On 11/12/2011 7:51 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
On 11/11/2011 20 04, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:12:31 EST, Jeffrey
wrote:

Both propane, gasoline and diesel require electrical service
to run the pumps. And tanks that need to be refilled.

And good luck getting a permit for any decent-sized tank for those
fuels in any residential area. I'm talking about 96-hour capacity,
not a five-gallon Jerry can.

If one is lucky enough to live in an area which is served by natural
gas, a generator powered by that fuel would be an economical alternative
without the necessity of have a fuel dump as part of the yard.

The outfit found at the url below can show you how to inexpensively
convert a gasoline generator to natural gas or, if you aren't in an area
where that fuel is available, to propane.

http://www.propane-generators.com/

Thanks for the info: the kits are in the ~$150 range, so they're
affordable. I'm still looking for fuel cost figures from those who
have used Propane-powered gensets - I assume that gas units converted
to propane would be in the same cost range - so that I can make an
informed decision.

There is, of course, a "two-hundred pound gorilla" in the room: fuel
costs are usually minor compared to the cost of spoiled food, frozen
pipes, etc., so let me reassure everyone that I'm not looking for a
tiny difference. I'm just worried about getting a $1,000 gas bill if I
run a natural-gas powered generator for a week: we're not in need of a
fine-grained analysis here.

73,

Bill, W1AC



--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/25/2011 11:35 PM, Bill Horne wrote:
There is, of course, a "two-hundred pound gorilla" in the room: fuel
costs are usually minor compared to the cost of spoiled food, frozen
pipes, etc., so let me reassure everyone that I'm not looking for a
tiny difference. I'm just worried about getting a $1,000 gas bill if I
run a natural-gas powered generator for a week: we're not in need of a
fine-grained analysis here.

Ok, first off, an assumption. I'll go with the numbers I know.
My Honda EX4500S takes roughly 1 gallon / hour.
1 week = 168 hours.
168 hours x $3.50/gallon = $588.00

I stumbled across a "Cost of heating" chart, and I'm going to
assume that the relative fuel costs for heating would be similar.
So...

Gasoline = $588
Diesel = $620
Natural Gas = $582
Propane = $536
Electricity = $90

The differences are fairly small compared to one another. The real
problem is the apparent 15% efficiency of running a generator vs
using the wall outlet.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On 11/26/2011 2:28 AM, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
On 11/25/2011 11:35 PM, Bill Horne wrote:
There is, of course, a "two-hundred pound gorilla" in the room: fuel
costs are usually minor compared to the cost of spoiled food, frozen
pipes, etc., so let me reassure everyone that I'm not looking for a
tiny difference. I'm just worried about getting a $1,000 gas bill if I
run a natural-gas powered generator for a week: we're not in need of a
fine-grained analysis here.

Ok, first off, an assumption. I'll go with the numbers I know.
My Honda EX4500S takes roughly 1 gallon / hour.
1 week = 168 hours.
168 hours x $3.50/gallon = $588.00

I stumbled across a "Cost of heating" chart, and I'm going to
assume that the relative fuel costs for heating would be similar.
So...

Gasoline = $588
Diesel = $620
Natural Gas = $582
Propane = $536
Electricity = $90

The differences are fairly small compared to one another. The real
problem is the apparent 15% efficiency of running a generator vs
using the wall outlet.

Jeff,

Thanks for the info. That's a good comparison.

Now what I need is information about the /reliability/ of the various
products and models. What /really/ scares me is the chance of finding
out that I bought a "light duty" engine that has just thrown a rod in
the middle of Field Day. Does anyone have a side-by-side
comparison of the various makes and models, along with a "plain
English" explanation of what code words like "emergency service"
mean?

TIA.

73,

Bill, W1AC

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/26/2011 10:29 AM, Bill Horne wrote:
Thanks for the info. That's a good comparison.

Now what I need is information about the /reliability/ of the various
products and models. What /really/ scares me is the chance of finding
out that I bought a "light duty" engine that has just thrown a rod in
the middle of Field Day. Does anyone have a side-by-side
comparison of the various makes and models, along with a "plain
English" explanation of what code words like "emergency service"
mean?

That takes a bit of digging and interpretation.

Simply put though, All 5000 watt generators claim to put
out 5000 watts. Most will say "Peak" NOT "continuous."

Secondly, check the physical HP size of the motor they
use for said "continuous" output.

As an example... Three generators rated at 5000 watts.

Brand X 4000 watts continuous. 8 HP

Brand Y 4500 watts continuous. 10 HP

Brand Z 3500 watts continuous. 7 HP

I would go with Brand Y. Brand X has a smaller engine so
it's going to work harder, even at 4000 watts, and Brand
Z is just an engine failure waiting to happen.

"Emergency Service" either means it's a reliable set up,
or it's marketing speak for unreliable. It can also mean
the engine/generator isn't really designed for continuous
duty. Which is kind of silly considering that in the event
of an emergency, you NEED to run the stuff continuously.


Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"