Michael Coslo wrote:

side note: I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had hung a
data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the fan would
push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow, and it made a
pendulum. People were getting seasick!

All that for the lack of one, properly placed additional wire, heh.

My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation. The equipment has to sit on
something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed. I'm not going to remove
my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them. I don't
plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are a warm feeling
with an antique look where practical

That's easily and authentically achieved by obtaining an old wooden desk
and some genuine vintage equipment.

I have the castoff oak veneered desk from W8YX, the University of
Cincinnati ARC station. It is shown in a photo of the station which
appeared in a 1937 QST article about the Ohio River flood.

If I want a "thirties feel", I can fire up W4JBP's homebrew xtal
controlled 6L6 rig and pair it up with an HRO, SW-3, FB-7, an RME 69 or
a Hallicrafter Sky Challenger. If I want to move to the fifties, my
Johnson Valiant or Central 20-A might be paired with an HQ-70 or a
Collins 75A-3.

Dressing up modern technology to look as if it is powered by steam,
strikes me as more than a tad silly.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

side note: I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had hung
a data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the fan
would push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow, and it
made a pendulum. People were getting seasick!

All that for the lack of one, properly placed additional wire, heh.

Even with that, most buildings shake a little due to machinery, HVAC,
etc, and in the end, a projector mounted that way would be a problem.

My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation. The equipment has to sit
on something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed. I'm not going to
remove my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them.
I don't plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are a warm
feeling with an antique look where practical

That's easily and authentically achieved by obtaining an old wooden desk
and some genuine vintage equipment.

Oh yeah. I enjoy the look, and even went for it in a small way with some
tube equipment I bought a few years ago.

some snippage

Dressing up modern technology to look as if it is powered by steam,
strikes me as more than a tad silly.


Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm serious
art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples of the
genre are downright ridiculous - by design. Interviews with the creators
usually show them to have a great sense of humor, and that they enjoy
pulling our legs at times. But they want everyone in on the joke.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard on
the Stratocaster is beautiful.

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

Like keys for instance

Just look at say Begali keys. What workmanship and quality! These things
are true art. Other keys are gorgeous too. Even my modest Bencher has an
attractive look to it.

But most of that stuff isn't really needed. Certainly the Begali keys
are playfully experimental in nature, and the gold plating isn't really
needed, it's there for aesthetics.

And yet, I could go out to the garage, and make a serviceable paddle
with a piece of 2 by 4 and some springy metal.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

side note: I once went to a classroom where a true minimalist had
hung a data projector from the ceiling from wires. Problem was, the
fan would push the projector, only as far as the wires would allow,
and it made a pendulum. People were getting seasick!

All that for the lack of one, properly placed additional wire, heh.

Even with that, most buildings shake a little due to machinery,
HVAC, etc, and in the end, a projector mounted that way would be a problem.

Maybe. Another wire, mounted diagonally from the rear would have done
away with most of the pendulum action. If you're worried about
buildings shaking, even a steel mounted would have such vibrations
transfered to the projector. The wires might have even damped those
types of motion.

My thoughts are to make a setup that incorporates the aesthetic in a
fashion that is applicable to the situation. The equipment has to sit
on something, so it will be made in a fashion that involves natural
materials, and brass will be used where needed. I'm not going to
remove my radios from their cases and build wooden boxes around them.
I don't plan on overly embellishing the station, my goals are a warm
feeling with an antique look where practical

That's easily and authentically achieved by obtaining an old wooden
desk and some genuine vintage equipment.

Oh yeah. I enjoy the look, and even went for it in a small way with some
tube equipment I bought a few years ago.

In my Cincinnati basement shack, there was one desk on which everything
was all mid-1930's, all the time.

some snippage

Dressing up modern technology to look as if it is powered by steam,
strikes me as more than a tad silly.


Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm
serious art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples of
the genre are downright ridiculous - by design.

....and I'd go even further in saying that most of it is downright
ridiculous by design or otherwise.

Interviews with the
creators usually show them to have a great sense of humor, and that they
enjoy pulling our legs at times. But they want everyone in on the joke.

Kitsch is kitsch no matter who tosses the pillows with a flair.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard on
the Stratocaster is beautiful.

I own a perfectly good '73 Strat. I'm defacing it for no one.

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

It isn't evident here.

Like keys for instance

Just look at say Begali keys. What workmanship and quality! These things
are true art. Other keys are gorgeous too. Even my modest Bencher has an
attractive look to it.

Some guys like Picasso. Some like Wyeth. If you liked the Bencher,
you'd love the FYO keyer it is based on. Either a metal like brass or
nickel is needed or some sort of plating is necessary to keep the metal
from corroding/rusting.

But most of that stuff isn't really needed. Certainly the Begali keys
are playfully experimental in nature, and the gold plating isn't really
needed, it's there for aesthetics.

Some kind of plating or paint is needed and it isn't practical to paint
things like the threads of screws. Key's aren't designed to look as if
they're steam powered.

And yet, I could go out to the garage, and make a serviceable paddle
with a piece of 2 by 4 and some springy metal.

I think we could all agree that such a contraption would be ugly in the
eyes of most. Additionally, it wouldn't be likely to work very well.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in
:



Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

some snippage

Sorry for the late reply on this, esp since the thread has taken a
different direction, but I though it deserved a reply....


Maybe. Another wire, mounted diagonally from the rear would have done
away with most of the pendulum action. If you're worried about
buildings shaking, even a steel mounted would have such vibrations
transfered to the projector. The wires might have even damped those
types of motion.

Using wires does not work. The reason is that buildings do not shake in
the way most people think. The building may shake in one axis, and not
another, and may shake in multiple directions, but not the same amount in
all axes, or at the same time.

This will have the effect of pulling the entire assembly in one direction
or another, depending on "whats a-shakin'", and which wire is pulling
more at the moment.

However, on a good sturdy ceiling mount, that has a resonance frequency
as high as practical, building movement is not much of a problem, unless
the building is on the verge of shaking itself apart. The reason is that
rapid pendulum damping with little movement gets rid of pendulum moment,
and that most floors tend to shake closely with the ceiling on any given
level, so the people are moving along with the image and screen.

I've never seen a professional design with wires, although I've
seen a few designed by others, and they all have damping problems, all
related to the multifilar pendulums they create. Oddly, the wire systems
I've seen were "designed" and built by engineers who thought they could
remove all the filar pendulum movement by going multifilar. That
inherently creates more complexity in movement. The answer is in that the
projector on the end of that pendulum becomes very similar to a mirror
galvanometer, greatly amplifying the movement by the time the light hits
the wall.


Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm
serious art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples
of the genre are downright ridiculous - by design.

...and I'd go even further in saying that most of it is downright
ridiculous by design or otherwise.

There is room in this world for a lot of different tastes. Some I
like, some I do not. I am always careful to not call any of them
ridiculous so that I don't indadvertantly insult someone. 8^)

Kitsch is kitsch no matter who tosses the pillows with a flair.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on
the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard
on the Stratocaster is beautiful.

I own a perfectly good '73 Strat. I'm defacing it for no one.

I have a hard time agreeing that *that* Strat was defaced. I have a white
on white Strat myself, and am happy to keep it that way, but there are a
lot of places who do custom guitar work or design:

http://www.sparrowguitars.com/
http://www.terrapinguitars.com/
http://www.warmoth.com/

Even Fender:

http://www.fender.com/customshop/home/index.php

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

It isn't evident here.

I disagree, respectfully, more below.

snippage

Some kind of plating or paint is needed and it isn't practical to
paint things like the threads of screws. Key's aren't designed to
look as if they're steam powered.

Precious metal plating is not there because it is practical, all
those keys are quite embellished, and can we tell the difference between
a gold plated and a painted one in operation? They also have unneeded
shapes, and Mister Begali calls them art. I find them to be quite
beautiful, and a magnificent tour de force in mechanical design in the
prosaic function of a telegraph key, but would not try to argue that they
are somehow based on practicality.

That's pretty much my input on the subject until I have the operating are
designed and built. My shack may not be to everyone's tastes, but
hopefully I'll like it! 8^)

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote in
:



Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

some snippage

Sorry for the late reply on this, esp since the thread has taken a
different direction, but I though it deserved a reply....


Maybe. Another wire, mounted diagonally from the rear would have done
away with most of the pendulum action. If you're worried about
buildings shaking, even a steel mounted would have such vibrations
transfered to the projector. The wires might have even damped those
types of motion.

Using wires does not work. The reason is that buildings do not shake in
the way most people think. The building may shake in one axis, and not
another, and may shake in multiple directions, but not the same amount in
all axes, or at the same time.

Okay, so what you earlier described as the motor fan causing a pendulum
motion wasn't exactly correct then. What you've described could be
described as random orbital in nature or, at times, even multiple pendula.

This will have the effect of pulling the entire assembly in one direction
or another, depending on "whats a-shakin'", and which wire is pulling
more at the moment.

I'm thinking that if you've got a building doing *that much shaking*,
you've got more problems than a projector moving a bit.

However, on a good sturdy ceiling mount, that has a resonance frequency
as high as practical, building movement is not much of a problem, unless
the building is on the verge of shaking itself apart. The reason is that
rapid pendulum damping with little movement gets rid of pendulum moment,
and that most floors tend to shake closely with the ceiling on any given
level, so the people are moving along with the image and screen.

I'm getting dizzy already, Mike.

I've never seen a professional design with wires, although I've
seen a few designed by others, and they all have damping problems, all
related to the multifilar pendulums they create. Oddly, the wire systems
I've seen were "designed" and built by engineers who thought they could
remove all the filar pendulum movement by going multifilar. That
inherently creates more complexity in movement. The answer is in that the
projector on the end of that pendulum becomes very similar to a mirror
galvanometer, greatly amplifying the movement by the time the light hits
the wall.

This is getting really close to becoming a Cecil moment. :-)

Absolutely! This aesthetic is in no way saying "look at me! I'm
serious art!" I would go a little further to state that some examples
of the genre are downright ridiculous - by design.
...and I'd go even further in saying that most of it is downright
ridiculous by design or otherwise.

There is room in this world for a lot of different tastes. Some I
like, some I do not. I am always careful to not call any of them
ridiculous so that I don't indadvertantly insult someone. 8^)

You must never be so sensitive about what people might think of your
opinion that you become afraid to express it. If you think that a
certain style is kitschy or silly, you're permitted to say so. So am I.

Kitsch is kitsch no matter who tosses the pillows with a flair.

That being said, there are examples of great beauty in there, on
the
workshop page, the telegraph sounder was gorgeous, and the pick guard
on the Stratocaster is beautiful.

I own a perfectly good '73 Strat. I'm defacing it for no one.

I have a hard time agreeing that *that* Strat was defaced. I have a white
on white Strat myself, and am happy to keep it that way, but there are a
lot of places who do custom guitar work or design:

http://www.sparrowguitars.com/
http://www.terrapinguitars.com/
http://www.warmoth.com/

Even Fender:

http://www.fender.com/customshop/home/index.php

Sure. Places which will do nearly anything for a buck abound. Some of
the work is skillfully done, but still ends up looking tacky.

There is actually some of this aesthetic running about in Amateur
radio, even if we don't notice it.

It isn't evident here.

I disagree, respectfully, more below.

snippage

Some kind of plating or paint is needed and it isn't practical to
paint things like the threads of screws. Key's aren't designed to
look as if they're steam powered.

Precious metal plating is not there because it is practical, all
those keys are quite embellished, and can we tell the difference between
a gold plated and a painted one in operation?

No, we can't. That doesn't stop the gold plated one from looking better
to most of us. Gold doesn't oxidize the same as most other metals. It
doesn't need to be polished often. Gold in contacts is used where low
conact resistance is desired. In the old days, keys usually had
appreciable current running through them. With low current, solid state
circuits, a little oxidation on contacts can result in a keying circuit
malfunctioning.

No keys which are currently produced are made to look as if they're
steam powered.

They also have unneeded
shapes, and Mister Begali calls them art.

Some folks think an abstract painting done by a Chimpanzee is art. I
don't agree with them. Begali keys are well made. They're attractive
to some.

I find them to be quite
beautiful, and a magnificent tour de force in mechanical design in the
prosaic function of a telegraph key, but would not try to argue that they
are somehow based on practicality.

Keys got prosaic function? The Begalis, like all other keyer paddles
are designed to do a certain job. They can be as attractive as one can
make them, but if they cannot do the job reasonably well, they fail.

That's pretty much my input on the subject until I have the operating are
designed and built. My shack may not be to everyone's tastes, but
hopefully I'll like it! 8^)

You're the only guy who needs approve.

Dave K8MN