Why not just do it right to start with? My gas appliances (furnace, stove,
hot water) are fueled with propane in an underground tank. Yes, propane is
expensive. When I moved to this house my first major purchase was a 10kw
Guardian standby generator hooked to the propane tank. Within 5 days after
the thing was installed, the power went out.... The generator has been a
Godsend out here.

Howard N7SO
upstate NY

On 11/11/2011 20 04, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:12:31 EST, Jeffrey
wrote:

Both propane, gasoline and diesel require electrical service
to run the pumps. And tanks that need to be refilled.

And good luck getting a permit for any decent-sized tank for those
fuels in any residential area. I'm talking about 96-hour capacity,
not a five-gallon Jerry can.

If one is lucky enough to live in an area which is served by natural
gas, a generator powered by that fuel would be an economical alternative
without the necessity of have a fuel dump as part of the yard.

The outfit found at the url below can show you how to inexpensively
convert a gasoline generator to natural gas or, if you aren't in an area
where that fuel is available, to propane.

http://www.propane-generators.com/

73,

Dave Heil K8MN

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:51:26 EST, Dave Heil
wrote:

If one is lucky enough to live in an area which is served by natural
gas, a generator powered by that fuel would be an economical alternative
without the necessity of have a fuel dump as part of the yard.

Not only that, natural gas is lighter-than-air so if there is a leak,
there's less of a problem than LPG which is heavier than air and would
accumulate until it finds a source of ignition and blooie! A friend
of mine learned that the hard way when a leaky BBQ bottle caused a
fire that burned down half his house including a library of special
books and writings that he had inherited from his scholar father.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

On 11/12/2011 7:51 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
On 11/11/2011 20 04, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:12:31 EST, Jeffrey
wrote:

Both propane, gasoline and diesel require electrical service
to run the pumps. And tanks that need to be refilled.

And good luck getting a permit for any decent-sized tank for those
fuels in any residential area. I'm talking about 96-hour capacity,
not a five-gallon Jerry can.

If one is lucky enough to live in an area which is served by natural
gas, a generator powered by that fuel would be an economical alternative
without the necessity of have a fuel dump as part of the yard.

The outfit found at the url below can show you how to inexpensively
convert a gasoline generator to natural gas or, if you aren't in an area
where that fuel is available, to propane.

http://www.propane-generators.com/

Thanks for the info: the kits are in the ~$150 range, so they're
affordable. I'm still looking for fuel cost figures from those who
have used Propane-powered gensets - I assume that gas units converted
to propane would be in the same cost range - so that I can make an
informed decision.

There is, of course, a "two-hundred pound gorilla" in the room: fuel
costs are usually minor compared to the cost of spoiled food, frozen
pipes, etc., so let me reassure everyone that I'm not looking for a
tiny difference. I'm just worried about getting a $1,000 gas bill if I
run a natural-gas powered generator for a week: we're not in need of a
fine-grained analysis here.

73,

Bill, W1AC



--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/11/2011 3:04 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:12:31 EST, Jeffrey
wrote:

Both propane, gasoline and diesel require electrical service
to run the pumps. And tanks that need to be refilled.

And good luck getting a permit for any decent-sized tank for those
fuels in any residential area. I'm talking about 96-hour capacity,
not a five-gallon Jerry can.

My class A holds 70 gallons of gasoline, Some Diesel Pushers hold 2 or 3
hundred gallons. In both cases a 5,000 watt generator burns less than 1
per hour at normal loads.

Plus, unless the roads are blocked, if you have smaller containers (I
don't recommend jerry cans but Eagle Gas cans are good) you can travel
to where the pumps pump.. The first time I went out for a Generator and
fuel that was only about a one hour drive at freeway speeds (60 miles)
That was blackout 2003 as I recall.

I would love to get that generator back too.. It grew legs amd walked
off on me. If anyone sees a GENRAC 1000 (1KW fully enclosed
traditional generator,, by the way this one compares both in weight,
size, fuel consumption and sound with the Honda EF-2000i) with my call
on it.... Let me (And the Redford Michigan Police) know please.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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On 11/11/2011 10:12 AM, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

The biggest problem is the exhaust. If you can get a larger
muffler in addition to the one that it comes with, that's a
step in the right direction. The next problem is mechanical
noise. Most open frame generators sound like a blender full
of rocks.


With the Honda "I" series generators (Like the ef3000i) you are correct
that the largest noise is exhaust.

With many "Contractor" type generators, like the 300 dollar 3500 watt
job down at pep boys, it's mechanical noise plus exhaust.

I saw a demo of a Yahama EU-2400i one day (This is a true 2,000 watt
inverter generator 2000 continous and 2400 peak) This was at a rally so
there was rather a lot of crowd noise to deal with but.

Though I could hear the thing at idle... the salesman could not (The
1200-i I could not hear at idle) as you might safely assume, Many Ham
radio operators are used to "listening through noise" add to that 25
years on the police dispatch desk.

At half load we did not have to raise our voices

At full load, With one foot literally on top of the generator, it got
loud enough that we had to speak up.

Think about this "noise" level.. And recall we were close enough to
FEEL the exhaust.. I've not done this kind of test with the HONDA but
the spec sheet puts them ONE DB louder.... Just one.


--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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On 11/14/2011 1:27 AM, John Davis wrote:

I saw a demo of a Yahama EU-2400i one day (This is a true 2,000 watt
inverter generator 2000 continous and 2400 peak) This was at a rally so
there was rather a lot of crowd noise to deal with but.

Though I could hear the thing at idle... the salesman could not (The
1200-i I could not hear at idle) as you might safely assume, Many Ham
radio operators are used to "listening through noise" add to that 25
years on the police dispatch desk.

At half load we did not have to raise our voices

At full load, With one foot literally on top of the generator, it got
loud enough that we had to speak up.

Think about this "noise" level.. And recall we were close enough to FEEL
the exhaust.. I've not done this kind of test with the HONDA but the
spec sheet puts them ONE DB louder.... Just one.

Please pass along any URL's that show side-by-side comparisons of the
sound output of the various generators in the "5KW" class. I'd also like
to see a chart that compares sound levels with common sources: "quiet as
a church mouse" up to "Chain saw", and four or five steps in between.

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

TIA.

Bill, W1AC

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/15/2011 10:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:
Please pass along any URL's that show side-by-side comparisons of the
sound output of the various generators in the "5KW" class. I'd also like
to see a chart that compares sound levels with common sources: "quiet as
a church mouse" up to "Chain saw", and four or five steps in between.

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

TIA.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/Generators/

Check out the tools and resources sidebar.

Also, the infamous sales brochure. But still a good deal
of comparison information.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/pdf/Brochures/generator_brochure.pdf

No, I don't work for Honda. Yes, I'm quite pleased with the
Honda stuff I own.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On 11/16/2011 04 20, Bill Horne wrote:

Please pass along any URL's that show side-by-side comparisons of the
sound output of the various generators in the "5KW" class. I'd also like
to see a chart that compares sound levels with common sources: "quiet as
a church mouse" up to "Chain saw", and four or five steps in between.

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Here's my unscientific response:

We've used N8NN's little 1 KW Honda for a number of Field Day
operations. At 100 feet away, it is difficult to hear at a half load.

The 3 KW generator I used to own had a Briggs and Stratton engine. It
was very, very loud.

My current generator is a 4 KW Craftsman/Generac. It is less than half
as loud as the Briggs.

73,

Dave Heil K8MN

On 11/15/2011 11:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Fairly close.. I have stood near a 5KW honda inverter type and it was,
like most all inverter types, fairly quiet

I've been near some fully enclosed jobs including Military types (and in
your size class that might be the way to go) that were not bad.. Flat
head 4 cylinder engine and enclosed generator makes for fairly soft
sound with a good muffler.

I've had a fully enclosed 1KW "Traditional" generator that when it comes
to nearly all specs save power out matched a Honda EU-2000i, This was a
true Killowatt generator (1,000 watts constant) sound level was close to
the Honda at full load (I think -59 DB) fuel consumption and weight all
close to the Honda 2000.

And of course "Contractor" models, which should come with ear plugs.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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