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"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Kim W5TIT wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Bill Sohl wrote:

Bottom line: Knowledge of morse is neither a positive or negative
indication of any individual's interest(s) in ham radio.

It is if a person refuses to learn it, or waits until the requirement
goes away.

Balogny... What this states is that all non-coded techs
have insufficiient interest in "ham radio." Note the above
does not specify any license level whereas below the
poster changes to a specific referral to Extra. That is NOT
how the original post started out.


EXACTLY. I'm waiting to see ( another post in this thread from me) when
the campaign is going to start against everyone who's *"never bothered"* to
TAKE a ham radio exam. And, how can it be *"explained away"* that there is
probably a higher percentage of General-and-above license holders who are no
longer even active. WOW, now that's interest for you!

THEN, and not least of all, I agree Bill. These guys are bouncing all over
the topic.


Mike, I think you'll be quite disappointed if you "trust" in someone's
interest level based on their relationship (or lack of) with CW.

Not the CW, Kim. It's any part of the testing regimen that a person
"won't" take. If a person refuses to take the Extra test, they aren't
that interested in being an Extra.

So what. They may have less interest in Extra, but
that does not equate to a broader lack of interest
in "ham radio" (rather than just Extra) as the original post
was first articulated.

Let's even take your own case. You're a Tech Plus, IIRC. Are you
interested in taking the General test? If yes, you'll be studying for
it. If not, then you aren't that interested in becoming a General.
- Mike KB3EIA -

Fair enough on the specific application to General. BUT, would
you state that Kim doesn't have a positive interest in "ham radio"
just because she doesn't upgrade?

THANK YOU!! Let's see what the answer is. Because, I'm willing to bet that
the answer is going to do one of two things: 1) it will skirt around the
question entirely and never be answered or, 2) it will be totally ignored.



Cheers,
Bill K2UNK


Kim W5TIT

In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

And you obviously can't regognize that taking a series of written exams
proves probably more interest in ham radio than one single CW test.

That depends on the written exams, doesn't it? Big difference between a
nobrainer exam and one that requires real understanding of the material.

For example, one problem could show a known voltage source and two resistors of
a given value, and ask what the current flow is. Another problem could show a
complex network of sources and resistors, some known, some unknown, and ask
what value(s) of certain components are needed to cause certain voltages and
currents to appear elsewhere in the network.

And that's just ONE question. Imagine an exam full of questions of that
complexity.

Q&A pool? No biggie - just have a couple hundred network problems of the type
described above, all with different topologies, values and solutions.

How about Smith Chart questions? Same principles apply.

But the current writtens aren't like that.

The key point is that most prospective hams have to learn code from ground
zero, but don't have to learn the written material that way.

Then again, there could be questions like

"what is the air-speed velocity of an unladen sparrow?"

73 de Jim, N2EY

WWHD

Bill Sohl wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Kim W5TIT wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Bill Sohl wrote:


Bottom line: Knowledge of morse is neither a positive or negative
indication of any individual's interest(s) in ham radio.

It is if a person refuses to learn it, or waits until the requirement
goes away.


Balogny... What this states is that all non-coded techs
have insufficiient interest in "ham radio."

Where did I say insufficient, Bill? I'm talking levels of interest here.

Note the above
does not specify any license level whereas below the
poster changes to a specific referral to Extra. That is NOT
how the original post started out.

I Gots no clue here, Bill.


Mike, I think you'll be quite disappointed if you "trust" in someone's
interest level based on their relationship (or lack of) with CW.

Not the CW, Kim. It's any part of the testing regimen that a person
"won't" take. If a person refuses to take the Extra test, they aren't
that interested in being an Extra.


So what. They may have less interest in Extra, but
that does not equate to a broader lack of interest
in "ham radio" (rather than just Extra) as the original post
was first articulated.

The tech might be interested in only the things that the technician
license gives him or her. The person who wants to experience more of
what the ARS has to offer will be *more* interested.

I feel sorry for the person who is *more* interested, but won't get
involved. I have to say that doesn't make much sense to me either.


Let's even take your own case. You're a Tech Plus, IIRC. Are you
interested in taking the General test? If yes, you'll be studying for
it. If not, then you aren't that interested in becoming a General.
- Mike KB3EIA -


Fair enough on the specific application to General. BUT, would
you state that Kim doesn't have a positive interest in "ham radio"
just because she doesn't upgrade?


I think Kim probably does have a pretty positive interest in Ham radio.
But I would hazard a guess that it isn't as intense as say mine. As far
as I know, she is content with her current privleges. To me, she is
operating at her present interest level and is happy with that. And that
is just fine.

I think you are getting my "levels of interest" idea mixed up with some
sort of positive/negative thing.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Kim W5TIT wrote:

I did a bunch of trimming here, Kim. I think your Netnews ISP is
getting mad at the length of the posts! 8^)

Then, I would suggest that both of you carry your angst out on the populace
of the entire community that has not even chosen to take a ham radio exam!

Hardly! I'm not preaching condemnation on anyone because of their lack
of interest.


A no-code tech has a limited interest in *becoming a General Class, or
above, licensee* and that is it. For someone to believe that interest level
in ham radio as a whole is guided by how "high" a license class someone is,
is absolutely ludicrous.

I was a no NCT. But my interests extended beyond that. If they didn't,
I would still be a NCT.


I would daresay that, if one could accurately measure somehow, there are no
doubt a higher PERCENTAGE of General-and-above hams who aren't even active
any more. Note that I have said percentage, so it has nothing to do with
numbers. So, how would you geniuses explain that a Extra class ham has so
much "more interest" in ham radio that they've DROPPED OUT of the hobby,
while a Novice or Tech is still in?

It is entirely possible to *lose* interest also. If the ham becomes
inactive, that is the case. It's a dynamic sort of hobby. I would say an
Active Extra has more interest in the hobby than an inactive one.

Good grief.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Kim W5TIT wrote:
Some more trimming here for ths long post


EXACTLY. I'm waiting to see ( another post in this thread from me) when
the campaign is going to start against everyone who's *"never bothered"* to
TAKE a ham radio exam. And, how can it be *"explained away"* that there is
probably a higher percentage of General-and-above license holders who are no
longer even active. WOW, now that's interest for you!

THEN, and not least of all, I agree Bill. These guys are bouncing all over
the topic.

Let me phrase the issue as I see it.

People often have hobbies as a part of their spare time.

Generally, a person takes up a hobby that interests them.

If there is some requirement of the hobby that the person does not
like, they have two choices put up with the requirement or not get
involved. Examples might be I though about getting a pilot's license at
one time. But the expense of getting the license, then joining a club to
share a plane with several others, and I changed my mind. I guess I
wasn't as interested as the person who goes through all that and gets
his or her pilot's license.

In short, I was not that interested.

My final original point was that that a person who would not study
Morse code in order to get a General license must have an interest akin
to mine towards piloting a plane. That is to say "Thanks but no thanks."




Fair enough on the specific application to General. BUT, would
you state that Kim doesn't have a positive interest in "ham radio"
just because she doesn't upgrade?


THANK YOU!! Let's see what the answer is. Because, I'm willing to bet that
the answer is going to do one of two things: 1) it will skirt around the
question entirely and never be answered or, 2) it will be totally ignored.


I think I answered the question, Kim. You can tell me if I skirted the
issue or not.

- Mike KB3EIA -

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"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Kim W5TIT wrote:

I did a bunch of trimming here, Kim. I think your Netnews ISP is
getting mad at the length of the posts! 8^)


OH! Is that what that is all about?

Then, I would suggest that both of you carry your angst out on the
populace
of the entire community that has not even chosen to take a ham radio
exam!

Hardly! I'm not preaching condemnation on anyone because of their lack
of interest.


It did not come across that way.


A no-code tech has a limited interest in *becoming a General Class, or
above, licensee* and that is it. For someone to believe that interest
level
in ham radio as a whole is guided by how "high" a license class someone
is,
is absolutely ludicrous.

I was a no NCT. But my interests extended beyond that. If they didn't,
I would still be a NCT.


Just about any license class can get as involved in their "privilege range"
as any other license class. What additional things are you doing in ham
radio at a higher class license than when you were a NCT? (Other than CW,
of course) And, why were you not doing them as a NCT?


I would daresay that, if one could accurately measure somehow, there are
no
doubt a higher PERCENTAGE of General-and-above hams who aren't even
active
any more. Note that I have said percentage, so it has nothing to do
with
numbers. So, how would you geniuses explain that a Extra class ham has
so
much "more interest" in ham radio that they've DROPPED OUT of the hobby,
while a Novice or Tech is still in?

It is entirely possible to *lose* interest also. If the ham becomes
inactive, that is the case. It's a dynamic sort of hobby. I would say an
Active Extra has more interest in the hobby than an inactive one.

Good grief.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Your distinguishment noted. It just seems that in some of the posts you
were straying from that concept.

Kim W5TIT

From: Mike Coslo:

My final original point was that that a person who would not study
Morse code in order to get a General license must have an interest akin
to mine towards piloting a plane. That is to say "Thanks but no thanks."


The skill has to be relevant. You should not use some unrelated skill as some
sort of barrier to getting a higher license class

Morse code does not necessarily show more interest. Its possible that someone
not interested in Morse may have an interest in many more areas therefore
having more interest in amateur radio than some that are mostly interested in
Morse code.

Putting this artificial barrier may have the effect of blocking out those with
more ability or interest in favor of those with less ability or interest. The
only thing being that some with less ability or interest learned Morse code,
did HF, and not much else. A higher license class should represent more ability
(in the skills tested), not less.

Code has nothing to do with the written material. It's a different kind of
skill. And it's a single skill independent of other skills. Just as various
awards are recognized individually, like Worked All States, one can recognize
code skill separately from the written tests.

The written tests are classes of technical ability. By placing code in between,
it implies that someone that learned code automatically and instantly also has
higher technical ability. We know that's not true. For example, degreed EEs
tend to have higher technical ability since they have already studied some of
the material. They would still have to review the rf specific areas, and the
areas on regulations.

The code should not be in the path way in between the written tests. Basic
integrity in Amateur Radio testing requires that.

"Bill Sohl" wrote:

As an international treaty requirement Morse knowledge
has died as of 7/5/03:


Oh, boy. Now we can start the speculation and rumors about when the FCC
itself will do something in response to that. This "discussion" should be
good for a few months of argument in this newsgroup. Too late - I see that
has already started.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Kim W5TIT wrote:
What in the world is this?

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...

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Anyone know?

The posts were not being trimmed. So eventuallly they got so big that
your newsgroup provider started snipping off parts of them.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Kim W5TIT wrote:

Your distinguishment noted. It just seems that in some of the posts you
were straying from that concept.

There were so many different angles with the different people involved
in this thread, that it was getting pretty hard to keep track of what
was what.


- Mike KB3EIA -