wrote:
wrote:
On 30 Sep 2006 22:36:54 -0700, "
wrote:

From: Nada Tapu on Sat, Sep 30 2006 2:23 pm


On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:56:08 -0400, wrote:
no slow code the number are down because with Code testing looks so
stpupid
The numbers are down for a variety of reasons, but I suspect that
computers and the internet are the major factors, not the CW
requirement.
The ready-built Personal Computer first appeared in 1976,
30 years ago (the "IBM PC" debuted in 1980, 26 years ago).
The Internet went public in 1991, 15 years ago.
"Restructuring" to drop the morse test rate to 5 WPM
for all such tests happened only 6 years ago.

The peak licensing of 737,938 happened on 2 Jul 03, just
3 years ago. [they've been dropping at an average of 7K
per year ever since]

I disagree on your reasons stated in your quote above.

When I ask technical people about why they haven't
acquired an interest in amateur radio, I never get the CW requirement
as a response.
Strange, I hear that response. Having been IN radio-
electronics for over a half century, I DO know some
"technical people." :-)

Manual radiotelegraphy was a MUST to use early radio
as a communications medium. The technology of early
radio was primitive, simple, and not yet developed.
On-off keying was the ONLY practical way to make it
possible to communicate. Morse code was then already
mature and a new branch of communications was open
to use by downsized landline telegraphers.

They simply view the whole service as outmoded in the
face of modern telecommunications.
PART of that IS true. NOT all of it.

What IS outmoded (technically) is sitting only on HF
and "working" other stations with morse radiotelegraphy.
Amateur radio is the ONLY radio service still using
morse radiotelegraphy for communications purposes.

Another thing outmoded is the strict "necessity" to use
a formalism in "procedure" AS IF it was "professional"
radio. That formalism was established between 50 to 70
years ago. Amateur radio, by definition, is NOT
professional. Too many olde-tymers want to PRETEND
they are pros in front of their ham rigs.

But, there is still an enormous area of the EM spectrum
that is still open for experimentation, for just the fun
of doing something out of the ordinary above 30 MHz.
That can be a very different RF environment, much much
different than the technology available in the 20s and
30s. It has exciting possibilities...except for the
rutted and mired olde-tymers unable to keep up with new
things, secure in their own dreams of youth and simple
technological environment.

Let's face it.. the romance is gone.
Oh, boo hoo...the "romance" of the 1930s is gone? Yes,
it IS. The "pioneering of the airwaves" below 30 MHz
has been DONE...mostly by the pros of radio (despite what
the ARRL claims). DONE a long time ago. The solid-state
era came into being about 45 years ago and has
revolutionized ALL electronics (radio is a subset of that).

Except as memorabilia trinkets of the past, GONE is the
analog VFO, GONE is the one-tube regenerative receiver,
GONE is the single-crystal-single-frequency Tx, GONE is
the big, bulky AM modulator amplifier, GONE is the not-
knowing-when-the-bands-are-open (solar activity and
ionosonding solved that and HF MUF is a predictable
item that can be found by a computer program). Except
for the boatanchor afficionados, vacuum tubes are GONE
for nearly everything but high-power transmitters.

The radio world of today is NOT that of 1950, nor of
1960, nor 1970, nor even 1980s. It keeps changing,
advancing, the state of the art never static. For the
stuck-in-the-mud olde tymers that is terrible...they
feel insecure on not being able to keep up, become
aggressive to newcomers ("no kids, lids or space
cadets") and retreat to the "secure" mode of their
youth, "CW." But, they want to make sure They get
the respect they feel they've "earned" (as if) so
they try and try and try to bring all down to THEIR
level...the code test MUST stay..."because."

There are 100 million two-way radios in use in the USA
alone, millions more in other countries. Those are the
cellular telephones. There are millions of VHF and UHF
transceivers in the USA, working daily for public
safety agencies, ships, private boats, air carriers as
well as private airplanes. There are tens of thousands
of HF transceivers in use in the USA, users being
everyone from government agencies to private boat
owners, ALL exclusive of amateur radio users. Where is
the "romance" in all this Plenty from a cornucopia that
all have grabbed? It is GONE, yes.

But, NEW "romances" await. DIFFERENT ones, I'd say a
helluva lot more complex than old, simple "radio." We
can't relive old "romances" except in our minds and we
can't grow physically younger. Only person-to-person
romance is TRUE, the other "romance" is of the
imagination, of the fantasy of what was once there.
This fantasy "romance" can't be brought back. It can't
be legislated into remaining static. The rules and
regulations have to change to keep up with the NOW.
a nice peice of writing stored I may lift a peice or for something I
am working on

Thank you. Feel free to use any part. I would be nice to
get credit for it, a common courtesy.

If I decide to reproduce your classic, first person account of what it
is like to undergo an artillery barrage, you can be sure that I'll give
you full credit.

"Magic" is a subjective term. The "magic" of HF worldwide comms
dissolved into reality for me in 1953 on seeing...

balance of rant snipped when it became apparent that another retelling
of Len's military experiences of a half century ago was in the making

(superfluous newsgroups trimmed)

Dave K8MN

Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:
What IS outmoded (technically) is sitting only on HF
and "working" other stations with morse radiotelegraphy.
Amateur radio is the ONLY radio service still using
morse radiotelegraphy for communications purposes.

Actually Len, almost all amateur radio operation has
been outmoded by advancing technology which has made
amateur radio first to be redundant and later to be
obsolete. I'm still using the same modes for amateur
radio that I used more than half a century ago.

That is true in essence for all those who "work DX on HF
with CW." :-)

Some will point to modern techniques in radio (DDS, PLL
frequency control, solid-state PAs that need no tuning
controls, etc.) as being advancements. Trouble is, those
advancements came from the designers-manufacturers,
advancements to capture market share of ham consumer
electronics. Using only on-off keying with a state-of-the-
art transceiver seems a waste of available resources in
that equipment.

My daughter lives in New York state. 50 years ago,
I would have tried to talk her into getting a ham
license. Today, Sprint cellphones allow the two of
us to communicate any time, day or night, for free.

One in three Americans has a cell phone now
according to the US Census Bureau. Each cell
phone is basically a little two-way radio.

No "CW" test is needed to use a cell phone. :-)

I just completed an exchange of files (including hi-
resolution photographs) this morning with another
in Europe. Took only a few minutes. The Internet
stretches over most of the globe, is unaffected by any
ionospheric variation. Those files couldn't be
exchanged via "CW" on HF. [maybe the "phase
shift" impairs such information transfer...:-) ]

No "CW" test is needed to use the Internet. :-)

But, in 2006 the FCC regulations still require any radio
amateur to test for "CW" in order to operate on bands
below 30 MHz. None of the other radio services
require that. shrug

wrote:
wrote:
From: Nada Tapu on Sat, Sep 30 2006 2:23 pm

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:56:08 -0400, wrote:

no slow code the number are down because with Code testing looks so
stpupid

The numbers are down for a variety of reasons, but I suspect that
computers and the internet are the major factors, not the CW
requirement.

The ready-built Personal Computer first appeared in 1976,
30 years ago (the "IBM PC" debuted in 1980, 26 years ago).
The Internet went public in 1991, 15 years ago.
"Restructuring" to drop the morse test rate to 5 WPM
for all such tests happened only 6 years ago.

The peak licensing of 737,938 happened on 2 Jul 03, just
3 years ago. [they've been dropping at an average of 7K
per year ever since]

I disagree on your reasons stated in your quote above.

Ronald Reagan once said, "Facts are stupid things."

Heh. But, in here, coders are the only ones with "facts." Anything
a no-coder says is "wrong," "in error" and other endearments. :-)

When I ask technical people about why they haven't
acquired an interest in amateur radio, I never get the CW requirement
as a response.

Strange, I hear that response. Having been IN radio-
electronics for over a half century, I DO know some
"technical people." :-)

It IS the Code.

True enough. But...the coders HAVE their rank-status-
privileges and seem to enjoy looking down on no-coders.
All must do as they did or be called "wrong" or "in error."

Manual radiotelegraphy was a MUST to use early radio
as a communications medium. The technology of early
radio was primitive, simple, and not yet developed.
On-off keying was the ONLY practical way to make it
possible to communicate. Morse code was then already
mature and a new branch of communications was open
to use by downsized landline telegraphers.

Telegraph.

Early radio was just a telegraph system without poles and
wires between stations. Mythical tales have turned early radio
into something greater than rocket science.

They simply view the whole service as outmoded in the
face of modern telecommunications.

PART of that IS true. NOT all of it.

What IS outmoded (technically) is sitting only on HF
and "working" other stations with morse radiotelegraphy.
Amateur radio is the ONLY radio service still using
morse radiotelegraphy for communications purposes.

Another thing outmoded is the strict "necessity" to use
a formalism in "procedure" AS IF it was "professional"
radio. That formalism was established between 50 to 70
years ago. Amateur radio, by definition, is NOT
professional. Too many olde-tymers want to PRETEND
they are pros in front of their ham rigs.

But, there is still an enormous area of the EM spectrum
that is still open for experimentation, for just the fun
of doing something out of the ordinary above 30 MHz.

ABOVE 30 mhz? Hmmmm?

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/09/26/101/?nc=1

Ah, yes, the Great 500 KHz "Experiment." AS IF the 500 KHz
region hasn't ALREADY had 80 years plus of determining
whether or not it works for communications! :-)

Good old League, leading all "Back to the Future." :-)

That can be a very different RF environment, much much
different than the technology available in the 20s and
30s. It has exciting possibilities...except for the
rutted and mired olde-tymers unable to keep up with new
things, secure in their own dreams of youth and simple
technological environment.

Let's face it.. the romance is gone.

Oh, boo hoo...the "romance" of the 1930s is gone? Yes,
it IS. The "pioneering of the airwaves" below 30 MHz
has been DONE...mostly by the pros of radio (despite what
the ARRL claims). DONE a long time ago.

Then why are we: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/09/26/101/?nc=1

It's about the same as those who love to Re-Enact the
American Civil War or the American Revolutionary War.
Play-acting at "pioneering" over 8 decades after that
frequency region was picked for the first maritime distress
and safety reserved frequency.

The solid-state
era came into being about 45 years ago and has
revolutionized ALL electronics (radio is a subset of that).

Except as memorabilia trinkets of the past, GONE is the
analog VFO, GONE is the one-tube regenerative receiver,
GONE is the single-crystal-single-frequency Tx, GONE is
the big, bulky AM modulator amplifier, GONE is the not-
knowing-when-the-bands-are-open (solar activity and
ionosonding solved that and HF MUF is a predictable
item that can be found by a computer program). Except
for the boatanchor afficionados, vacuum tubes are GONE
for nearly everything but high-power transmitters.

The radio world of today is NOT that of 1950, nor of
1960, nor 1970, nor even 1980s. It keeps changing,
advancing, the state of the art never static. For the
stuck-in-the-mud olde tymers that is terrible...they
feel insecure on not being able to keep up, become
aggressive to newcomers ("no kids, lids or space
cadets") and retreat to the "secure" mode of their
youth, "CW." But, they want to make sure They get
the respect they feel they've "earned" (as if) so
they try and try and try to bring all down to THEIR
level...the code test MUST stay..."because."

There are 100 million two-way radios in use in the USA
alone, millions more in other countries. Those are the
cellular telephones. There are millions of VHF and UHF
transceivers in the USA, working daily for public
safety agencies, ships, private boats, air carriers as
well as private airplanes. There are tens of thousands
of HF transceivers in use in the USA, users being
everyone from government agencies to private boat
owners, ALL exclusive of amateur radio users. Where is
the "romance" in all this Plenty from a cornucopia that
all have grabbed? It is GONE, yes.

But, NEW "romances" await. DIFFERENT ones, I'd say a
helluva lot more complex than old, simple "radio." We
can't relive old "romances" except in our minds and we
can't grow physically younger. Only person-to-person
romance is TRUE, the other "romance" is of the
imagination, of the fantasy of what was once there.
This fantasy "romance" can't be brought back. It can't
be legislated into remaining static. The rules and
regulations have to change to keep up with the NOW.

Ore even to move us into the future... Leadership.

"Ore" from a mine. The pro-coders say "I've got mine, nya-nya."

It's getting to be "Back to the Future, Part Infinity" if things
like the Great 500 KHz Experiment is a sign of things to
come from the "representative of all amateurs" in Newington.

Their other "Experiment" is a "contest" to see who can best
come up with a whole ham station for LESS than $50 in new
part costs. Whoever "wins" that gets a really hefty prize of
$100 cash and Publication in QST! Oh, and it is 40 meters
only, but "allows" SSB voice to be included. :-)

wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:
What IS outmoded (technically) is sitting only on HF
and "working" other stations with morse radiotelegraphy.
Amateur radio is the ONLY radio service still using
morse radiotelegraphy for communications purposes.

Actually Len, almost all amateur radio operation has
been outmoded by advancing technology which has made
amateur radio first to be redundant and later to be
obsolete. I'm still using the same modes for amateur
radio that I used more than half a century ago.

That is true in essence for all those who "work DX on HF
with CW." :-)

It is true of those who listen to the medium wave broadcast band and the
FM broadcast band. It is true of most of those who tune the short wave
broadcast bands. Go figure!

Some will point to modern techniques in radio (DDS, PLL
frequency control, solid-state PAs that need no tuning
controls, etc.) as being advancements. Trouble is, those
advancements came from the designers-manufacturers,
advancements to capture market share of ham consumer
electronics. Using only on-off keying with a state-of-the-
art transceiver seems a waste of available resources in
that equipment.

Using the latest technology to listen to a ball game transmitted using
amplitude modulation is a waste of valuable resources.

My daughter lives in New York state. 50 years ago,
I would have tried to talk her into getting a ham
license. Today, Sprint cellphones allow the two of
us to communicate any time, day or night, for free.

One in three Americans has a cell phone now
according to the US Census Bureau. Each cell
phone is basically a little two-way radio.

No "CW" test is needed to use a cell phone. :-)

No, Len, it isn't. No license exam at all is required. You are
qualified to use a cell phone. If you want to work some DX, you are
free to see how far from a tower you can be and still make one work.
You can even set up a random dialer in order to fish for "contacts". :-)

I just completed an exchange of files (including hi-
resolution photographs) this morning with another
in Europe. Took only a few minutes. The Internet
stretches over most of the globe, is unaffected by any
ionospheric variation.

Wow! I wonder why that might be. Do you suppose that it is because that
most of the internet is linked by wires and the parts that aren't use
frequencies that are capable only of relatively short distances where
ionospheric variations aren't applicable? As with cell phone use, you
meet the qualifications to use the internet.


But, in 2006 the FCC regulations still require any radio
amateur to test for "CW" in order to operate on bands
below 30 MHz.

Imagine that!

None of the other radio services
require that. shrug

Then perhaps amateur radio is the wrong radio service for you. You
might choose one which doesn't require testing and which will permit you
to exchange high speed digital data.


See IEEE Code of Ethics

(superfluous newsgroup trimmed)

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:

But, in 2006 the FCC regulations still require any radio
amateur to test for "CW" in order to operate on bands
below 30 MHz.

Imagine that!

inde it is hard to image and frankly draws laughter in many quarters

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:

No "CW" test is needed to use a cell phone. :-)

No, Len, it isn't. No license exam at all is required. You are
qualified to use a cell phone. If you want to work some DX, you are
free to see how far from a tower you can be and still make one work.
cut the **** dave you just can accept the free speech belongs to him
and me

an old friend wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:

No "CW" test is needed to use a cell phone. :-)

No, Len, it isn't. No license exam at all is required. You are
qualified to use a cell phone. If you want to work some DX, you are
free to see how far from a tower you can be and still make one work.

cut the **** dave you just can accept the free speech belongs to him
and me

Heil MUST interject and snarl some sarcasm into any no-code-
test advocates' posting to another. He can't understand any
radio system that isn't done via the amateur radio way, "his"
way.

As a matter of fact, last year on a return auto trip from the
midwest, my wife used our cell phone all along the highways
from Iowa into Nevada, talking to her sister in Washington
state, inquiring of and making reservations at new motels
along the way, catching up on e-mail by getting them through
the cell phone as audio...all from inside the car. No problems,
no drop-outs.

Any cellular telephone in the USA has the capability of direct-
dialing any other telephone, including foreign countries which
have direct dialing to their subscribers' numbers. That's a
plain and simple fact. Amateur radio can't do that anywhere
in the world 24/7; cell phones can. That's another plain and
simple fact. Each cell phone is a two-way radio, an "HT,"
but full-duplex instead of the ham half-duplex HT.

But, Heil MUST sound off like he is "superior" in radio so he
does postings, many postings, editing quotes to fit his
attack agenda du jour. That's okay, though, he is an amateur
extra morseman and they seem to be exempt in behavior;
us no-code-test advocates are NOT exempt, must play the
role of boys from some absurd version of "Oliver Twist."
[Heil tries to be a little dickens...]

wrote:
an old friend wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:

But, Heil MUST sound off like he is "superior" in radio so he
does postings, many postings, editing quotes to fit his
attack agenda du jour. That's okay, though, he is an amateur
extra morseman and they seem to be exempt in behavior;
us no-code-test advocates are NOT exempt, must play the
role of boys from some absurd version of "Oliver Twist."
[Heil tries to be a little dickens...]
you must be carefull about mentioning boys after all that will surely
get YOU tarred as a pedophile (you beiing the one of the few I have not
observed Robeson target with that brush or have I just missed it)

but heil is making a faint effort to control the agenda doesn't see
that if the Procder refuse to conservse we can do that Ourselves but
then none of them seem to be very good at thinking outside the box

well in 2 hours we have Kol Nedre (yom Kippur evening services) and the
judgements made by God on Rosh hashana will be sealed for the year)
hopefully this mean the FCC will issue the R&O on monday so those going
to die of heart faulure over can get on with it

From: "an old friend" on Sun, Oct 1 2006 1:25 pm


wrote:
an old friend wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:

But, Heil MUST sound off like he is "superior" in radio so he
does postings, many postings, editing quotes to fit his
attack agenda du jour. That's okay, though, he is an amateur
extra morseman and they seem to be exempt in behavior;
us no-code-test advocates are NOT exempt, must play the
role of boys from some absurd version of "Oliver Twist."
[Heil tries to be a little dickens...]

you must be carefull about mentioning boys after all that will surely
get YOU tarred as a pedophile (you beiing the one of the few I have not
observed Robeson target with that brush or have I just missed it)

"Boys?" I was one once...a long time ago. :-)

The USMC Imposter DID target me for a while, a long while
back when you were off this newsgripe. If he added
homosexuality to the long, long list of insults, it might
have been overlooked; there were so many insults from him.

As Cecil Moore used to say, "I must be a lesbian since I
have this attraction to women." :-)

That attraction, or rather "interest" has been in me
since my teens began. Doesn't mean I want to BE one.

but heil is making a faint effort to control the agenda doesn't see
that if the Procder refuse to conservse we can do that Ourselves but
then none of them seem to be very good at thinking outside the box

I don't see Heil making ANY effort to control himself in
here. His agenda is tightly focussed on snarling at
everything I write. :-) He snarls and sneers so much
that I just think of him as having the sense of humor
of plankton.


well in 2 hours we have Kol Nedre (yom Kippur evening services) and the
judgements made by God on Rosh hashana will be sealed for the year)
hopefully this mean the FCC will issue the R&O on monday so those going
to die of heart faulure over can get on with it

Well, anything that appears in the big Reading Room at the
FCC on Monday will have already been decided. The GPO will
be or already has set up the Federal Register pages on
Friday...if the R&O is ever published there.

The FCC doesn't regard amateur radio as a big matter and
(in the last few years) hasn't always put amateur rules
decisions IN the FR. Indeed, they don't bother much with
keeping the Amateur sub-page of the Wireless Bureau up to
date...certainly not on all the Petitions that were in
Comment the year before.

Heh heh, maybe the FCC is running the R&O over to the ARRL
for "approval" first? :-)

Shalom,

Barry OGrady wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:54:46 -0500, Nada Tapu wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:23:03 GMT, Slow Code wrote:


Or just lazy people out?

Sc

It certainly didn't keep me out, and I wasn't all that crazy about
learning it, either.

More to the point, are there more licensed amateurs since the code requirement
was removed years ago?

Yes. In the USA at least.

Since the inception of the no-code Technician class here in 1991,
the growth of the Technician class license numbers in the USA
has been continuous. Those now comprise about 49 % of ALL
licensees. The Technician class license numbers are twice that
of General class, the next-largest license class.

Since the "reconstruction" in FCC amateur radio regulations of
2001, the number of licensees grew to peak in July, 2003. At
that time the maximum code test rate was fixed at 5 WPM, all
classes.

A problem now is the attrition of the older licensees. More old-
timers are leaving/expiring (their licenses) than are being
replaced by new (never before licensed in amateur radio)
licensees. Source: www.hamdata.com. That trend has
persisted for three years.

The code test is not THE factor causing it, just one of the
major factors in slowing the increase of new licensees.
Coupled with the stubborn resistance to change of ANY
regulations by olde-tymers, there is little incentive to enter
olde-tyme amateur radio. Ally that with the huge growth of
the Internet in the 15 years it has been public - an Internet
that has spread worldwide with near-instant communications
over that world - and the traditional standards and practices
of olde-tyme ham radio just don't have the appeal to
newcomers they once had.

Elimination of the code test for any license will cause a
spurt in new licensees. While such elimination is not a
guarantee to far-future growth, it will be the significant act
to being CHANGING regulations to better fit the modern times.
Keeping up with changing times is a NECESSITY in
regulations, regardless of the personal desires of the minority
of amateurs making up the olde-tyme group.