In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

snip

Total Tech/TechPlus - 320,925 (decrease of 13,329)

Total all classes - 675,693 (increase of 901)

Good to see that the total numbers increased *despite* the "Great Falloff"

We have only 901 more hams today than we had when the whole restructuring
business came into being more than 4 years ago. (Some "professionals" can't
seem to even get a Technician license out of the box, despite the reduction
in written testing as well as code).

Total growth of 901 in that much time isn't healthy. Reducing the code test
to
just 5 wpm did not result in sustained growth, and neither did reducing the
written tests.

I just gotta say it.....well DUH!

Some people have difficulty accepting the obvious.

Things are not made popular by making them easy. Things are not made
popular by giving them away.

Some things are. Ham radio licenses aren't one of those things.

A reasonably intelligent person can learn
the tests, the old "hard tests" tests or new "easy tests".

All license classes have been earned by kids not yet in middle school. Of
course they were bright kids in supportive ham families but they still had to
pass the tests on their own. Claims of "fraud" by a nonamateur nonwithstanding.

It doesn't matter. If a person has to spend a few more weeks learning
something, so be it.

It won't chase them away.

It doesn't matter if there is a Morse code test or not. Not one little
bit.

Too many people seem to have thought that elimination of the Morse code

test would bring an influx of new eager hams. It will not.

Not a sustained one, anyway.

If you think that elimination of the Morse test will help, You are
wrong. If you think that retention of the Morse test will help, you are
wrong.

Karl, for all his bluster, has no more clue about what will attract new

people to the field than most PCTA's. He and the other CW haters simply
hate CW, and rationalize their hatred into "Ham radio will die unless we
get rid of the test.

"Karl"? WHo is he?

Some time back I posted the experiences of a middle-school teacher and Scout
leader here in EPA. He described first-hand how young people react to Morse
Code and ham radio. Unlike what we've been told by some, he says young people
are not driven away by Morse code or the tests. His experiences are not
unusual.

It seems to me that the people who have the most trouble with code tests are
much older....

Anything that needs rationalized is probably wrong to begin with. And
they are wrong to begin with.

You probably agree so far. You won't soon.

The difficulty or lack of "difficult tests" or the Morse code test
likewise has *no* effect whatsoever on the quality of the Ham community.

It's not about difficulty. It's about knowledge.

Ahh, what *does* grow Ham radio?

Hams grow Ham radio.

And an awful lot aren't doing it.

Bitching, whining, and moaning about the good old days and how much
better hams were then is only going to chase new people away. If I were
the sensitive sort, I would have quit Ham radio ten times over. I've had
to listen to Olde Tymers complaining about how only jerks and CB'ers are
joining the ranks, and how anyone can become an Extra nowadays. I've
listened to them claiming that all new Hams are stupid, and other
insults thrown at the new guys. At one time, I would gently remind them
that "I resemble that remark", but that gets old after the umpteenth time.

I agree! But this is not a new phenomenon.

Answer me this, is that an inviting atmosphere? How many people enter
hobbies to be ridiculed?

BINGO

Hams *must* provide a welcoming atmosphere, not inject their own
personal preferences into the mix, and take these new people and show
them they are valued on the air. Then word of mouth will spread among
the technologically inclined, and we won't have to be discussing how to
grow Ham radio.

But that door swings both ways. How many insults from newbies must an OT endure
before giving the same back?

I recall a discussion some time back where a newcomer wanted to know of a
simple, all-band, compact high performance HF antenna. Knowedgeable folk tried
to explain that you can't have all of those things at once. Newcomer said that
the OTs were simply not imaginative enough. OTs said it's basic physics.
Newsomer said OTs were lazy and stupid, and if they *really* knew anyhting
about radio they'd have solved the problem long ago. Just kept going downhill
from there.

How much of that should an OT take?

The Morse code test could disappear tomorrow, and as long as Hams
encouraged a welcoming atmosphere that encouraged quality, we would get
quality. The test could be retained, and as long as newcomers could have
a reasonable expectation that they would have a good experience, then
the hobby would grow.

We must heal ourselves!

Well said, but I think it's even more basic. Dee said it best: People aren't
attracted to what they don't know about. Or something similar. Most people
today don't even know amateur radio exists. Or they confuse it with cb.

That can be fixed.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(WA8ULX) writes:

That may be a good thing....


I say let the FREE Loading Knuckle Draggin CBplussers

Who are they? You mean folks like WK3C, who took the same Extra test you did?
Or folks like me, who took tests you couldn't or wouldn't even try?

fight the Battle, I sure
as HELL Im not going to fight for them.

But you'll let them fight for you. And you'll take the benefits...

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 8/20/2004 6:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Well, Mike...It's probably because we disagree with each other without
calling each other Nazi's, jackbooted thugs, elitists, invent diminuitives
for each other, and generally treat each other with a modicum of respct
when we take each other on some point.

Let's see - we disagree on many political points, like the practicality of
manned space exploration. In the area of amateur radio policy, Steve thinks
license fees,
and a "student" license are good ideas, while I think they're not. Steve
thinks
it's
practical to have 'secret' tests again, while I say it's a waste of time to
pester FCC with such an idea, and that "Son of Bash" would make the point
moot
anyway.

Ahhhhhhh!

A disagreement on the disagreement, Jim!

I didn't say it was "practical" to close the pools...What I HAVE been
saying is that we can regain the validity of what the tests are SUPPOSED to do
by closing the pools...And that is to reasonably assay the intended licensee's
knowledge of things electronic and practical as they pertain to Amateur Radio
operations.

I am sure there is nothing at all "practical" about it. As a matter of
fact, if practicality is what we want to discuss, let's just scrap the tests
all together, require the applicant send in two box tops from his or her
favorite breakfast cereal along with some reasonable fee and just mail them a
license!

We'll save millions in test administration fees, completely sack an entire
branch of ARRL headquarters, and induce a economic recovery by getting folks to
drive to the supermarket and buy the cereal!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/20/2004 3:05 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Mike Coslo wrote in message
...

And a good guess it is. Kind of flies in the face of those that say one

cannot engage in disagreement with you.

Of course, Steve went on his rampages while I was still being polite to him.

Uh huh. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

My mistake.

Yes, it was. But not for the reason you think.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 8/20/2004 6:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Well, Mike...It's probably because we disagree with each other without
calling each other Nazi's, jackbooted thugs, elitists, invent diminuitives
for each other, and generally treat each other with a modicum of respct
when we take each other on some point.

Let's see - we disagree on many political points, like the practicality of
manned space exploration. In the area of amateur radio policy, Steve thinks
license fees,
and a "student" license are good ideas, while I think they're not. Steve
thinks
it's
practical to have 'secret' tests again, while I say it's a waste of time to
pester FCC with such an idea, and that "Son of Bash" would make the point
moot
anyway.

Ahhhhhhh!

A disagreement on the disagreement, Jim!

I disagree.

I didn't say it was "practical" to close the pools...What I HAVE been
saying is that we can regain the validity of what the tests are SUPPOSED to
do
by closing the pools...And that is to reasonably assay the intended
licensee's
knowledge of things electronic and practical as they pertain to Amateur Radio
operations.

You keep writing about making the tests secret again, as if it could actually
be done. I'd love to see it happen.

But if you say it isn't practical, you're actually agreeing with me.

I am sure there is nothing at all "practical" about it.

Agreed!

As a matter of
fact, if practicality is what we want to discuss, let's just scrap the tests
all together, require the applicant send in two box tops from his or her
favorite breakfast cereal along with some reasonable fee and just mail them a
license!

I disagree. The tests and methods we have are better than no tests. The present
tests aren't perfect - and neither were the old ones!

We'll save millions in test administration fees, completely sack an
entire
branch of ARRL headquarters, and induce a economic recovery by getting folks
to drive to the supermarket and buy the cereal!

Cereals are usually high in carbos. Not a good thing!

I'm off to run a few miles..

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: ARS License Numbers
From: (William)
Date: 8/21/2004 6:23 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Quitefine) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

And for what it's worth, have you noticed that we used to have an ANON
poster on here going by the "handle" of Quitefine?

Why do you write of
us in the past tense?

I wrote of you in the past tense, not us. Welcome back, Jim.

Steve has an
unnatural attraction for every ANON poster on here EXCEPT for
Quitefine.

It seems that 'Steve' is
not the only one :-) :-)

You and Lenover21 have both
tried to be anonymous here.

I merely wished to reduce spam at my original e-mail account, and
it has worked.

Suuuuuuuuuuure you did, Brain.. Sure.

You can and will read nefarious intent into any of my actions.

So far your actions say "liar", "poor self esteem" and "no self respect"

Regardless, my posting style has not changed and anyone who
asks will be told who I am.

Yes, your "posting style" HAS changed. You became far more vile,
antagonizing and mistruthful. This was all after your public announcement of
admiration for another vile, antagonizing and mistruthful RRAP poster.

As for telling anyone who you are, if it really meant anything to you, it
would automatic for you to sign your posts.

You don't. So much for self respect.

Steve, K4YZ

But you'll let them fight for you. And you'll take the benefits...



Your Damn right, they are reaping the Benefits of all REAL HAMS before them.

In article ,
(WA8ULX) writes:

But you'll let them fight for you. And you'll take the benefits...

Your

[expletive deleted]


right, they are reaping the Benefits of all REAL HAMS before them.

"REAL HAMS", huh? Who does that include? And who does it exclude?

N2EY

Who does that include?

All the FREE Loading No-CODE KNUCKLE DRAGGIN CBplussers