In ,
Alan typed, for some strange, unexplained
reason:

[snip]

: Well, "listening" generally is taken by an increasing number of
: folks as meaning you are listening, not that you are soliciting a call.
: If I hear it, and I also have some reason to talk to you, I may call.
: Of course, if I had something to call you about, the cellphone in my
: pocket probably already took care of that.
:
: If you want to talk to someone, call them, or call cq.

Now that's an interesting thought. When I was studying for my licence back
in 1982 we were told quite categorically that one didn't "call CQ" on
repeaters, but that we should announce that we were "listening through"
the repeater.

Even now, someone calling CQ via a repeater makes me wince ever so
slightly..!


73 Ivor G6URP

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


If we want to generate traffic on the repeaters, the simplest way is to
generate some traffic on them. Get a friend and talk on the thing. Next thing
you know, others will join you. If enough places do that, there will be plenty
of traffic.


I didn't make my point very well. We don't need to "generate traffic", we
simply need to clean out the dead "legacy" assignments and free up room for
things like DStar and other emerging technologies.

I just had a look at our local (Minneapolis/St Paul) pair assignments. In the
2M and 75CM bands there are 108 repeater pairs assigned. You read right --- ONE
HUNDRED AND EIGHT! Yet I can scan both bands for hours on end and hear nothing.

Since this thread is about the "5th Pillar" of ARRL emphasis, "technology",
perhaps ARRK and NFCC could jointly sponsor a Skimmer-like technology initiative
which would put up a broadband receiver on a local highrise (we're in flatland
country out here) and count squelch-tails per QRG for three months. Then
approach the low 10% and suggest they might reconsider their needs. Especially
those clubs who sponsor multiple quiet repeaters all covering an identical
footprint.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Ivor Jones wrote:
In ,
Alan typed, for some strange, unexplained
reason:

[snip]

: Well, "listening" generally is taken by an increasing number of
: folks as meaning you are listening, not that you are soliciting a call.
: If I hear it, and I also have some reason to talk to you, I may call.
: Of course, if I had something to call you about, the cellphone in my
: pocket probably already took care of that.
:
: If you want to talk to someone, call them, or call cq.

Now that's an interesting thought. When I was studying for my licence back
in 1982 we were told quite categorically that one didn't "call CQ" on
repeaters, but that we should announce that we were "listening through"
the repeater.

Even now, someone calling CQ via a repeater makes me wince ever so
slightly..!


73 Ivor G6URP


Ivor;

Amazing, that is what I was taught back in the mid 70's. Times they are
a changing....

Dave WD9BDZ

"Steve Bonine" wrote

It's a chicken and egg problem. I know that I'm contributing to the
problem; my 2-meter equipment consists of an HT, and I've considered
that I need to buy a "real" 2-meter rig and put up an antenna . . . but
it's difficult for me to justify the time and expense to do so when
there's no activity.

There used to be so much activity around here in Tucson a decade or more
ago, and I was active in it, but I suppose everyone migrated to the
internet... ? I thought about installing my 2m radio in my car so that I
have something to occupy part of my cross-country drive next year (I hope),
but maybe it's not worth it. If I knew there were folks along the way
regularly monitoring .52, I'd do it. If repeaters didn't have all these
different tone accesses, I'd do it. I'm not going to spend each night of the
trip programming the radio to accommodate what repeaters I may encounter for
any given upcoming 500 mile stretch.

Howard

In article ,
KØHB wrote:
I didn't make my point very well. We don't need to "generate traffic", we
simply need to clean out the dead "legacy" assignments and free up room for
things like DStar and other emerging technologies.

If you know a "dead" frequency pair, what interference do you imagine you
will create by using it for Dstar or other emerging technology? If you
aren't creating interference for a coordinated repeater, what prevents
you from using that pair?

which would put up a broadband receiver on a local highrise (we're in flatland
country out here) and count squelch-tails per QRG for three months.

I'm not sure how you count "squelch tails", but that's such a simple
system to game that it would mean nothing. If I wanted my pair kept
"active", I'd simply make a dozen calls a day on the output frequency. (Is
THAT what this QRG thing you keep talking about is? I don't speak CW
on Usenet.) Heck, I'd just set up an APRS beacon on the output. They have
squelch tails too.

Then
approach the low 10% and suggest they might reconsider their needs. Especially
those clubs who sponsor multiple quiet repeaters all covering an identical
footprint.

And then the stuff hits the fan and the groups that were going to support
the local hospital and power company and red cross and cop shop and road
department find themselves all trying to use the one or two repeaters
you'd like them to be limited to, while the DStar systems sit silent
because nobody could afford the radios to use them.

Mark Kramer wrote:
Steve Bonine wrote:
Better
to have two or three active repeaters in a metro area than a dozen dead
ones.

Until there is an emergency and those two or three repeaters aren't
sufficient to support the emergency services operations going on.

If there are a dozen repeaters with zero activity, most will go dead in
any disaster because it takes real human interest and work to provide
emergency power. I'd rather have two or three solid repeaters than a
dozen where the maintenance is hit-and-miss and there's no one who
really cares whether they are up or not.

73, Steve KB9X

Mark Kramer wrote:

So now it is also the responsibility of the repeater owner to protect
his investment in equipment by seeking people to use his repeater all
the time? Otherwise, it will be "housecleaned" out from under him?

KØHB wrote:

I just had a look at our local (Minneapolis/St Paul) pair
assignments. In the 2M and 75CM bands there are 108 repeater pairs
assigned.

There must be a compromise between these two opinions. There cannot be
108 active repeaters in one urban area. Frequency coordinators need a
way to reassign pairs that really are no longer being used.

73, Steve KB9X

"Mark Kramer" wrote in message
...


And then the stuff hits the fan and the groups that were going to support
the local hospital and power company and red cross and cop shop and road
department find themselves all trying to use the one or two repeaters
you'd like them to be limited to, while the DStar systems sit silent
because nobody could afford the radios to use them.


Hi again Mark,

Certainly there are places where there or only "one or two repeaters", but my
hypothetical example was built from my own local area where there are 108 pairs
assigned. If my PBI were implemented and the Repeater Council could harvest the
arbitrary 10% I mentioned, then there'd still be 97 legacy machines to choose
from, and 11 pairs opened for emerging technologies.

QSL?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Howard Lester wrote:
There used to be so much activity around here in Tucson a decade or more
ago, and I was active in it, but I suppose everyone migrated to the
internet... ? I thought about installing my 2m radio in my car so that I
have something to occupy part of my cross-country drive next year (I
hope),
but maybe it's not worth it. If I knew there were folks along the way
regularly monitoring .52, I'd do it. If repeaters didn't have all these
different tone accesses, I'd do it. I'm not going to spend each night of
the
trip programming the radio to accommodate what repeaters I may encounter
for
any given upcoming 500 mile stretch.

Howard

Hence, HF. You might hear more local activity on 10m. 80 or 40m during
daylight hours should also be good for local/regional activity.
Bryan WA7PRC

"Bryan"

Hence, HF. You might hear more local activity on 10m. 80 or 40m during
daylight hours should also be good for local/regional activity.
Bryan WA7PRC

Mr. Bryan,

I have neither the room in my car for my IC-735, nor the willingness to put
up a 4BTV on my car's plastic bumper. (You'll find them in the back by the
shipping area.)

;-)