ARS License Numbers
 

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Tech - 205,394
Tech Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750
Total - 674,792


As of June 30, 2003:

Novice - 33,796 (decrease of 15,533)
Technician - 256,588 (increase of 51,194)
Technician Plus - 67,416 (decrease of 61,444)
General - 141,181 (increase of 28,504)
Advanced - 83,239 (decrease of 16,543)
Extra - 104,271 (increase of 25,521)
Total - 686,491 (increase of 11,699)

73 de Jim, N2EY

As of July 15, 2003:
Technician - 257,319 (increase of 51,925)

It would have been 51,922 if I hadn't dragged 2 others with me...

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Tech - 205,394
Tech Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750
Total - 674,792


As of July 15, 2003:

Novice - 33,662 (decrease of 15,667)
decrease due to upgrades,plus attrition

Technician - 257,319 (increase of 51,925)
new licensees, plus tech+ renewed as tech

Technician Plus - 67,055 (decrease of 61,805)
decrease due to upgrades, plus tech+ renewed as tech, plus (perhaps slight
attrition)

General - 141,181 (increase of 28,605)
upgrades, plus new licensees who made it on the first pass

Advanced - 83,239 (decrease of 16,590)
upgrades, plus slight attrition

Extra - 104,301 (increase of 25,551)
upgrades, plus new licensees who made it on the first pass

Total - 686,861 (increase of 12,069)

About 4k total growth per year ...

Still slower growth than desirable by a long shot ... eliminating Morse
testing will help, but more needs to be done to promote ham radio
to those 40-50 years old if we want long-term survival ... I'll be
53 in October and I'm in the youngest quartile as far as I can estimate.

Carl - wk3c

From: "Carl R. Stevenson"

Still slower growth than desirable by a long shot ...

I'd like to get some of my friends licensed and use it for utility purposes.
Other than that, what does it matter about ARS license numbers?

eliminating Morse testing will help

No, it won't. The entry-level license is already code free. Eliminating Morse
testing will not cause more people to want to join.

Some do join just for HF, but that won't affect ARS license numbers.

but more needs to be done to promote ham radio
to those 40-50 years old if we want long-term survival .

I hate to say this, but vanity helps. Better to appeal to selfish motives than
selfless motives. The emergency communicator, the public service aspect - What
young person wants that?

Morse code and contesting don't appeal to vanity.

Morse code may be fun, but it takes more than that. If that fun makes you the
object of ridicule, then its not worth it. That makes it a "guilty pleasure"
-something you keep to yourself.

When they call contesting competition, it offends the normal sensibilities.
Making short QSOs (oops, I used a codeword) and counting contacts. Contesting
is competitive in a way, but its just one way. To exclude several kinds of
competition for contesting just isn't right. It means that competition isn't
the real motive. That's just a rationalization.

Real competition is expanding one's limitations. It includes radio direction
finding, APRS, mobile operation, tuning, troubleshooting, real emergency
preparedness.

And don't forget the social aspect.

Contesting is really boring too. It's human nature not to like boring
activities.

Some Hams will take a day off for a Hamfest that is on Friday and Saturday.
That takes one day away that could be used for a real vacation day. Just go
Saturday - you won't miss anything. Also, lets not schedule Hamfests and other
Ham Radio events during people's free social time, as Hams often do.

If you make the social aspect intolerable, some young people will not join for
that.

Scott Unit 69 wrote in message ...
As of July 15, 2003:
Technician - 257,319 (increase of 51,925)

It would have been 51,922 if I hadn't dragged 2 others with me...

Way to go, Scott.

bb

Scott, I *love* it. You even used unit 69! BTW, congratulations. Now the
CBers will hate you. You've gotta go middle of the road like me (until we
get squished, like a grape!)

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"Scott Unit 69" wrote in message
...
As of July 15, 2003:
Technician - 257,319 (increase of 51,925)

It would have been 51,922 if I hadn't dragged 2 others with me...


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Vshah101" wrote in message
...

Some Hams will take a day off for a Hamfest that is on Friday and
Saturday.
That takes one day away that could be used for a real vacation day. Just
go
Saturday - you won't miss anything. Also, lets not schedule Hamfests and
other
Ham Radio events during people's free social time, as Hams often do.



That's the only time available to schedule. You can't schedule during work
time or not enough people will be able to come.

When it comes to ham radio, Vipul has virtually everything bassackwards. I sure
home he isn't so consigned in everything he does, or he's in for serious difficulty
in life.

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

eliminating Morse
testing will help,

Depends on an accurate definition of "help". I seriously doubt any help will accrue
from allowing all the freebanding illiterati to migrate down to HF.

Dick Carroll wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:


"Vshah101" wrote in message
...

Some Hams will take a day off for a Hamfest that is on Friday and

Saturday.

That takes one day away that could be used for a real vacation day. Just

go

Saturday - you won't miss anything. Also, lets not schedule Hamfests and

other

Ham Radio events during people's free social time, as Hams often do.



That's the only time available to schedule. You can't schedule during work
time or not enough people will be able to come.


When it comes to ham radio, Vipul has virtually everything bassackwards. I sure
home he isn't so consigned in everything he does, or he's in for serious difficulty
in life.


He be a troll. I can't imagine anyone really thinks like that.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
From: "Carl R. Stevenson"

Still slower growth than desirable by a long shot ...

I'd like to get some of my friends licensed and use it for utility
purposes.
Other than that, what does it matter about ARS license numbers?

Numbers = use of our spectrum = justification for keeping what we have
(and maybe getting a bit more in the future)

Numbers = political influence (also necessary to protect our spectrum)

Numbers (of younger hams) = hams that will survive longer into the
future ... with today's demographic, the sad reality is that a large
percentage of current hams will be SK in the next 10-20 years, resulting
in a major drop in our numbers unless we make ham radio more attractive
and interesting to the younger generation. To do that, we can't force the
PC/internet generation to cling to/embrace some "traditions" (such as Morse)
in which the "older generation" iks so deeply invested (in an emotional
sense).


eliminating Morse testing will help

No, it won't. The entry-level license is already code free. Eliminating
Morse
testing will not cause more people to want to join.

Many folks are interested in HF access as part of their "portfolio" of
capabilities ... the entry level license currently precludes them from
HF use ... that is a major disincentive to many.

Carl - wk3c

If the trolling CBers weren't sniffing around trying to find out about me,
I would be more then happy to post a call. Until the stalkers find a life,
you guys will just have to deal with my old moniker.


Scott, I *love* it. You even used unit 69! BTW, congratulations. Now the
CBers will hate you. You've gotta go middle of the road like me (until we
get squished, like a grape!)


I need to find out if my TS-250 with SRF3800's (27 to 50 MHz) will
work on 6 meters (at a lower power output). It is very clean on SSB,
and was also tested by a ham on 10 meters. Anyone got an RCI5054 to sell?


Technician - 257,319 (increase of 51,925)

It would have been 51,922 if I hadn't dragged 2 others with me...


And #3 is waiting in the wings for the next test session.

From: "Dee D. Flint"

"Vshah101" wrote in message
...

Some Hams will take a day off for a Hamfest that is on Friday and
Saturday.
That takes one day away that could be used for a real vacation day. Just
go
Saturday - you won't miss anything. Also, lets not schedule Hamfests and
other
Ham Radio events during people's free social time, as Hams often do.

That's the only time available to schedule. You can't schedule during work
time or not enough people will be able to come.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Dee, you must of not read what I wrote. The Hamfest was on Friday and Saturday.
Friday is a work day. Several Hams took a day off to attend on Friday and
Saturday. Therefore, it was partly scheduled during work. Yet, people were able
to come.

I didn't want to be direct and was still hoping people would understand. Thats
not what I meant by free social time. I meant that hams should not be at their
radios on Saturday night. Yet, at hamfests and ham gathering events (such as
DXpeditions), hams are at their radios the whole night.

From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

Calling "contesting" competition is offensive..?!?!
You have teams of Amateurs trying to beat other teams scores...

Its competetive. Things is hams don't like other kinds of competitions, such as
radio direction finding. Hams stay with their activities.

From: "Carl R. Stevenson"

Numbers = use of our spectrum = justification for keeping what we have
(and maybe getting a bit more in the future)

Don't forget, having more activities, rather than fewer also helps. More growth
in homebrewing, tuning, direction finding, emergency communications, APRS, etc.

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

(Vipul wrote:)
what does it matter about ARS license numbers?

Numbers = use of our spectrum = justification for keeping what we have
(and maybe getting a bit more in the future)

Not necessarily! What really matters is how many ACTIVE hams we have, and how
active they are.

There are more US hams now than ever before. More modes, more activities,
smaller and much less expensive equipment, etc. We have about the same amount
of spectrum below 500 MHz as we had 45 years ago, when there were fewer than
half as many US hams. (WARC-79 added 250 kHz of HF in 3 bands, and we lost
220-222 MHz about a dozen years after that).

But are the bands full-to-busting with activity 24/7? Yes, it's hard to
coordinate a new repeater in some metro areas - but are all the existing ones
tied up around the clock so that we need more?

Numbers = political influence (also necessary to protect our spectrum)

Only those who are active will have influence. Back in the '60s, with about
250,000 hams and no internet or email, FCC got over 6000 comments in response
to its restructuring proposal. A few years ago, with about 675,000 hams, and
the ECFS system, FCC's restructuring proposal got less than 2300 comments. (It
is left to the reader to figure out the percentages).

Numbers (of younger hams) = hams that will survive longer into the
future ...

Only matters if they are active. I know several hams who got licenses back in
the '80s and '90s for "honeydew" purposes. Now they have cellphones. Will they
renew when the license runs out? Don't count on it.

with today's demographic,

What IS today's demographic? Do you have a reliable source?

the sad reality is that a large
percentage of current hams will be SK in the next 10-20 years, resulting
in a major drop in our numbers unless we make ham radio more attractive
and interesting to the younger generation.

Actually, the younger generation first has to know ham radio even exists.

To do that, we can't force the
PC/internet generation to cling to/embrace some "traditions" (such as Morse)
in which the "older generation" iks so deeply invested (in an emotional
sense).

How do you know, Carl?

From 1996 to 2001, I did Field Day with a local group of clubs at a local park.
Location was chosen for visibility to the non-ham public. Lots of young people
came through, asked lots of questions, took lots of literature. The computers
and voice operation got a passing glance from most of 'em. But they were almost
universally fascinated by the CW tent, where I and a few others held forth,
with one ham operating while another explained and translated.

This was not an isolated occurrence - it happened again and again. The fact
that we were making CW contacts faster and with less effort than the 'phone
folks was not lost on the visitors, either.

eliminating Morse testing will help

No, it won't. The entry-level license is already code free. Eliminating
Morse testing will not cause more people to want to join.

Yup. The real problem is things like lack of publicity.

omigawd, I'm agreeing with Vipul!

Many folks are interested in HF access as part of their "portfolio" of
capabilities ... the entry level license currently precludes them from
HF use ... that is a major disincentive to many.

I disagree 100%, but let's put that aside for a moment.

Suppose tomorrow morning, next week or next month, by some method or another,
FCC just dumps Element 1 and merges the Tech and Tech Plus licenses. The
entry-level license will then have some HF access, consisting of little CW-only
slivers of 80, 40 and 15 meters, plus a slightly bigger chunk of 10 meters with
SSB and CW. All with a power limitation. Above 30 MHz, though, the entry level
license has all privileges. Is that really the best arrangement? Will the
removal of Element 1 fix that alleged disincentive problem?

Or are other changes needed?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Vshah101 wrote:
From: "Dee D. Flint"


"Vshah101" wrote in message
...

Some Hams will take a day off for a Hamfest that is on Friday and

Saturday.

That takes one day away that could be used for a real vacation day. Just

go

Saturday - you won't miss anything. Also, lets not schedule Hamfests and

other

Ham Radio events during people's free social time, as Hams often do.


That's the only time available to schedule. You can't schedule during work
time or not enough people will be able to come.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



Dee, you must of not read what I wrote. The Hamfest was on Friday and Saturday.
Friday is a work day. Several Hams took a day off to attend on Friday and
Saturday. Therefore, it was partly scheduled during work. Yet, people were able
to come.

I didn't want to be direct and was still hoping people would understand. Thats
not what I meant by free social time. I meant that hams should not be at their
radios on Saturday night.

Good grief, what should they be doing on Saturday night? I have a
social life also, but no one is dictating what night I'm socializing.

I would say that people shouldn't be spending all their weekends partying.

Yet, at hamfests and ham gathering events (such as
DXpeditions), hams are at their radios the whole night.

And this is bad, why? I rather enjoy the late shift at field day.
Doesn't do me any harm, but for a bit of sleep lost.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Vshah101 wrote:
From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)


Calling "contesting" competition is offensive..?!?!
You have teams of Amateurs trying to beat other teams scores...


Its competetive. Things is hams don't like other kinds of competitions, such as
radio direction finding. Hams stay with their activities.

You are simply WRONG. I love contesting, and I also still play sports.
I'm quite competitive.

Oh, and I do RDF too.

Why do you perpetuate this strange stereotype?


- Mike KB3EIA -

From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

Don't forget, having more activities, rather than fewer also helps. More
growth
in homebrewing, tuning, direction finding, emergency communications, APRS,
etc.

Again, it has already been proven that the things you insist don't
happen DO happen. Why do you insist that they don't?

They don't happen to me. Doesn't happen in the four closest clubs to me, at
Hamfests in MA, NH, CT. Doesn't happen despite my best efforts to search for
such activities. Its not what Hams are interested in.

Vshah101 wrote:

Dee, you must of not read what I wrote. The Hamfest was on Friday and Saturday.
Friday is a work day. Several Hams took a day off to attend on Friday and
Saturday. Therefore, it was partly scheduled during work. Yet, people were able
to come.

What is that to you?

I meant that hams should not be at their
radios on Saturday night. Yet, at hamfests and ham gathering events (such as DXpeditions), hams are at their radios the whole night.

What is that to you? Why not try something different for your amateur
radio activities, Vipul? You do what you want and let others do what
they want. It is obvious that your group fetish isn't working out.

Dave K8MN

Vshah101 wrote:

From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

Calling "contesting" competition is offensive..?!?!
You have teams of Amateurs trying to beat other teams scores...

Its competetive. Things is hams don't like other kinds of competitions, such as
radio direction finding.

Yes, there are hams who enjoy radio direction finding.

Hams stay with their activities.

Yes, they do. You'll find it difficult to persuade other hams to drop
what they're doing and to do what you want to do unless it coincides
with what they enjoy doing. You seem to have a problem with the
concept.

From: "Carl R. Stevenson"

Numbers = use of our spectrum = justification for keeping what we have
(and maybe getting a bit more in the future)

Don't forget, having more activities, rather than fewer also helps. More growth
in homebrewing, tuning, direction finding, emergency communications, APRS, etc.

So start doing those things. I'm sure that "tuning" thing will catch on
rapidly.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Vshah101 wrote:

Don't forget, having more activities, rather than fewer also helps. More growth
in homebrewing, tuning, direction finding, emergency communications, APRS, etc.

So start doing those things. I'm sure that "tuning" thing will catch on
rapidly.

I am sure that if "they" ever create a picture dictionary,
Vippy's picture will premier next to the term "clueless".

Steve, K4YZ

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

(Vipul wrote:)
what does it matter about ARS license numbers?

Numbers = use of our spectrum = justification for keeping what we have
(and maybe getting a bit more in the future)

Not necessarily! What really matters is how many ACTIVE hams we have, and
how
active they are.

I agree that that is true, but in purely political terms, the number of
licensees counts,
too.

There are more US hams now than ever before. More modes, more activities,
smaller and much less expensive equipment, etc. We have about the same
amount
of spectrum below 500 MHz as we had 45 years ago, when there were fewer
than
half as many US hams. (WARC-79 added 250 kHz of HF in 3 bands, and we lost
220-222 MHz about a dozen years after that).

But are the bands full-to-busting with activity 24/7? Yes, it's hard to
coordinate a new repeater in some metro areas - but are all the existing
ones
tied up around the clock so that we need more?

That's a whole different argument.

with today's demographic,

What IS today's demographic? Do you have a reliable source?

The last data I saw, the average age of US hams was somewhere
in the 60's ... how that's changed in the last couple of years is probably
anyone's guess, since the age data no longer seems to be available,
but I doubt it's come down dramatically.

the sad reality is that a large
percentage of current hams will be SK in the next 10-20 years, resulting
in a major drop in our numbers unless we make ham radio more attractive
and interesting to the younger generation.

Actually, the younger generation first has to know ham radio even exists.

This is true ...

To do that, we can't force the
PC/internet generation to cling to/embrace some "traditions" (such as
Morse)
in which the "older generation" iks so deeply invested (in an emotional
sense).

How do you know, Carl?

It seems obvious that you generally can't force anyone to do something
they don't want to do ...

eliminating Morse testing will help

No, it won't. The entry-level license is already code free. Eliminating
Morse testing will not cause more people to want to join.

I disagree. Eliminating Morse testing will remove a barrier to advancement
that many folks find disagreeable ... keep the carrot, eliminate the stick.

Many folks are interested in HF access as part of their "portfolio" of
capabilities ... the entry level license currently precludes them from
HF use ... that is a major disincentive to many.

I disagree 100%, but let's put that aside for a moment.

We obviously disagree. What makes you think that "Many folks are interested
in HF access as part of their 'portfolio' of capabilities." ???
(That the entry level license currently precludes them from HF use is a fact
and
I don't see how you could begin to dispute that.)

Suppose tomorrow morning, next week or next month, by some method or
another,
FCC just dumps Element 1 and merges the Tech and Tech Plus licenses. The
entry-level license will then have some HF access, consisting of little
CW-only
slivers of 80, 40 and 15 meters, plus a slightly bigger chunk of 10 meters
with
SSB and CW. All with a power limitation. Above 30 MHz, though, the entry
level
license has all privileges. Is that really the best arrangement? Will the
removal of Element 1 fix that alleged disincentive problem?

I believe so ... getting even a "taste" of HF operation as a Tech will be a
good
thing.

I also believe that many current Techs will upgrade to General rather
promptly
once the code test goes away. (some won't, being content with their current
privs, but I believe many will want to extend their privs to HF and will
take,
and pass, the General written to get there).

Or are other changes needed?

Is that supposed to be a "trick question" ???

NCI's "agenda" is to eliminate Morse testing.

Carl - wk3c

Vshah101 wrote:
From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)


Don't forget, having more activities, rather than fewer also helps. More

growth

in homebrewing, tuning, direction finding, emergency communications, APRS,

etc.

Again, it has already been proven that the things you insist don't
happen DO happen. Why do you insist that they don't?


They don't happen to me. Doesn't happen in the four closest clubs to me, at
Hamfests in MA, NH, CT. Doesn't happen despite my best efforts to search for
such activities. Its not what Hams are interested in.


Perhaps you need to look to other possibilities for why you don't get
along with hams.


- mike KB3EIA -

Scott Unit 69 wrote:

As of July 15, 2003:
Technician - 257,319 (increase of 51,925)

It would have been 51,922 if I hadn't dragged 2 others with me...

And I got someone to renew their license after 1.5 years had passed
after expiration.

My current total: 4

1 for me.
2 for new.
1 for renew.

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

(Vipul wrote:)
what does it matter about ARS license numbers?

Numbers = use of our spectrum = justification for keeping what we have
(and maybe getting a bit more in the future)

Not necessarily! What really matters is how many ACTIVE hams we have, and
how active they are.

I agree that that is true, but in purely political terms, the number of
licensees counts, too.

Sure - but it's only part of the picture.

There are more US hams now than ever before. More modes, more activities,
smaller and much less expensive equipment, etc. We have about the same
amount
of spectrum below 500 MHz as we had 45 years ago, when there were fewer
than
half as many US hams. (WARC-79 added 250 kHz of HF in 3 bands, and we lost
220-222 MHz about a dozen years after that).

But are the bands full-to-busting with activity 24/7? Yes, it's hard to
coordinate a new repeater in some metro areas - but are all the existing
ones tied up around the clock so that we need more?

That's a whole different argument.

I mean it as a discussion. One of the reasons hams have stuck with technology
such as FM repeaters on dedicated pairs is that except in a few areas there's
no pressing need for more. Also why bands like 222 and above 450 are
underutilized.

For example, one of the things that drove hams to abandon AM and NBFM in the
'50s was the crowding and heterodynes in the 'phone bands when AM was king.
This may be a big reason for the "great giveaway" of late 1952.

with today's demographic,

What IS today's demographic? Do you have a reliable source?

The last data I saw, the average age of US hams was somewhere
in the 60's ...

From what source? FCC has been on-again, off-again with the requirement for DOB
info.

"average age" tells us very little unless we know how it is determined. Mean?
Median? What's the distribution curve look like?

I recall seeing an 11 year old Extra and a 79 year old Advanced talking at FD a
few years back. Their "average age" works out to 45...

how that's changed in the last couple of years is probably
anyone's guess, since the age data no longer seems to be available,
but I doubt it's come down dramatically.

Perception can be quite different from reality. Unless we have the entire
database or a truly representative sample, impressions are misleading.

the sad reality is that a large
percentage of current hams will be SK in the next 10-20 years, resulting
in a major drop in our numbers unless we make ham radio more attractive
and interesting to the younger generation.

Actually, the younger generation first has to know ham radio even exists.

This is true ...

Something we gotta fix.

To do that, we can't force the
PC/internet generation to cling to/embrace some "traditions" (such as
Morse)
in which the "older generation" iks so deeply invested (in an emotional
sense).

How do you know, Carl?

It seems obvious that you generally can't force anyone to do something
they don't want to do ...

Of course. But how do you know that young people won't embrace traditions? For
many people, the novelty of doing something that isn't mainstream is a big
attraction. PCs used to be like that - now they're appliances.

eliminating Morse testing will help

No, it won't. The entry-level license is already code free. Eliminating
Morse testing will not cause more people to want to join.

I disagree. Eliminating Morse testing will remove a barrier to advancement
that many folks find disagreeable ... keep the carrot, eliminate the stick.

And if removal doesn't change the growth appreciably?

Many folks are interested in HF access as part of their "portfolio" of
capabilities ... the entry level license currently precludes them from
HF use ... that is a major disincentive to many.

I disagree 100%, but let's put that aside for a moment.

We obviously disagree. What makes you think that "Many folks are interested
in HF access as part of their 'portfolio' of capabilities." ???

The disagreement is that the code test is a major disincentive to many. It's
just a requirement. However, let's put that aside because it will soon be a
moot point.

(That the entry level license currently precludes them from HF use is a fact
and I don't see how you could begin to dispute that.)

I'm not disputing it

Suppose tomorrow morning, next week or next month, by some method or
another,
FCC just dumps Element 1 and merges the Tech and Tech Plus licenses. The
entry-level license will then have some HF access, consisting of little
CW-only
slivers of 80, 40 and 15 meters, plus a slightly bigger chunk of 10 meters
with
SSB and CW. All with a power limitation. Above 30 MHz, though, the entry
level
license has all privileges. Is that really the best arrangement? Will the
removal of Element 1 fix that alleged disincentive problem?

I believe so ... getting even a "taste" of HF operation as a Tech will be a
good thing.

Even if that "taste" consists of nothing but Morse/CW on little parts of four
bands, plus a bit of SSB on a fourth band that will largely be dead as we head
into the sunspot minimum? That's what you're saying - take away the code test
but leave most of the entry-level HF privs as CW/Morse!

I also believe that many current Techs will upgrade to General rather
promptly
once the code test goes away. (some won't, being content with their current
privs, but I believe many will want to extend their privs to HF and will
take,
and pass, the General written to get there).

We'll see. I think many won't. Look what happened to existing Tech Pluses -
even after three years, the number of Tech Pluses is about half what it was in
April 2000. Of those are gone from the Tech Plus numbers, some upgraded, some
dropped out, and some were renewed as Techs - even though none of them had to
take a code test to get a General, and many didn't even have to take a written
test.

Look at how little the Advanced numbers have dropped, even though getting an
Extra only takes a written test.

Or are other changes needed?

Is that supposed to be a "trick question" ???

Nope. The whole artificial above/below 30 MHz thing came about because of
S25.5. That's not going to be an issue much longer. Time to take a fresh look
at things.

NCI's "agenda" is to eliminate Morse testing.

I'm not asking "NCI". I'm asking a wideranging question of anyone who's
interested. It's time to look beyond the code test as the only issue on the
table, if we're really interested in improving the future of the ARS.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

eliminating Morse testing will help,

Depends on an accurate definition of "help". I seriously doubt any help
will accrue
from allowing all the freebanding illiterati to migrate down to HF.

That's a bogus argument

Not really. It's not universal, either.

... since the "freebanders" operate without any
regard for the law, why would the allow a Morse test requirement to
dissuade them ...

I think you meant "why would they allow" - I'll go on that assumption

they have no licenses to operate any way (and don't
care to get them) ...

Here's how it works - in theory, anyway:

Most freebanders started out as cb users who then got tired of the limitations
of 5 watts and 40 channels. But, having had "a taste of HF", they wanted more -
more power, more spectrum, etc. Some became hams. Others looked into the
requirements for a ham license, saw the code test, and said 'no thanks".
Instead, they began running higher power and on frequencies adjacent to the
legal 40 channels.

With the code test gone, it will be a lot easier for folks like that to get ham
licenses. Most of them already know enough theory and regs to pass the
Technician written. They already have antennas and equipment that will work on
10 meters.

Carl, you have told us repeatedly that you know engineers who would have become
hams except for the code test. I think the word was "disincentive". And even
after the code test was gone for VHF/UHF, they did not become hams because they
wanted HF access.

If that was true for those engineers, why wouldn't it be true for lots of other
people?

This reminds me of the "We'll be over-run by the 'mongrel hordes' from
the CB bands FUD ... that hasn't happened either.

A lot of today's hams were or are cb users. Most are well behaved, but a few
are not.

Get real.

One of the most-repeated arguments I have heard from the nocodetest folks is
that the code test acts as a "barrier" to a ham license for many people who are
interested in radio not interested in code. If that is true, why wouldn't it be
true for cb users, freebanders and lots of other people?

--

Now maybe, just maybe, the removal of the code test will result in lots of new
law-abiding, progressive hams, interested in helping the ARS progress into the
21st century with new modes, new technologies and a new vision of the future.
We'll know pretty soon.

73 de Jim, N2EY

73 de Jim, N2EY

From: Mike Coslo

Perhaps you need to look to other possibilities for why you don't get
along with hams.

I was re-invited to the last DXexpedition I went to, so I get along with Hams.

From: (N2EY)

Carl, you have told us repeatedly that you know engineers who would have
become
hams except for the code test.

And even
after the code test was gone for VHF/UHF, they did not become hams because
they
wanted HF access.

The full spectrum, except HF, is a good incentive to get a Ham license.
Probably not all Engineers want or need HF so much that they wouldn't become a
Ham because of a code test.

A lot of today's hams were or are cb users.

Not me.

Now maybe, just maybe, the removal of the code test will result in lots of
new
law-abiding, progressive hams, interested in helping the ARS progress into
the
21st century with new modes, new technologies and a new vision of the future.

There is a code free license right now, so probably not.

Vshah101 wrote:
From: Mike Coslo


Perhaps you need to look to other possibilities for why you don't get
along with hams.


I was re-invited to the last DXexpedition I went to, so I get along with Hams.

Do they know how you talk about them?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Vshah101 wrote:

From: Mike Coslo

Perhaps you need to look to other possibilities for why you don't get
along with hams.

I was re-invited to the last DXexpedition I went to, so I get along with Hams.

You didn't go on a "DXexpedition".

Dave K8MN

From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

They don't happen to me. Doesn't happen in the four closest clubs to me, at
Hamfests in MA, NH, CT. Doesn't happen despite my best efforts to search
for
such activities. Its not what Hams are interested in.

And you refuse to identify these clubs by name. I am sure that is
directly due to the fact that we will then be able to confirm, via
third parties, that you silly assertions are false.

I went to a Ham club in CT yesterday. I know, failure results from doing the
same things that didn't work before, but it was a "new" type of club. It was
the VHF/UHF/Microwave club in CT. Between the DXpedition and this event, I will
skeptical of any Ham Radio event from now on.

Lots of homebrewed microwave stuff. And they supposedly did Minimum Signal
Testing, although I didn't stick around to verify this.

I found the Ham culture similar to other clubs, however. Mostly talking about
Ham stuff. Some technical talk about their setup. However, the technical person
would feel out of place there. A few talked about the people they contacted. A
few were happy to include others. Most of them were not. They seemed to contact
people through the radio, but not in person.

About 20+ people were there. More were showing up, but I didn't say long. Also,
it was 100% male. About half were old and about 75% were overweight. Not that
there is anything wrong with that. There just seems to be a correlation in Ham
Radio demographics. What is is about Ham radio that makes you want to eat
alot? Surprising, Ham Radio brings in few females.

Again, WHY do you insist that these things don't go on when
indeed they are frequent topics of conversation in QST, 73, CQ,
etc...?!?!

I cant find any, despite my best effort. Lets face it, Hams are anti-social
males. Significant percentages are overweight and older. Most do not like the
technical aspect, either. You'll find that at any random Ham Radio gathering or
event.

In article , (N2EY)
writes:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:


For example, one of the things that drove hams to abandon AM and NBFM in the
'50s was the crowding and heterodynes in the 'phone bands when AM was king.
This may be a big reason for the "great giveaway" of late 1952.

"AM?!?" All along you've insisted that US hams had SSB in the 1950s!



Perception can be quite different from reality. Unless we have the entire
database or a truly representative sample, impressions are misleading.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...you keep interpreting your database info and claiming it
is THE interpretation. Are you saying you are now MISLEADING
everyone?!?



Actually, the younger generation first has to know ham radio even exists.

This is true ...

Something we gotta fix.

Why? Is it broke? No sense "fixing" something if it ain't broken. :-)



Of course. But how do you know that young people won't embrace traditions?
For many people, the novelty of doing something that isn't mainstream is a big
attraction. PCs used to be like that - now they're appliances.

Radio stations in homes were once new and interesting. Around 1935
or so. Now, HF transceivers are just appliances.

1935 was, oh, around SIXTY-EIGHT YEARS AGO. :-)



We obviously disagree. What makes you think that "Many folks are interested
in HF access as part of their 'portfolio' of capabilities." ???

The disagreement is that the code test is a major disincentive to many. It's
just a requirement. However, let's put that aside because it will soon be a
moot point.

No, no!! Say it isn't so! You've reiterated that a morse code test is
NECESSARY because so many hams around the world use morse
code! Don't tell us you've changed your mind?!?!


Nope. The whole artificial above/below 30 MHz thing came about because of
S25.5. That's not going to be an issue much longer. Time to take a fresh look
at things.

A "fresh look?!?" Good grief.

Definitely a change of mind. Reverend Jim must have found a new stash.



NCI's "agenda" is to eliminate Morse testing.

I'm not asking "NCI".

Sorry, you are blatantly addressing Carl and NCI.

I'm asking a wideranging question of anyone who's
interested. It's time to look beyond the code test as the only issue on the
table, if we're really interested in improving the future of the ARS.

Then apply for a staff position at ARRL. Remember, Dave Sumner will
retire eventually...there's your CHANCE at becoming Executive
Director For Life! :-)

Until then, test element 1 is still in Part 97. The fat lady hasn't sung.
It ain't over in here yet until test element goes away.

LHA

From: Dave Heil k8mn

I thought you told us that hams don't homebrew gear.

I guess VHF/UHF/Microwave or QRP clubs do.

What would you expect hams to talk about a ham radio club meeting?

It was an operating event, not a club meeting.

I did not expect them to be similar to other clubs. When I asked different
people about their setup, he seemed busy and not wanting to talk about it. If
it was me, I would happily explain what I made, brag about it, show interested
people schematics, share technical info, etc.

However, the technical person
would feel out of place there.

You mean around the homebrew microwave gear?

Yes, once they were setup, they were much the same as the non-homebrewing Ham.

Are you telling us that they sat around conversing with each other by
using their homebrew microwave gear while at the meeting?

They contacted other Hams, not the same hams that were at the gathering, of
course.

What is is about Ham radio that makes you want to eat
alot?

Oh, you believe that amateur radio causes overeating. Ever hang around
a Burger King?

Okay, it was not a random group (they were a VHF/UHF/Microwave club), but it
was still Hams. And this trend occurs at several Ham radio events. Such events
require little physical activity. Also, people often eat unhealthy food at
these events. This could be a good reason for the tendency to weigh more.

Most do not like the
technical aspect, either. You'll find that at any random Ham Radio
gathering or
event.

You don't know anything about what most do.

Sure, I have not taken a poll. But isn't it foolish to believe otherwise when
you always encounter is anti-social, non technical people? I "let" my club
membership expire. If I am missing a segment that fits what I am looking for, I
would like to know about it and I would join that type of club.

From: Dave Heil k8mn

When I asked different
people about their setup, he seemed busy and not wanting to talk about it.
If
it was me, I would happily explain what I made, brag about it, show
interested
people schematics, share technical info, etc.

The more you go on with these tales, the more I suspect that you
fabricate portions so as to promote your agenda.

Please tell me how what I said was fabricated. What would they have said
instead? Are you saying they were enthiusiastic about explaining their setup,
and I said the reverse?

Sure, I have not taken a poll.

Then you have no factual evidence.

I have seen it first hand. Where it the alternate reality? If its not too far
from me (so I can get there), then tell me about it. Please provide an example.

Vshah101 wrote:

From: Dave Heil k8mn

When I asked different
people about their setup, he seemed busy and not wanting to talk about it.
If
it was me, I would happily explain what I made, brag about it, show
interested
people schematics, share technical info, etc.

The more you go on with these tales, the more I suspect that you
fabricate portions so as to promote your agenda.

Please tell me how what I said was fabricated. What would they have said
instead?

I suppose you mean, "How could I have fabricated portions to further my
hidden agenda?" The answer would be: by stretching the truth so as to
make it seem that no radio amateur at any gathering is interested in
talking to you. If, however, your statements are true, you seem to have
a god-given gift for honking people off. In all of your tales, no one
seems to want to have a thing to do with you. That leads me to believe
that you are the problem.

Are you saying they were enthiusiastic about explaining their setup,
and I said the reverse?

No.



Sure, I have not taken a poll.

Then you have no factual evidence.

I have seen it first hand.

So you say. Either things aren't as you say or your presence brings out
the worst in people.

Where it the alternate reality? If its not too far
from me (so I can get there), then tell me about it. Please provide an example.

There may not be an "alternate reality" for you, Vipul. You seem to
have your personal black could following wherever you go.

Dave K8MN

These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Tech - 205,394
Tech Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750
Total - 674,792


As of July 31, 2003:

Novice - 33,409 (decrease of 15,920)
Technician - 257,791 (increase of 52,397)
Technician Plus - 66,704 (decrease of 62,156)
General - 141,381 (increase of 28,704)
Advanced - 83,141 (decrease of 16,641)
Extra - 104,453 (increase of 25,703)
Total - 686,879 (increase of 12,087)

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Tech - 205,394
Tech Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750
Total - 674,792


As of August 15, 2003:

Novice - 33,205 (decrease of 16,124)
Technician - 258,384 (increase of 52,990)
Technician Plus - 66,402 (decrease of 62,458)
General - 141,381 (increase of 28,840)
Advanced - 83,038 (decrease of 16,699)
Extra - 104,543 (increase of 25,793)
Total - 687,134 (increase of 12,342)

73 de Jim, N2EY

Dear NCTA:

I regret to inform you that "Restructuring" the US Amateur Radio Service's
licensing system, to reduce the code testing speed to 5 WPM for General
and Extra class, in addition to the existing No-Code Technician-class
license, has resulted in a whopping 1.79 percent growth rate in the ARS
overall! What do you suppose we're gonna get from No-Code HF? Maybe
2 percent?

Perhaps I should take this time to suggest a new motto for the ARRL:

Ham Radio -- Stick A Fork In Us, We're Done!

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:

writes:

As of May 14, 2000:

Novice - 49,329
Tech - 205,394
Tech Plus - 128,860
General - 112,677
Advanced - 99,782
Extra - 78,750
Total - 674,792

As of August 15, 2003:

Novice - 33,205 (decrease of 16,124)
Technician - 258,384 (increase of 52,990)
Technician Plus - 66,402 (decrease of 62,458)
General - 141,381 (increase of 28,840)
Advanced - 83,038 (decrease of 16,699)
Extra - 104,543 (increase of 25,793)
Total - 687,134 (increase of 12,342)


I regret to inform you that "Restructuring" the
US Amateur Radio Service's licensing system, to
reduce the code testing speed to 5 WPM for
General and Extra class, in addition to the
existing No-Code Technician-class license, has
resulted in a whopping 1.79 percent growth rate
in the ARS overall! (snip)


And without the 52,990 increase in non-code proficient Technicians, there
would instead be a 7.85 percent decrease in overall numbers. Of course,
that's a rough estimate - as rough as the numbers used in your argument.


What do you suppose we're gonna get from No-Code
HF? Maybe 2 percent?

Perhaps I should take this time to suggest a new
motto for the ARRL: Ham Radio -- Stick A Fork In
Us, We're Done!


If those with your views continue to deride modern Ham Radio, perhaps even
less then 2 percent. Those changes are part of Ham Radio today. If you
belittle those changes, you belittle today's Ham Radio.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/