From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

[snip]

I can't help but think that all engineers, aerospace or civil or
otherwise, had to learn Ohm's Law as part of "thier" professional
certification. If I am wrong, then shame on the state of American
Engineerism, and shame on America. No wonder we're overrun with
engineers from India, Pakistan, China and Russia.

Mechanical engineers don't have a need for Ohm's law. They go hire the
electrical engineers.

Really? That's NOT been my experience over the last half
century in the Los Angeles Aerospace Industry. I've NEVER
been hired by any mechanical engineers...the final interview
before a hiring okay has ALWAYS been done by EEs.

Aerospace engineering is a branch of mechanical
engineering (we don't get to drop the lesser terms in the equations since
they have a significant impact for our field).

Really? Rocketdyne (my last big corporate employer) makes
the SSME (Space Shuttle Main Engine). A rocket motor (simple)
might need a spark plug or other igniter to start it up (if
not using hypergolic fuel). However, each SSME has a STRAP-
ON COMPUTER, primarily to regulate the liquid oxygen flow.
Can't use a conventional flowmeter...the LOX just eats them
up (rapid oxidation from pure oxygen). Since the SSME is
throttleable there's a wide range of variables involved,
something that can only be solved in real time by a computer.
Computer was designed and built by Minneapolis-Honeywell and
is probably the MOST robust computer ever made. Perhaps you
want to argue that Rocketdyne is "not" involved in aerospace
engineering? [feel free, but you would be WRONG]

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division. Nice place.
I worked there when Ramo-Wooldridge occupied that facility.
Stouffers ran both the RW and HAC cafeteria, good good food.
Is the Phoenix air-air missle considered part of "aerospace?"
I'd say so, and thousands of other engineers would say so.
However, for a missle there is a STRONG interplay between
the tin benders and solder slingers to get an optimum
package with the most bang for its buck...and get it to the
target RELIABLY. HAC has had an excellent record in air-air
misslery, beginning with their first, the GAR-1 and GAR-2
(launched from F-102s, Shrub's NG plane). Air-air missles
NEED little computers on board along with air data sensors
and control acuators to do their task. A mechanical who
specializes in aerodynamics is certainly needed but those
would be out of a job without the electronics specialist
working side-by-side.

Would a satellite or space probe work without solar cells?
[only for a short time] Solar cells are ELECTRICAL things,
charging up the internal batteries (another electrical
thing) to keep the payload (electronics) working. Feel
free to go out to JPL and tell them "aerospace is all
mechanical engineering." :-)

I could expand on avionics...stuff that acquires and tracks
targets (military) or guides aircraft (military and civilian)
or does "fly-by-wire" (control surface acuation via electrical
coupling from manual controls). Absolutely needed in the
high-performance aircraft of today. But, you say that is
due to "aerospace being all mechanical engineering?" No.
Have you seen the "glass cockpit" of today's aircraft?
Gone are the mechanical and aerodynamic gauges, replaced
with flat-screen LCD and Plasma displays operated through
microprocessors from sensors with no moving parts.

Again we go hire the electrical engineers.

Nonsense.

Same with civil and structural engineers.

More nonsense. "Civil engineers?" Building rigid
airships? :-)

On the
other hand electrical engineers generally do not study basic pressure vessal
theory but go hire the mechanical engineers for that.

I might have had some past jobs that made me a 'vassal' but
at Rocketdyne I never had any responsibility for pressure
VESSLES. That was for the smoke-and-fire guys to do. :-)

By the way, the almost-catastrophy of the Apollo 13 mission
was a LOX tank blowing up in the Service Module. Specifially
it was failure of the LOX stirring thermostate within it, a
design responsibility of mechanicals with thermodynamics
specialty. :-) [one of three VESSLES holding LOX in the
Service Module]


Learning Oh,'s Law for a hobby is one thing, but a professional
engineer........

Again it depends on the field. We all studied common areas such as calculus
and fast fourier transforms but items unique to a field generally were not
taught across the board.

Tsk, tsk. Bad school. Sit in corner. :-)

We didn't study Ohms law and the electrical
engineers didn't study cantilever beam theory.

Really? "Beam theory" (cantilever and others) was a REQUISITE
in southern California colleges; most instructors prolly
couldn't hack the basic electrical stuff anyway. Ever look into
a Texas Instruments 'DLP' IC? CANTILEVER BEAM MOVEMENT of the
micromachined mirrors does every single lil' pixel in that IC.
TI has a virtual monopoly on the DLP for very large screen
DTV displays.

One need not use 'cantilever beam theory' to design a
horizontal ham antenna (such as a parasitic beam)...just
go out and BUY one, ready-made, some-assembly-required,
then watch it fall down in the next big windstorm. :-)

---

As far as actual KNOWLEDGE gained, a 'degree' has LITTLE
value except in the eyes of personnel departments and
department managers (the ones who think they can run people
but sure don't know how to run the equipment). I finally
got one...LONG AFTER the fact of having quite a bit of
design responsibility and a whole heaping gob of experience.
Personally, I feel mine is a negative worth due to lots of
LOST time attending 'requisite' classes...just so a few
instructors could write down I passed their courses and a
few others in a college (or university) could rubber-stamp
a 'sheepskin.'

The point is BEING ABLE TO DO THE JOB, not the number of
diplomas (suitable for framing) on display, or the number
of alphabetic characters one can put after a signature.

Does anyone NEED a radio license to effectively run,
repair, maintain, calibrate, test a radio transmitter? NO.
The license is a LEGAL requirement. The TEST for any radio
license, amateur or commercial, is ridiculously SIMPLE, and
has NEVER been made complex or comprehensive by the
FCC. It is an AUTHORIZATION by a government agency,
NOT a "qualification". It might as well be a fancy hunting
or fishing license.

However, the FCC regulations for radio amateurs is strict
on technical performance, a responsibility for EACH
licensee. Can you do any sort of comprehensive test to
insure compliance with the LAW? I can. I could long
before any degree was received.

wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division.

"Missile", Len.

Nice place.
I worked there when Ramo-Wooldridge occupied that facility.
Stouffers ran both the RW and HAC cafeteria, good good food.
Is the Phoenix air-air missle

"Missile", Len. Once is a typo.

considered part of "aerospace?"
I'd say so, and thousands of other engineers would say so.
However, for a missle there is a STRONG interplay between
the tin benders and solder slingers to get an optimum
package with the most bang for its buck...and get it to the
target RELIABLY. HAC has had an excellent record in air-air
misslery, beginning with their first, the GAR-1 and GAR-2
(launched from F-102s, Shrub's NG plane).
Air-air missles...

"Missile", Len. Once is a typo.

...NEED little computers on board along with air data sensors
and control acuators to do their task.

"Actuators", Len.


I might have had some past jobs that made me a 'vassal' but
at Rocketdyne I never had any responsibility for pressure
VESSLES. That was for the smoke-and-fire guys to do. :-)

"Vessels", Len.

By the way, the almost-catastrophy of the Apollo 13 mission
was a LOX tank blowing up in the Service Module. Specifially
it was failure of the LOX stirring thermostate...

"Thermostat", Len.


...within it, a
design responsibility of mechanicals with thermodynamics
specialty. :-) [one of three VESSLES holding LOX in the
Service Module]

"Vessels", Len. Once is a typo.



The point is BEING ABLE TO DO THE JOB, not the number of
diplomas (suitable for framing) on display, or the number
of alphabetic characters one can put after a signature.

Like "IEEE"?

Does anyone NEED a radio license to effectively run,
repair, maintain, calibrate, test a radio transmitter? NO.
The license is a LEGAL requirement. The TEST for any radio
license, amateur or commercial, is ridiculously SIMPLE, and
has NEVER been made complex or comprehensive by the
FCC. It is an AUTHORIZATION by a government agency,
NOT a "qualification". It might as well be a fancy hunting
or fishing license.

You haven't passed an exam for the most basic amateur radio hunting and
fishing license, old timer.

However, the FCC regulations for radio amateurs is strict
on technical performance, a responsibility for EACH
licensee. Can you do any sort of comprehensive test to
insure compliance with the LAW? I can. I could long
before any degree was received.

You don't have to worry about doing so. You aren't involved.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division.

"Missile", Len.
prove postive of 2 thing DX is running poorly tonight and Heil has
nothing worthwhile to say

an_old_friend wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division.

"Missile", Len.

prove postive of 2 thing DX is running poorly tonight and Heil has
nothing worthwhile to say

Heil hasn't said anything worthwhile in this newsgroup for years. But
he wants to run for ARRL office. Perhaps he's found his calling?

wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division.

"Missile", Len.

prove postive of 2 thing DX is running poorly tonight and Heil has
nothing worthwhile to say

Heil hasn't said anything worthwhile in this newsgroup for years. But
he wants to run for ARRL office. Perhaps he's found his calling?
indeed but normal even he finds more to say than repeatly correcting
one word