From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message


No I do not say that all those who learned the code are highly proficient.
I am saying that setting someone up with CWGet for a contest is a recipe for
failure and a very unenjoyable contest experience. When I first started cw
contesting, I had to listen to the station many times through picking out
their call letter by letter over a dozen exchanges before throwing in my
call. I also sent PSE QRS 5 on many occasions to get the balance of the
exchange. But it worked.

If they choose to view as merely a hurdle to pass and never try it, that's
sad but that's their problem.

Never been a problem to me.

I can't see any personal enjoyment in "contesting," using
kilodollars worth of equipment just to accumulate the most
radio contacts in a short period of time. But, if that's
your Thing, go for it.

I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

The FCC has nothing on "contesting," doesn't require it of
any licensee.

Then there are the majority of hams who have no-code licenses...

While they have numbers, way too many of them are inactive or have low
activity levels.

You don't hear them so they don't exist?!?

When I work VHF/UHF contests, I sometimes check the call
signs of the people worked. Most are Extras, some are Generals, and I've
only worked ONE Technician. And that's in a voice contest. Why is that?
They have full band privileges and full power privileges yet they don't use
them. Why? Same deal with the grid square hunters. And so on.

Tsk. VHF-UHF is LOS stuff regularly, sometimes "DX" when
there are atmospheric inversion layers for ducting or other
weird effects.

Did it ever occur to you that OTHER people on ham bands
are NOT really into 'contesting?" Maybe they LIKE to get
to know the other party on a radio circuit?



The ITU has a standard definition of what constitutes International Morse
Code that is sufficient for the purpose.

It's a date-update of an old CCITT *TELEGRAM* standard.

Would you like a copy? :-)

IT DOES NOT SPECIFY WORD *RATE*!


The FCC doesn't need to define it.
They say we must pass the International Morse Code.

The FCC *references* the CCITT-ITU document in
Definitions.

The FCC does NOT LEGALLY DEFINE word rate.

Sunnuvagun.

Now, if the FCC ever gets the 2004 "Omnibus" R&O published
in the Federal Register, we will see if they bothered to
update the old CCITT document to the current ITU document.

:-)



Most engineering jobs do not require that one even have a PE license or
registration or whatever they call it these days.

'Professional Engineer' is a STATE license thing. Requirements
vary between states, but not a great deal.

The state PE license is a nice LEGAL thing because the LEGAL
system is set up to recognize it.

Corporations and businesses who DO THE WORK are less interested
in the number of diplomas and licenses one has...they want
people who can DO THE WORK. If they can DO THE WORK, they are
paid accordingly. Getting PAID for services rendered IS a
legally-acceptible definition of 'professional' activity. Ergo,
an engineer who does engineering work, has engineering
responsibility, and CAN DO THE WORK is generally referred to as
a professional. Really.



So you do use ohm's law and theory, you just don't think it belongs in
amateur licensing?

No I did not say that. I believe that they do belong in the licensing setup
as again for amateur radio, they are basics of the field. Just because my
usage of them is low doesn't mean they don't belong there.

But, but, but...an amateur MUST learn morse code?!? :-)

Lots of amateurs tossed their code keys, had "key burial"
ceremonies after getting their license, and continued to
have fun as licensed amateurs.

There's lots and lots of hypocrisy running around loose in
there... :-(


One needs to
learn the basics as they don't yet know what direction their hobby will take
them. Learning the basics helps them decide which and when or if they want
to further explore various branches of amateur radio.

In crowded, congested ham bands it would seem mo' bettah
to LEARN how to maintain, repair, calibrate their radios.
The FCC has lots technical requirements on radios which
licensees are REQUIRED to obey.

Not to worry. The ready-built designer-manufacturers of
today's ham radios have done all the ADVANCED work for you.
No need to sweat actually LEARNING some beyond-basic
knowledge. Just plug it in and go. You can read the
operating manual as you go along.

You keep stressing the NEED to do radiotelegraphy. I don't
see it. The rest of the world isn't stressing any of that
"CW" need...they just gave up on morse code.


Similarly, there were several courses I took as part of the basics of
engineering but seldom used. I've never done fast fourier transforms in my
work as my career did not go that direction. I've rarely used calculus. On
the other hand, I spent a significant chunk of my career (12 years out of 33
years) writing engineering software using Fortran and later Visual Basic.

Sunnuvagun! In 1973 I managed to access the RCA corporate
mainframe to do my first FORTRAN coding. I got the basics
from Dan McCracken's large softcover on Programming in
FORTRAN IV. 33 years ago! Took me only about three months
(of my own time) to get acquainted with FORTRAN...was much
more difficult 'selling' the group bean counter to get
access. By 1975 I had 6 programs in the RCA Central
Software Library that I'd written and debugged. Wasn't all
that hard.

Oh, and Dartmouth BASIC was already in industry use 33
years ago. Visual Basic hasn't been out near that long.
Power Basic for Windows 8 is the present package I have,
sufficiently like FORTRAN to make an easy transition.

Computer programming is NOT for everyone. Some haven't got
the aptitude for it. Programming does NOT teach one how to
MAKE a computer, just how to USE it in ONE kind of
application. [like morse proficiency is "supposed to make
one a good radio operator" but doesn't teach squat in how
a radio works or how to fix one]

What is much better for radio amateurs *OR* just radio
and electronics hobbyists in regards to basic theory
knowledge is using a SPICE program set. Linear
Technology Corp. has made a modern SPICE program set
absolutely FREE, just download it at www.linear.com.
"LTSpice/SwitcherCAD." Use the Search box at the home
page. The single download is an automatically-
unpacking .EXE file, just run it and it installs by
itself. It's got a fairly simple Schematic drawing
feature that automatically generates Netlists. A fair
selection of common active device models is supplied
in its Library. Only for Windows OS up to XP as far
as I know.

SPICE program packages *ALL* take some time on the
learning curve. The lovely part of them is that they
do NOT require parts, NO workbench, NO test equipment.
At first they are frustrating in a large amount of
program commands and conventions that must be observed.
Once over that hump, they can be marvelous instruction
machines in allowing quick changes of a circuit to see
the effect on Transient (time-domain) or Linear AC
(frequency-domain) response. They can handle simple,
medium, or large scale circuits...anything from just
an R-C network to fancy oscillators to complex filters,
passive or active.

In working on a "SPICE bench" there is a subtle input
to the mind. The pathways there are opened to first
understand the interrelationships of components in a
circuit...and what those components are made of,
electrically. Once those pathways are opened, it
becomes easier to understand the more complex theory
behind the circuitry. All that can be done without
lots of expensive (or cheap) parts, no danger of
"burning out" something, no smoke and fire. :-)

"All electronics works by smoke. If the smoke leaks
out, it won't work." - anon.

" wrote in
oups.com:

From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message


No I do not say that all those who learned the code are highly
proficient. I am saying that setting someone up with CWGet for a contest
is a recipe for failure and a very unenjoyable contest experience. When
I first started cw contesting, I had to listen to the station many times
through picking out their call letter by letter over a dozen exchanges
before throwing in my call. I also sent PSE QRS 5 on many occasions to
get the balance of the exchange. But it worked.

If they choose to view as merely a hurdle to pass and never try it,
that's sad but that's their problem.

Never been a problem to me.

I can't see any personal enjoyment in "contesting," using
kilodollars worth of equipment just to accumulate the most
radio contacts in a short period of time. But, if that's
your Thing, go for it.

I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

The FCC has nothing on "contesting," doesn't require it of
any licensee.

Then there are the majority of hams who have no-code licenses...

While they have numbers, way too many of them are inactive or have low
activity levels.

You don't hear them so they don't exist?!?

When I work VHF/UHF contests, I sometimes check the call
signs of the people worked. Most are Extras, some are Generals, and
I've only worked ONE Technician. And that's in a voice contest. Why is
that? They have full band privileges and full power privileges yet they
don't use them. Why? Same deal with the grid square hunters. And so
on.

Tsk. VHF-UHF is LOS stuff regularly, sometimes "DX" when
there are atmospheric inversion layers for ducting or other
weird effects.

Did it ever occur to you that OTHER people on ham bands
are NOT really into 'contesting?" Maybe they LIKE to get
to know the other party on a radio circuit?



The ITU has a standard definition of what constitutes International
Morse Code that is sufficient for the purpose.

It's a date-update of an old CCITT *TELEGRAM* standard.

Would you like a copy? :-)

IT DOES NOT SPECIFY WORD *RATE*!


The FCC doesn't need to define it.
They say we must pass the International Morse Code.

The FCC *references* the CCITT-ITU document in
Definitions.

The FCC does NOT LEGALLY DEFINE word rate.

Sunnuvagun.

Now, if the FCC ever gets the 2004 "Omnibus" R&O published
in the Federal Register, we will see if they bothered to
update the old CCITT document to the current ITU document.

:-)



Most engineering jobs do not require that one even have a PE license or
registration or whatever they call it these days.

'Professional Engineer' is a STATE license thing. Requirements
vary between states, but not a great deal.

The state PE license is a nice LEGAL thing because the LEGAL
system is set up to recognize it.

Corporations and businesses who DO THE WORK are less interested
in the number of diplomas and licenses one has...they want
people who can DO THE WORK. If they can DO THE WORK, they are
paid accordingly. Getting PAID for services rendered IS a
legally-acceptible definition of 'professional' activity. Ergo,
an engineer who does engineering work, has engineering
responsibility, and CAN DO THE WORK is generally referred to as
a professional. Really.



So you do use ohm's law and theory, you just don't think it belongs in
amateur licensing?

No I did not say that. I believe that they do belong in the licensing
setup as again for amateur radio, they are basics of the field. Just
because my usage of them is low doesn't mean they don't belong there.

But, but, but...an amateur MUST learn morse code?!? :-)

Lots of amateurs tossed their code keys, had "key burial"
ceremonies after getting their license, and continued to
have fun as licensed amateurs.

There's lots and lots of hypocrisy running around loose in
there... :-(


One needs to
learn the basics as they don't yet know what direction their hobby will
take them. Learning the basics helps them decide which and when or if
they want to further explore various branches of amateur radio.

In crowded, congested ham bands it would seem mo' bettah
to LEARN how to maintain, repair, calibrate their radios.
The FCC has lots technical requirements on radios which
licensees are REQUIRED to obey.

Not to worry. The ready-built designer-manufacturers of
today's ham radios have done all the ADVANCED work for you.
No need to sweat actually LEARNING some beyond-basic
knowledge. Just plug it in and go. You can read the
operating manual as you go along.

You keep stressing the NEED to do radiotelegraphy. I don't
see it. The rest of the world isn't stressing any of that
"CW" need...they just gave up on morse code.


Similarly, there were several courses I took as part of the basics of
engineering but seldom used. I've never done fast fourier transforms in
my work as my career did not go that direction. I've rarely used
calculus. On the other hand, I spent a significant chunk of my career
(12 years out of 33 years) writing engineering software using Fortran
and later Visual Basic.

Sunnuvagun! In 1973 I managed to access the RCA corporate
mainframe to do my first FORTRAN coding. I got the basics
from Dan McCracken's large softcover on Programming in
FORTRAN IV. 33 years ago! Took me only about three months
(of my own time) to get acquainted with FORTRAN...was much
more difficult 'selling' the group bean counter to get
access. By 1975 I had 6 programs in the RCA Central
Software Library that I'd written and debugged. Wasn't all
that hard.

Oh, and Dartmouth BASIC was already in industry use 33
years ago. Visual Basic hasn't been out near that long.
Power Basic for Windows 8 is the present package I have,
sufficiently like FORTRAN to make an easy transition.

Computer programming is NOT for everyone. Some haven't got
the aptitude for it. Programming does NOT teach one how to
MAKE a computer, just how to USE it in ONE kind of
application. [like morse proficiency is "supposed to make
one a good radio operator" but doesn't teach squat in how
a radio works or how to fix one]

What is much better for radio amateurs *OR* just radio
and electronics hobbyists in regards to basic theory
knowledge is using a SPICE program set. Linear
Technology Corp. has made a modern SPICE program set
absolutely FREE, just download it at www.linear.com.
"LTSpice/SwitcherCAD." Use the Search box at the home
page. The single download is an automatically-
unpacking .EXE file, just run it and it installs by
itself. It's got a fairly simple Schematic drawing
feature that automatically generates Netlists. A fair
selection of common active device models is supplied
in its Library. Only for Windows OS up to XP as far
as I know.

SPICE program packages *ALL* take some time on the
learning curve. The lovely part of them is that they
do NOT require parts, NO workbench, NO test equipment.
At first they are frustrating in a large amount of
program commands and conventions that must be observed.
Once over that hump, they can be marvelous instruction
machines in allowing quick changes of a circuit to see
the effect on Transient (time-domain) or Linear AC
(frequency-domain) response. They can handle simple,
medium, or large scale circuits...anything from just
an R-C network to fancy oscillators to complex filters,
passive or active.

In working on a "SPICE bench" there is a subtle input
to the mind. The pathways there are opened to first
understand the interrelationships of components in a
circuit...and what those components are made of,
electrically. Once those pathways are opened, it
becomes easier to understand the more complex theory
behind the circuitry. All that can be done without
lots of expensive (or cheap) parts, no danger of
"burning out" something, no smoke and fire. :-)

"All electronics works by smoke. If the smoke leaks
out, it won't work." - anon.




There's a product at the drug store you might want to try: Gas-X. It
should be pretty close to the 'Depends' isle you're familiar with.

SC

wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message


No I do not say that all those who learned the code are highly proficient.
I am saying that setting someone up with CWGet for a contest is a recipe for
failure and a very unenjoyable contest experience. When I first started cw
contesting, I had to listen to the station many times through picking out
their call letter by letter over a dozen exchanges before throwing in my
call. I also sent PSE QRS 5 on many occasions to get the balance of the
exchange. But it worked.

If they choose to view as merely a hurdle to pass and never try it, that's
sad but that's their problem.

Never been a problem to me.

Heck no, Leonard. You'd have to first obtain an amateur radio license
in order to worry about amateur radio contesting.

I can't see any personal enjoyment in "contesting," using
kilodollars worth of equipment just to accumulate the most
radio contacts in a short period of time. But, if that's
your Thing, go for it.

Some folks use hundreds of dollars worth of equipment. Some participate
only to work states or countries or grid squares they've never
contacted. Some like to give points to those operating seriously in a
contesting event. Some just like to see if they can't beat the score of
a local friend or to see if they can do better than they did the last year.

I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't
worry too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license
before you could participate.

The FCC has nothing on "contesting," doesn't require it of
any licensee.

Neither do the regs forbid it. Go figure!

Then there are the majority of hams who have no-code licenses...
While they have numbers, way too many of them are inactive or have low
activity levels.

You don't hear them so they don't exist?!?

When I work VHF/UHF contests, I sometimes check the call
signs of the people worked. Most are Extras, some are Generals, and I've
only worked ONE Technician. And that's in a voice contest. Why is that?
They have full band privileges and full power privileges yet they don't use
them. Why? Same deal with the grid square hunters. And so on.

Tsk. VHF-UHF is LOS stuff regularly, sometimes "DX" when
there are atmospheric inversion layers for ducting or other
weird effects.

Weird effects? Most of the propagation modes are fairly predictable,
Len. Line of sight varies with altitude above average terrain, with
height of antennas above ground, with gain of antennas used, with power
used and with feedline and preamps used. Enhanced propagation modes
exist commonly. I can regularly contact 6m stations within a several
hundred mile radius. At 2m and 70cm, I can work stations two hundred or
so miles away. With enhanced propagation modes at 2m or 70cm, I've
worked Iowa and Nebraska. I've contacted 67 countries on 6m in the past
six years. They range from the Marshall Islands to Madagascar.

Did it ever occur to you that OTHER people on ham bands
are NOT really into 'contesting?" Maybe they LIKE to get
to know the other party on a radio circuit?

Being a contester does not preclude ragchewing or DXing or traffic handling.


Now, if the FCC ever gets the 2004 "Omnibus" R&O published
in the Federal Register, we will see if they bothered to
update the old CCITT document to the current ITU document.

:-)

Yeah. "We" will see. Those of us with amateur radio licenses will
operate under the reg changes. You may read them.



In crowded, congested ham bands it would seem mo' bettah
to LEARN how to maintain, repair, calibrate their radios.
The FCC has lots technical requirements on radios which
licensees are REQUIRED to obey.

Fix up your well equipped home workshop, Len. Get it all set up for
maintenance, repair and calibration. That way, you can go right to it
when and if you ever obtain an amateur radio license.

Not to worry. The ready-built designer-manufacturers of
today's ham radios have done all the ADVANCED work for you.
No need to sweat actually LEARNING some beyond-basic
knowledge. Just plug it in and go. You can read the
operating manual as you go along.

Why are *you* worried about it?

You keep stressing the NEED to do radiotelegraphy. I don't
see it.

That has long been evident.

The rest of the world isn't stressing any of that
"CW" need...they just gave up on morse code.

That's incorrect, Leonard. The rest of the world didn't give up the use
or the testing. Some countries gave up testing. In the meantime, if
you'd like to become a radio amateur with HF access here in the U.S. of
A., you'll need to brush up on morse.


Computer programming is NOT for everyone. Some haven't got
the aptitude for it.

Neither is amateur radio, Len, for the same reason.

Dave K8MN

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

[snip]
I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't worry
too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license before
you could participate.


That's for sure Dave. I have worked WP2Z a total of 25 times in 5 years and
I am only a casual contester.

Dee, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

[snip]
I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)
In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't worry
too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license before
you could participate.


That's for sure Dave. I have worked WP2Z a total of 25 times in 5 years and
I am only a casual contester.

Dee, N8UZE

After a while, Dee, you hit Dayton and other hamfests and you meet some
of these contest ops. I've been working Mike Wetzel W9RE for thirty
years or so in contests. I've known Tim K3LR since he was a teenager.
He and WA3FET designed the Bencher Skyhawk tribander in recent years.

Back in 1990 when I was 9L1US in Sierra Leone, I worked Don Karvonen
K8MFO on ten bands within a 24 hour period (and not in a contest). Don
and I were on Market Reef in 1986.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message


No I do not say that all those who learned the code are highly proficient.
I am saying that setting someone up with CWGet for a contest is a recipe for
failure and a very unenjoyable contest experience. When I first started cw
contesting, I had to listen to the station many times through picking out
their call letter by letter over a dozen exchanges before throwing in my
call. I also sent PSE QRS 5 on many occasions to get the balance of the
exchange. But it worked.

If they choose to view as merely a hurdle to pass and never try it, that's
sad but that's their problem.

Never been a problem to me.

Heck no, Leonard. You'd have to first obtain an amateur radio license
in order to worry about amateur radio contesting.
nope

I can't see any personal enjoyment in "contesting," using
kilodollars worth of equipment just to accumulate the most
radio contacts in a short period of time. But, if that's
your Thing, go for it.

Some folks use hundreds of dollars worth of equipment. Some participate
only to work states or countries or grid squares they've never
contacted. Some like to give points to those operating seriously in a
contesting event. Some just like to see if they can't beat the score of
a local friend or to see if they can do better than they did the last year.

I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't
worry too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license
before you could participate.

nope

The FCC has nothing on "contesting," doesn't require it of
any licensee.

Neither do the regs forbid it. Go figure!

but since it is not a requirement it needs are a not a proper basis for
making rules

Then there are the majority of hams who have no-code licenses...
While they have numbers, way too many of them are inactive or have low
activity levels.

You don't hear them so they don't exist?!?

When I work VHF/UHF contests, I sometimes check the call
signs of the people worked. Most are Extras, some are Generals, and I've
only worked ONE Technician. And that's in a voice contest. Why is that?
They have full band privileges and full power privileges yet they don't use
them. Why? Same deal with the grid square hunters. And so on.

Tsk. VHF-UHF is LOS stuff regularly, sometimes "DX" when
there are atmospheric inversion layers for ducting or other
weird effects.

Weird effects? Most of the propagation modes are fairly predictable,
Len. Line of sight varies with altitude above average terrain, with
height of antennas above ground, with gain of antennas used, with power
used and with feedline and preamps used. Enhanced propagation modes
exist commonly. I can regularly contact 6m stations within a several
hundred mile radius. At 2m and 70cm, I can work stations two hundred or
so miles away. With enhanced propagation modes at 2m or 70cm, I've
worked Iowa and Nebraska. I've contacted 67 countries on 6m in the past
six years. They range from the Marshall Islands to Madagascar.

Did it ever occur to you that OTHER people on ham bands
are NOT really into 'contesting?" Maybe they LIKE to get
to know the other party on a radio circuit?

Being a contester does not preclude ragchewing or DXing or traffic handling.

if you were reading youd understand that the point made is that the
needs of CW Contester do (and should not) drive ARS licensing

or maybe you would not be able to understand that point


Now, if the FCC ever gets the 2004 "Omnibus" R&O published
in the Federal Register, we will see if they bothered to
update the old CCITT document to the current ITU document.

:-)

Yeah. "We" will see. Those of us with amateur radio licenses will
operate under the reg changes. You may read them.

mighty white of of you



In crowded, congested ham bands it would seem mo' bettah
to LEARN how to maintain, repair, calibrate their radios.
The FCC has lots technical requirements on radios which
licensees are REQUIRED to obey.

Fix up your well equipped home workshop, Len. Get it all set up for
maintenance, repair and calibration. That way, you can go right to it
when and if you ever obtain an amateur radio license.

Not to worry. The ready-built designer-manufacturers of
today's ham radios have done all the ADVANCED work for you.
No need to sweat actually LEARNING some beyond-basic
knowledge. Just plug it in and go. You can read the
operating manual as you go along.

Why are *you* worried about it?

he isn't you seem to be

You keep stressing the NEED to do radiotelegraphy. I don't
see it.

That has long been evident.

as has the fact the FCC and ITU don't see it either

The rest of the world isn't stressing any of that
"CW" need...they just gave up on morse code.

That's incorrect, Leonard. The rest of the world didn't give up the use
or the testing. Some countries gave up testing. In the meantime, if
you'd like to become a radio amateur with HF access here in the U.S. of
A., you'll need to brush up on morse.

for while longer yet


Computer programming is NOT for everyone. Some haven't got
the aptitude for it.

Neither is amateur radio, Len, for the same reason.

but that reason has NOTHING to with Morse

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:

I've contacted 67 countries on 6m in the past
six years. They range from the Marshall Islands to Madagascar.

Dave K8MN

And a whole slew of out-of-banders from France.