.

There is room in this world for a lot of different tastes. Some I
like, some I do not. I am always careful to not call any of them
ridiculous so that I don't indadvertantly insult someone. 8^)

Kitsch is kitsch no matter who tosses the pillows with a flair.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on
the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard
on the Stratocaster is beautiful.

I own a perfectly good '73 Strat. I'm defacing it for no one.

I have a hard time agreeing that *that* Strat was defaced. I have a white
on white Strat myself, and am happy to keep it that way, but there are a
lot of places who do custom guitar work or design:

http://www.sparrowguitars.com/
http://www.terrapinguitars.com/
http://www.warmoth.com/

Even Fender:

http://www.fender.com/customshop/home/index.php

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

It isn't evident here.

I disagree, respectfully, more below.

snippage

Some kind of plating or paint is needed and it isn't practical to
paint things like the threads of screws. Key's aren't designed to
look as if they're steam powered.

Precious metal plating is not there because it is practical, all
those keys are quite embellished, and can we tell the difference between
a gold plated and a painted one in operation? They also have unneeded
shapes, and Mister Begali calls them art. I find them to be quite
beautiful, and a magnificent tour de force in mechanical design in the
prosaic function of a telegraph key, but would not try to argue that they
are somehow based on practicality.

That's pretty much my input on the subject until I have the operating are
designed and built. My shack may not be to everyone's tastes, but
hopefully I'll like it! 8^)

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote in
:



Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

some snippage

Sorry for the late reply on this, esp since the thread has taken a
different direction, but I though it deserved a reply....


Maybe. Another wire, mounted diagonally from the rear would have done
away with most of the pendulum action. If you're worried about
buildings shaking, even a steel mounted would have such vibrations
transfered to the projector. The wires might have even damped those
types of motion.

Using wires does not work. The reason is that buildings do not shake in
the way most people think. The building may shake in one axis, and not
another, and may shake in multiple directions, but not the same amount in
all axes, or at the same time.

Okay, so what you earlier described as the motor fan causing a pendulum
motion wasn't exactly correct then. What you've described could be
described as random orbital in nature or, at times, even multiple pendula.

This will have the effect of pulling the entire assembly in one direction
or another, depending on "whats a-shakin'", and which wire is pulling
more at the moment.

I'm thinking that if you've got a building doing *that much shaking*,
you've got more problems than a projector moving a bit.

However, on a good sturdy ceiling mount, that has a resonance frequency
as high as practical, building movement is not much of a problem, unless
the building is on the verge of shaking itself apart. The reason is that
rapid pendulum damping with little movement gets rid of pendulum moment,
and that most floors tend to shake closely with the ceiling on any given
level, so the people are moving along with the image and screen.

I'm getting dizzy already, Mike.

I've never seen a professional design with wires, although I've
seen a few designed by others, and they all have damping problems, all
related to the multifilar pendulums they create. Oddly, the wire systems
I've seen were "designed" and built by engineers who thought they could
remove all the filar pendulum movement by going multifilar. That
inherently creates more complexity in movement. The answer is in that the
projector on the end of that pendulum becomes very similar to a mirror
galvanometer, greatly amplifying the movement by the time the light hits
the wall.

This is getting really close to becoming a Cecil moment. :-)

Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm
serious art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples
of the genre are downright ridiculous - by design.
...and I'd go even further in saying that most of it is downright
ridiculous by design or otherwise.

There is room in this world for a lot of different tastes. Some I
like, some I do not. I am always careful to not call any of them
ridiculous so that I don't indadvertantly insult someone. 8^)

You must never be so sensitive about what people might think of your
opinion that you become afraid to express it. If you think that a
certain style is kitschy or silly, you're permitted to say so. So am I.

Kitsch is kitsch no matter who tosses the pillows with a flair.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on
the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard
on the Stratocaster is beautiful.

I own a perfectly good '73 Strat. I'm defacing it for no one.

I have a hard time agreeing that *that* Strat was defaced. I have a white
on white Strat myself, and am happy to keep it that way, but there are a
lot of places who do custom guitar work or design:

http://www.sparrowguitars.com/
http://www.terrapinguitars.com/
http://www.warmoth.com/

Even Fender:

http://www.fender.com/customshop/home/index.php

Sure. Places which will do nearly anything for a buck abound. Some of
the work is skillfully done, but still ends up looking tacky.

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

It isn't evident here.

I disagree, respectfully, more below.

snippage

Some kind of plating or paint is needed and it isn't practical to
paint things like the threads of screws. Key's aren't designed to
look as if they're steam powered.

Precious metal plating is not there because it is practical, all
those keys are quite embellished, and can we tell the difference between
a gold plated and a painted one in operation?

No, we can't. That doesn't stop the gold plated one from looking better
to most of us. Gold doesn't oxidize the same as most other metals. It
doesn't need to be polished often. Gold in contacts is used where low
conact resistance is desired. In the old days, keys usually had
appreciable current running through them. With low current, solid state
circuits, a little oxidation on contacts can result in a keying circuit
malfunctioning.

No keys which are currently produced are made to look as if they're
steam powered.

They also have unneeded
shapes, and Mister Begali calls them art.

Some folks think an abstract painting done by a Chimpanzee is art. I
don't agree with them. Begali keys are well made. They're attractive
to some.

I find them to be quite
beautiful, and a magnificent tour de force in mechanical design in the
prosaic function of a telegraph key, but would not try to argue that they
are somehow based on practicality.

Keys got prosaic function? The Begalis, like all other keyer paddles
are designed to do a certain job. They can be as attractive as one can
make them, but if they cannot do the job reasonably well, they fail.

That's pretty much my input on the subject until I have the operating are
designed and built. My shack may not be to everyone's tastes, but
hopefully I'll like it! 8^)

You're the only guy who needs approve.

Dave K8MN

On Mar 3, 2:40�pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:

You're just several pieces of brass and leather
away from steampunkin' it, Jim!

But I don't wanna be a steampunk!

Of course you can arrange your station to your own aesthetic 8^)

Actually, Steampunk is only a few pieces of brass and leather away
from my aesthetic...

But see above about "form follows function" and "aesthetically
pleasing without any added ornamentation". Would adding
brass and
leather make any difference in rig performance?
Or are they only for
looks?

�Well, now you open a interesting subsubject!

Actually I think it's the whole subject....

The addition of brass to a
station is one of those choices that does not necessarily defeat
function.

Agreed - but in the Triple-F aesthetic (hereafter referred to as
"The Southgate School" or TSS), not defeating function isn't enough.
All choices must enhance or support functionality.

TSS also involves the use of available materials and techniques,
usually from non-traditional sources. The rig pictured on my website
(known as the Southgate Type 7) was built almost entirely from reused/
recycled/recovered parts found at hamfests and in junkpiles. A few
crystals were bought new, as was the solder, but that's about it. The
main tuning capacitor is from a junked BC-221 frequency meter; the
dial drum is cut from a piece of Perspex tubing 6" in diameter that
came from a piece of industrial equipment, the VFO box was made (by
hand - hacksaw & flat file) from scraps of 3/32" thick aluminum plate,
etc., etc.

IOW, "found objects".

There needs to be a chassis to place components on or in. Is
aluminum or steel or plastic more functional than brass?

Depends on the application.

For things like power supplies, steel is preferred due to greater
strength and some level of magnetic shielding. But steel must be
painted, plated or otherwise finished to prevent rust, particularly in
a basement shack where humidity may be high.

For things like transmitters and receivers (TSS does not normally use
built-in power supplies because they usually decrease functionality),
aluminum is preferred because of its light weight, corrosion
resistance, higher conductivity and ease of working.

Brass has good conductivity and is easy to work, but it is heavy,
expensive, and rarer than aluminum or steel. There is some use of
brass in TSS, mostly for specialized applications where aluminum is
too soft and plating or painting steel is not practical. For example
in the Southgate Type 7, there is a shaft extender from the tuning
capacitor which I made from brass. You don't see it but it's there.

there might be
some technical reasons fort one over the other, but in the end,
they are a support structure.

Agreed. I have used wood as well, in applications where shielding
wasn't important, or could be obtained in other ways.

An example is the copper plated chassis found in
some radios. Pretty cool. But I wonder how much "worse" they
would
perform if they weren't plated?

Copper plating of steel chassis (Drake is a prime example) was done
for a couple of reasons. One was corrosion protection; since the steel
had to be coated with something to prevent rust. Unlike most paints,
copper plating is conductive, so shields and components mounted to the
copper-plated chassis would make a good chassis connection. Another
plus is the ability to solder directly to the chassis.

But copper plating has disadvantages too. One is that the copper
tarnishes over time. Another is that any break in the plating can set
up electrolytic corrosion. There's also the cost and relative
impracticality of copper-plating at home.

What Drake and others did was to plate the chassis after all the holes
were punched. That's fine for production-line manufactured rigs, but
if there's a possibility of future changes that require new holes, the
plating would be broken. So I stick with aluminum, steel, and
sometimes plastic and wood.

Keeping in mind that fff could be used to not allow any
embellishment,
such as staining, finishing, we have to make sure we don't
minimalize
things out of existence.

TSS is about simplicity and functionality, not minimalism. If staining
or finishing improves the functionality, it is done. For example, the
shack tabletop consists of a layer of oriented strandboard (for
strength) topped by a layer of masonite (for a smooth hard surface).
This combination (actually a composite) was chosen because it was the
least expensive at the time. The masonite was given a couple of coats
of varnish because doing so improved the functionality.

I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had hung a
data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the fan
would
push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow, and it
made a
pendulum. People were getting seasick!

There's a textbook example of form *not* following function! The
purpose of the data projector support is to hold the projector at the
proper place so it can do its job, and if the image isn't rock-steady
the appearance doesn't matter.

� Same for leather - would the speaker sound better?

�well, possibly could make for some vibration damping.

Possibly. I've had some experience building speaker cabinets (clones
of the Altec A-7 "Voice of the Theater", JBL folded horns, for
example) and the trick is to build solid from the beginning.

My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the
aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation.

Which is the basis of Triple-F. You're not far from joining TSS!

The equipment has to sit on
something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed.

There's the key: "where needed".

I'm not going to remove
my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them.

OTOH, wood can be a good cabinet for a rig that doesn't have one.

I don't
plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are
a warm feeling with an antique look where practical.

I've always wondered what the fascination with "antiques" is. I can
understand the fascination with craftsmanship, design, practicality
and materials, though.

The term I would use is "classic" or "timeless". Look at some Mission
or Shaker furniture - it does not appear "antique" or dated. That's
what TSS is all about, applied to Amateur Radio (and a limited
budget!)

For another example, look at the classic Hitchcock film "Rear Window".
Even though it is more than 50 years old, the overall look of James
Stewart's New York apartment, the clothes, the cameras, and all the
other details are so classic that you'd want to live there today.
(Having Grace Kelly stopping by doesn't hurt either!)

Yet "Vertigo", made just a few years later by mostly the same people
(Hitchcock, Stewart), looks very kitschy and dated by comparison.

---

Perhaps the biggest challenge is that our hamshacks are usually works
in progress, rather than fully complete, so flexibility has to be
designed in too.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
On Mar 3, 2:40�pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:

Agreed - but in the Triple-F aesthetic (hereafter referred to as
"The Southgate School" or TSS), not defeating function isn't enough.
All choices must enhance or support functionality.

Gotcha, Jug!

TSS also involves the use of available materials and techniques,
usually from non-traditional sources. The rig pictured on my website
(known as the Southgate Type 7) was built almost entirely from reused/
recycled/recovered parts found at hamfests and in junkpiles. A few
crystals were bought new, as was the solder, but that's about it. The
main tuning capacitor is from a junked BC-221 frequency meter; the
dial drum is cut from a piece of Perspex tubing 6" in diameter that
came from a piece of industrial equipment, the VFO box was made (by
hand - hacksaw & flat file) from scraps of 3/32" thick aluminum plate,
etc., etc.

IOW, "found objects".

If you're willing to get dirty and are patient, it is possible to save a
bundle by using other people's castoffs.

There needs to be a chassis to place components on or in. Is
aluminum or steel or plastic more functional than brass?

Depends on the application.

For things like power supplies, steel is preferred due to greater
strength and some level of magnetic shielding. But steel must be
painted, plated or otherwise finished to prevent rust, particularly in
a basement shack where humidity may be high.

I'm going to use an old computer tower for a chassis/cabinet for a pair
of 4-400's I plan to build.

Brass has good conductivity and is easy to work, but it is heavy,
expensive, and rarer than aluminum or steel. There is some use of
brass in TSS, mostly for specialized applications where aluminum is
too soft and plating or painting steel is not practical. For example
in the Southgate Type 7, there is a shaft extender from the tuning
capacitor which I made from brass. You don't see it but it's there.

If you're building something small, try hobby shops. They often have
bins of both brass, copper and aluminum sheet in various thicknesses
along with round and square tubing and rod of the same materials.

there might be
some technical reasons fort one over the other, but in the end,
they are a support structure.

Agreed. I have used wood as well, in applications where shielding
wasn't important, or could be obtained in other ways.

Wood with a thin sheet of flashing aluminum is one way to get the shielding.

But copper plating has disadvantages too. One is that the copper
tarnishes over time. Another is that any break in the plating can set
up electrolytic corrosion. There's also the cost and relative
impracticality of copper-plating at home.

You can find a number of Heath and Drake units with really good looking
plating. I suspect that the problem units were stored in areas of high
humidity.

What Drake and others did was to plate the chassis after all the holes
were punched. That's fine for production-line manufactured rigs, but
if there's a possibility of future changes that require new holes, the
plating would be broken. So I stick with aluminum, steel, and
sometimes plastic and wood.

I think home plating of a large chassis would be so very time consuming
that not many would bother. It is also much easier to work aluminum
than steel. I wouldn't hesitate to break the copper plating for
modifying/repairing such equipment. A touch of lacquer on the edges
would keep air and humidity from getting to the steel.

TSS is about simplicity and functionality, not minimalism. If staining
or finishing improves the functionality, it is done. For example, the
shack tabletop consists of a layer of oriented strandboard (for
strength) topped by a layer of masonite (for a smooth hard surface).
This combination (actually a composite) was chosen because it was the
least expensive at the time. The masonite was given a couple of coats
of varnish because doing so improved the functionality.

The tempered Masonite, no doubt. The front panel of W4JBP's 1941
homebrew transmitter is of that stuff, painted black.

Possibly. I've had some experience building speaker cabinets (clones
of the Altec A-7 "Voice of the Theater", JBL folded horns, for
example) and the trick is to build solid from the beginning.

I've shared the experience and still remember all of the kerfing that
went into getting those curves right. Add a 15" Electrovoice SRO
speaker (which was about 3db better than anything else on the market at
the time), top is with some massive horn tweeters and you had something.

I've always wondered what the fascination with "antiques" is. I can
understand the fascination with craftsmanship, design, practicality
and materials, though.

I think there a couple of classes of antique furniture items. There are
those things which can only be viewed and those things which can be
used. A small, antique ladies chair might not be something you could
use, but an antique dining room suite or an antique sideboard can be
quite utilitarian.

The term I would use is "classic" or "timeless". Look at some Mission
or Shaker furniture - it does not appear "antique" or dated. That's
what TSS is all about, applied to Amateur Radio (and a limited
budget!)

I had to grin. I believe that 2x4's, 4x4's, plywood or hollow core
doors will never go out of style. There's no "Captain Nemo walking into
his cabin on the Nautilus" look here, but the place is attractive and
utilitarian.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:

I'm going to use an old computer tower for a chassis/cabinet for a pair
of 4-400's I plan to build.

I shouldn't post late at night when I'm tired. What I meant to say was
that I plan to use the old computer tower for the power supply, not the
entire amp.

Dave K8MN

On Mar 5, 3:20Â pm, Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 3, 2:40�pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

Agreed - but in the Triple-F aesthetic (hereafter referred to as
 "The Southgate School" or TSS), not defeating function isn't enoug
h.
All choices must enhance or support functionality.

Gotcha, Jug!

Marcellus? Is that you?

IOW, "found objects".

If you're willing to get dirty and are patient, it is possible to save a
bundle by using other people's castoffs.

Not only that, but make a dent in the enormous waste stream.

I'm going to use an old computer tower for a chassis/cabinet for

[the power supply of]

a pair
of 4-400's I plan to build.

You want a Southgate type number for it?

If you're building something small, try hobby shops. Â They often have

bins of both brass, copper and aluminum sheet in various thicknesses
along with round and square tubing and rod of the same materials.

Yes, but they want you to *buy* the stuff! My adapters were made from
scraps.

Wood with a thin sheet of flashing aluminum is one way to get the shieldin
g.

BTDT, except used old litho plates turned print-side-in.

TSS is about simplicity and functionality, not minimalism. If staining
or finishing improves the functionality, it is done. For example, the
shack tabletop consists of a layer of oriented strandboard (for
strength) topped by a layer of masonite (for a smooth hard surface).
This combination (actually a composite) was chosen because it was the
least expensive at the time. The masonite was given a couple of coats
of varnish because doing so improved the functionality.

The tempered Masonite, no doubt. Â The front panel of W4JBP's 1941
homebrew transmitter is of that stuff, painted black.

Exactly. Wood prices have changed, though; today a tabletop might be
AC plywood.
Depends what's on the cull cart.

Possibly. I've had some experience building speaker cabinets (clones
of the Altec A-7 "Voice of the Theater", JBL folded horns, for
example) and the trick is to build solid from the beginning.

I've shared the experience and still remember all of the kerfing that
went into getting those curves right. Â Add a 15" Electrovoice SRO
speaker (which was about 3db better than anything else on the market at
the time), top is with some massive horn tweeters and you had something.

The ones I helped build in the 1960s are still in service.

I've always wondered what the fascination with "antiques" is. I can
understand the fascination with craftsmanship, design, practicality
and materials, though.

I think there a couple of classes of antique furniture items. Â There
are
those things which can only be viewed and those things which can be
used. Â A small, antique ladies chair might not be something you could

use, but an antique dining room suite or an antique sideboard can be
quite utilitarian.

The former belongs in a museum, the latter in a home.

The term I would use is "classic" or "timeless". Look at some Mission
or Shaker furniture - it does not appear "antique" or dated. That's
what TSS is all about, applied to Amateur Radio (and a limited
budget!)

I had to grin. Â I believe that 2x4's, 4x4's, plywood or hollow core
doors will never go out of style.

I rip 2x4s in half lengthwise; they're all you need for most shack
furniture. Also do an offset cut that gives one piece 1-1/2" square
and another that's 2x1-1/2" from a single 2x4. Table saw makes it
easy.

I did one table with a hollow core door many years ago (it was free)
but they are too flimsy and too expensive for TSS approval now.

The shack table in the website picture was designed for Field Day use,
25 years ago. The top was the maximum size that would fit in the back
of a VW Rabbit with the rear seat taken out. All the legs and braces
are bolted on in such a way that the whole thing breaks down into one
package. Does the job for now but a replacement is in the works.
Maybe.

 There's no "Captain Nemo walking into
his cabin on the Nautilus" look here, but the place is attractive and
utilitarian.

IMHO the true art of a hamshack is having things set up in such a way
that you just want to sit down and start operating as soon as you see
the place.

73 de Jim, N2EY