Whenever something good is tried the idiots trash
it. Jam it, play music and tones all over it.

Expect that to be the Norm before long on Ham Radio. Cant wait till they all
start crying for the FCC to do something

Thanks for some useful info, Phil. Amazing what one can do with proper
accounting tools. I know a gentleman in the construction business. Some
years ago whilst he was preparing a bid, one of his men pointed out an error
in the proposal as written. The particular government in question was
widening a road and had failed to account for the left turn lane traffic
loops and appropriate lights. My friend therefore bid most of the job
normally, but bit the poles AT COST while pumping up the price of the
traffic control loops. There were a number of intersections and my friend
got the winning bid (lowest bid). Ooops, they discovered the error later
and since the lowest bidder was already awarded the contract, the extra
loops were added at the price for the loops specified in the bid (how many
hundred percent he padded on those numbers, I don't know. But he did make a
nice profit margin on that contract). ) He was happy enough to give the
guy who pointed out the error $5,000.00.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



"


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"Kim W5TIT" wrote .

Anyone who would forsake any communication venue
just doesn't have a clue for the value of that venue...

Kim W5TIT

Does this mean the fact that you forsake the Morse code communications
venue indicates that you "just don't have a clue for the value of that
venue"? (Your words, not mine.)

Sunuvagun!

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB






--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Bert,

I don't mean to just break in on your argument with Phil, but consider what
we are going through in Rochester, NY. Taxes are sky high, we lost over
800,000 people in New York since the mid 90s (jobs disappearing, wages going
down, taxes going up). Obviously, the local governments are trying to cut
budgets. Police and firemen are not being replaced as they retire or quit.
Enforcement is spotty at best. We just had a large block burn down in the
city due to arson a few months ago. People were doing oil changes in the
streets (if not stripping cars) and oil was left in the streets. Laws were
passed, but weren't favored by a lot of folks. Loud booming radios were
causing problems. Laws were passed, but ignored. Those folks that you
think believe in the American Way started pushing the envelope. There is
now a severe drug problem (heck, if I'm not hurting anyone, it isn't any of
your business). We now have the second highest murder rate in New York
outside of New York City! The problem is that there is little enforcement,
and some folks get emboldened. Locally, they have a new tact. There are
now City of Rochester Police, Monroe County Sheriffs, and New York State
Troopers patrolling Rochester. Go ahead, spit your gum out. If you're
seen, you will get a ticket. Any violation, no matter how minor, and you
will get stopped. You may not be searched, but pray you don't have anything
visible in your car that you shouldn't (like a little bag with some white
powder in it). They are starting real enforcement and there will be a lot
of minor violators that will end up paying some stiff fines. I don't see
any other way around the situation here; I also don't see things getting any
better in the radio business without some *serious* enforcement. That would
include the skip-shooting - at least until things quiet down to a dull roar.
The lack of enforcement (regardless of cause, which is invariably lack of
funds) is not only allowing things to get worse, it is actively promoting
things to get worse.

Just my two cents' worth!

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



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"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message
om...
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
...

If all you CBers with a ham license want to go back and play in the
pig
pen.
Then go ahead.

No thanks, Dan. I avoid the pig pen, but I still do occasionally chit
chat on CB ch. 38 LSB and 40 USB...and no swine present. As a matter
of fact, I worked a guy on ch. 38 LSB earlier this evening who ended
up asking me to QSY to 28.440 MHz. I happily complied. ;-)

Don't even think anyone that is a real ham cares what goes
on there.

Very much false.

Let alone wants to operate there.

See above.

If you don't like that. Tough...thats the fact jack.

Doesn't bother me one iota as it's very far from factual.

Dan/W4NTI

73 de Bert
WA2SI


I feel the same way about CB, Bert. There are ways to avoid the trash,
and
that is on USB or LSB.

I think the combination of some selective operating practice along with some
good old fashioned fool's luck has been responsible for my good fortune on
the 11-meter CB. I run into an occasional overmodulated overpowered jerk
whose signal splashes across the band, but they've been few and far between.
My answer? Additional IF filtering and more recently, the addition of a SGC
ADSP2 DSP board. The results of which are dramatic. I like to preach
receiver mods to those who simply cannot leave their rig stock. If they
express a want (NOT need.) for more power, I suggest a speech processor.
(Forget the amp!) There are some nice ones on the market from Astatic, CBCI,
as well as the SP-1a.

Anyone who would forsake any communication venue
just doesn't have a clue for the value of that venue...

Actually, Kim, I betcha they do...but's it's easier to "follow" the herd.

Kim W5TIT

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

Brian Kelly wrote:


Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to
do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent life.
On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts maybe
five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq.

YMMV . . !

w3rv

So as to the subject "Do Hams get 11 Meters Back", I ask, "why
in the world would hams want 11 meters back?" Eleven meters is
the perfect example of what happens when rules are thrown out
the window, total chaos. The cber's have managed to make it the
sewer pit of the radio spectrum and the sad part is they can't
even keep it in their own territory, they have to spew their
garbage to other frequencies as well.
The fact that hams in general follow the rules, and expect other
operators to do the same is what keeps many cber's from getting
a license. I say, "good riddance, we don't need those types in
ham radio."

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
.net...
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:40:13 GMT, Bert Craig wrote:

Enforcement? Where's the beef?! Oh, it went to pay for that $400 hammer
or
that $1,200 barracks toilet bowl.

Well, it's time to drag out Project Accounting 101 again. As I
posted elsewhere (with apologies to the CPAs and EAs if I used
incorrect terminology as to the accountimne methods in the
example):

The scoffers fail to remember (or understand) that the "$500
hammer" came about by allocation of contract overhead by line
item rather than by proportional item cost....

Follow the bouncing ball for a machine and a hammer needed to
maintain it:

Machine catalog cost = $ 10,000.00
Hammer catalog cost = $ 10.00
Total cost of material = $ 10,010.00
10% Contract overhead = $ 1,001.00
Total contract cost = $ 11,011.00

By Proportional Item Cost allocation method, overhead is allocated
proportionally:

Machine cost = $ 10,000 + 10% = $ 11.000
Hammer cost = $ 10 + 10% = 11
Total cost = $ 11,011

By Line Item allocation method, the total overhead is divided by
the number of line items, in this case 2:

Machine cost = $ 10,000 + $ 500.50 = $ 10,500.50
Hammer cost = $ 10 + $ 500.50 = $ 510.50
Total cost = $ 11,011.00

Note the "$ 500 hammer" in the example above !!

Same hammer, same contract cost, no extra charge for the asinine
comments by The Congress and The Press and The Critics.

Fair enough, Project Accounting 101 lesson appreciated.

As to where the enforcement money went, the nickle-nursers in The
Congress never appropriated it, and even if they would have, the past
three agency chairmen - the folks who have the power to allot the
funds inside the agency - had neither regard for nor understanding of
the need for field enforcement.

Damn shame.

And that takes care of that.......

Thanks again.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

"Bert Craig" wrote in message v.net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
m...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message
.net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to
there
Free
Handout Ham Licenses?


We didn't "lose" 11M, we just had use CB reddios radios

It's "reddios" on 11M and radios on 12M and elsewhere. "When in Rome
do as the Romans do."

Sorry, Brian. Within the circles that I operate, It's "radios." (On both 11m
and the ham bands. YMMV.)

It sure does!!

FYI, folks here are QSX when they're monitoring
the frequency. I rarely hear the annoying "I'm QRT and on the side" anymore,
thank goodness. :-)

I was involved in trying to use CB for it's original intended purpose
in the mid-'70s in 23 channel days. Specifically for comms for a
municipal Townwatch group of 135 citizens 95% of whom had no interest
at all in hobby radio and just wanted reasonably decent local
neighborhood mobile comms. The disgusted group would have fallen apart
if I hadn't moved the operation up onto a VHF business freq to get
away from the CB crud. Cost a bundle but they're still on that freq.

Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to
do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent life.
On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts maybe
five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq.

YMMV . . !

w3rv

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
...
There is no value to CB. Whenever something good is tried the idiots
trash
it. Jam it, play music and tones all over it.

Dan, trust me...NOBODY understands how you feel better than I. I just plain
old REFUSE to let the lids win and keep the band for themselves. I and a
local (relatively speaking) group of ragchewers (mostly hams) still chew the
fat on 40 USB every now and then. If our operating practices rub off on a
newbie CBer or two, great.

When I heard that while working on a CB radio, I just turned the RF gain
down and went on.

I just QSY and operate using SSB exclusively/

Unfortunatly now I hear the exact same tactics on ham radio. Gee I wonder
where that came from ???

That is unfortunate, but I attribute it to the lids themselves...not the
band they came from or the band they're on.

Dan/W4NTI

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Bert,

I don't mean to just break in on your argument with Phil, but consider
what
we are going through in Rochester, NY. Taxes are sky high, we lost over
800,000 people in New York since the mid 90s (jobs disappearing, wages
going
down, taxes going up). Obviously, the local governments are trying to cut
budgets. Police and firemen are not being replaced as they retire or
quit.
Enforcement is spotty at best. We just had a large block burn down in the
city due to arson a few months ago. People were doing oil changes in the
streets (if not stripping cars) and oil was left in the streets. Laws
were
passed, but weren't favored by a lot of folks. Loud booming radios were
causing problems. Laws were passed, but ignored. Those folks that you
think believe in the American Way started pushing the envelope. There is
now a severe drug problem (heck, if I'm not hurting anyone, it isn't any
of
your business). We now have the second highest murder rate in New York
outside of New York City! The problem is that there is little
enforcement,
and some folks get emboldened. Locally, they have a new tact. There are
now City of Rochester Police, Monroe County Sheriffs, and New York State
Troopers patrolling Rochester. Go ahead, spit your gum out. If you're
seen, you will get a ticket. Any violation, no matter how minor, and you
will get stopped. You may not be searched, but pray you don't have
anything
visible in your car that you shouldn't (like a little bag with some white
powder in it). They are starting real enforcement and there will be a lot
of minor violators that will end up paying some stiff fines. I don't see
any other way around the situation here; I also don't see things getting
any
better in the radio business without some *serious* enforcement. That
would
include the skip-shooting - at least until things quiet down to a dull
roar.
The lack of enforcement (regardless of cause, which is invariably lack of
funds) is not only allowing things to get worse, it is actively promoting
things to get worse.

Just my two cents' worth!

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

I certainly understand 100% wrt the situation you've described above, Jim.
While I certainly don't equate working DX on the CB with some of the
violations you mentioned above, I neither do it (DX on the CB.) nor
encourage anyone else to do it.

HOWEVER, I do support changing the rule via the legal and proper protocol.
End of story. I acknowledge that many folks do it now and the FCC does
absolutely nothing, but I certainly do NOT encourage it or endorse it. If it
is ever legalized, I'd tell folks to go for it...but certainly not now.

I realize my position on this subject is not popular among my fellow hams,
but it's what I believe. Thus far NOBODY has really provide a satisfactory
arguement against it. Most attempt to drag other unrelated subjects such as
freebanding and amplifiers into the fray. "Working DX will encourage the use
of illegal amplifiers," they say...conveniently forgetting that QRP
demonstrates otherwise with even less power output. (5 vs. 12 Watts)

I'm not going to change my beliefs just to avoid being flamed on a USENET
newsgroup. Just as I wouldn't on rec.radio.cb when I told 'em to get of
their asses and study for and pass Element 1 rather than play that pathetic
waiting game.

BTW, Phil and I have no argument...just a difference of opinion. I respect
Phil's opinion just as I hope he would respect mine. I did not start this
thread, I merely responded to the original post and it snowballed into this.
I basically argue with nobody. Take care, Jim.

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI