On 11/15/2011 11:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Fairly close.. I have stood near a 5KW honda inverter type and it was,
like most all inverter types, fairly quiet

I've been near some fully enclosed jobs including Military types (and in
your size class that might be the way to go) that were not bad.. Flat
head 4 cylinder engine and enclosed generator makes for fairly soft
sound with a good muffler.

I've had a fully enclosed 1KW "Traditional" generator that when it comes
to nearly all specs save power out matched a Honda EU-2000i, This was a
true Killowatt generator (1,000 watts constant) sound level was close to
the Honda at full load (I think -59 DB) fuel consumption and weight all
close to the Honda 2000.

And of course "Contractor" models, which should come with ear plugs.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2101/4630 - Release Date: 11/21/11

On 11/22/2011 12:38 PM, John Davis wrote:
On 11/15/2011 11:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Fairly close.. I have stood near a 5KW honda inverter type and it was,
like most all inverter types, fairly quiet

I've been near some fully enclosed jobs including Military types (and in
your size class that might be the way to go) that were not bad.. Flat
head 4 cylinder engine and enclosed generator makes for fairly soft
sound with a good muffler.

I've had a fully enclosed 1KW "Traditional" generator that when it comes
to nearly all specs save power out matched a Honda EU-2000i, This was a
true Killowatt generator (1,000 watts constant) sound level was close to
the Honda at full load (I think -59 DB) fuel consumption and weight all
close to the Honda 2000.

And of course "Contractor" models, which should come with ear plugs.

It pays to check: I looked at a Briggs and Stratton 7KW unit that runs
on propane, and was astonished to see a noise rating of 72 db. The unit
is completely enclosed, and is intended for permanent installation, so
it boggles my mind that anyone would buy one unless they intend to have
a sound-dampening enclosure built around it after the installation.

Of course, noise is always a factor: even on outings like Field Day,
which is, after all, intended to simulate emergency conditions, it can
cause operator fatigue and errors. I once attended a Field Day in
California, and the noise from one of the generators was so intense that
the hams needed headphones just to hear the rigs.

What I want is a tri-fuel unit that will run on propane, diesel, or gas,
which has a sound rating below 60 db, which runs eight hours between
refuelings, and which costs less than $700. It's like the old joke from
the System Administrators: "'No bugs', 'Meets spec', 'On deadline': pick
two".

73,

Bill, W1AC

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/26/2011 12:09 AM, Bill Horne wrote:
On 11/22/2011 12:38 PM, John Davis wrote:
On 11/15/2011 11:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Fairly close.. I have stood near a 5KW honda inverter type and it was,
like most all inverter types, fairly quiet

I've been near some fully enclosed jobs including Military types (and in
your size class that might be the way to go) that were not bad.. Flat
head 4 cylinder engine and enclosed generator makes for fairly soft
sound with a good muffler.

I've had a fully enclosed 1KW "Traditional" generator that when it comes
to nearly all specs save power out matched a Honda EU-2000i, This was a
true Killowatt generator (1,000 watts constant) sound level was close to
the Honda at full load (I think -59 DB) fuel consumption and weight all
close to the Honda 2000.

And of course "Contractor" models, which should come with ear plugs.

It pays to check: I looked at a Briggs and Stratton 7KW unit that runs
on propane, and was astonished to see a noise rating of 72 db. The unit
is completely enclosed, and is intended for permanent installation, so
it boggles my mind that anyone would buy one unless they intend to have
a sound-dampening enclosure built around it after the installation.

Of course, noise is always a factor: even on outings like Field Day,
which is, after all, intended to simulate emergency conditions, it can
cause operator fatigue and errors. I once attended a Field Day in
California, and the noise from one of the generators was so intense that
the hams needed headphones just to hear the rigs.

What I want is a tri-fuel unit that will run on propane, diesel, or gas,
which has a sound rating below 60 db, which runs eight hours between
refuelings, and which costs less than $700. It's like the old joke from
the System Administrators: "'No bugs', 'Meets spec', 'On deadline': pick
two".


As a "for instance", I just looked at the specs of a B&S
Model 40248 that I saw on epay -

Output Sound Level . .81 dB(A) at 23 ft. (7 m) at full load

Which is, of course, of great concern. My advice is to assume that
you'll need to pay for additional sound dampening no matter what
generator you choose unless you have personal experience with the model
you're buying.

73,

Bill, W1AC


--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/25/2011 11:09 PM, Bill Horne wrote:
It pays to check: I looked at a Briggs and Stratton 7KW unit that runs
on propane, and was astonished to see a noise rating of 72 db. The unit
is completely enclosed, and is intended for permanent installation, so
it boggles my mind that anyone would buy one unless they intend to have
a sound-dampening enclosure built around it after the installation.

Yuppers, remember when I said build a fake BBQ unit to enclose things?

Again, the Honda EX4500S I have is rated at less than 52 dB. That's
moderately quiet and I find it easy to ignore.

Roughly, the Empire 12 KW genset with the Wisconsin VF4D engine was
not much noisier with an automotive muffler attached to it.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On 11/26/2011 12:09 AM, Bill Horne wrote:

What I want is a tri-fuel unit that will run on propane, diesel, or gas,
which has a sound rating below 60 db, which runs eight hours between
refuelings, and which costs less than $700. It's like the old joke from
the System Administrators: "'No bugs', 'Meets spec', 'On deadline': pick
two".

73,

Bill, W1AC


Finding one that runs on Gas, Diesel or Propane is going to be a
problem. Gas/Propane yes, Those/Diesel, not so easy.
--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4647 - Release Date: 11/29/11

On 11/29/2011 7:51 PM, John Davis wrote:
On 11/26/2011 12:09 AM, Bill Horne wrote:

What I want is a tri-fuel unit that will run on propane, diesel, or gas,
which has a sound rating below 60 db, which runs eight hours between
refuelings, and which costs less than $700. It's like the old joke from
the System Administrators: "'No bugs', 'Meets spec', 'On deadline': pick
two".

Finding one that runs on Gas, Diesel or Propane is going to be a
problem. Gas/Propane yes, Those/Diesel, not so easy.

Right now, I'd settle for any genset that won't break my budget and will
serve the purpose for three years. I was, of course, joking, but it
really does seem to be "Pick two": reliability and price come at the
expense of noise, etc.

For now, I'm looking around and hoping for an overstock sale that gets
me past my point of pain.

Bill, W1AC

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/29/2011 9:27 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

Right now, I'd settle for any genset that won't break my budget
and will serve the purpose for three years.

I would suggest the Honda "really quiet" series and then size it
at the minimum requirement for the heaviest load (by itself) then
select what runs at any given time instead of that.

(This is based on the serious bugaboo of cost/hour for fuel.)

Jeff

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On 11/29/2011 10:37 PM, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
On 11/29/2011 9:27 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

Right now, I'd settle for any genset that won't break my budget
and will serve the purpose for three years.

I would suggest the Honda "really quiet" series and then size it
at the minimum requirement for the heaviest load (by itself) then
select what runs at any given time instead of that.

(This is based on the serious bugaboo of cost/hour for fuel.)

Fuel costs aren't cheap, but that's less of a factor than you
might think: after all, when the power /is/ out, the cost of
fuel is balanced against the chance of freezing pipes or
spoiled food. Plus, frankly, there's more than a little bit
of "lookit me" factor: during the recent outage, even though
I was making do with a tiny 2KW set, the XYL was more than
happy that /her/ lights were on when everyone else's
were out.

Fuel consumption figures for gasoline gensets range from
0.5 gal/hour up to 1 gal/hour for the range of sets I'm
looking at: not cheap, but not a deal-breaker either[1].
Natural gas would run about $1/hour for my area, but the
gensets I've seen which will run on that fuel have
extraordinarily high noise ratings: one is 84 dba at
23 feet away!

This whole exercise reminds me of a public debate about
the appropriate size of a breakwater for a seaside
community: a Category-5 hurricane is "maybe", and
"someday", but the cost of cement is /right/ /now/.
The hardest part is figuring out how likely a power
failure is, and whether it is likely to last long
enough to cause a major loss.

73,

Bill, W1AC

1. If anyone knows how to get "off road" gasoline, where
the price doesn't include road taxes, please tell me. They
have "off road" diesel fuel, but I don't know about gas.

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/29/2011 11:19 PM, Bill Horne wrote:
Plus, frankly, there's more than a little bit
of "lookit me" factor: during the recent outage, even though
I was making do with a tiny 2KW set, the XYL was more than
happy that /her/ lights were on when everyone else's
were out.

Back in Culver City living with a friend. We had a short power
outage at their place. Christmas eve.

I fired up the EX4500S generator with the transfer switch
and lit up all 750 watts of Christmas lights around the
house.

We were the ONLY Christmas lights you could see for a mile
in any direction.

Yes, that definitely won me some "Atta-boy" points.

Also, the costs of transfer switches being what they are, Bill
sent me a WONDERFUL link of an innovative kit for retro-fitting
your existing service panel.

I have to spread this one around.

http://www.interlockkit.com/intro2.htm

Also, check the links section for some very good information on
not killing yourself or your utility workers.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:19:41 EST, Bill Horne
wrote:

1. If anyone knows how to get "off road" gasoline, where
the price doesn't include road taxes, please tell me. They
have "off road" diesel fuel, but I don't know about gas.

You buy the gasoline with the road taxes, and apply for a rebate.
The USA Internal Revenue has a form for it:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4136.pdf
USA states have their own rebate programs. Search Google for
"Fuel Rebate your state name"

Dick Grady, AC7EL