This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the
155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power
and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of DXing. I
think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO.



We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call
it nowadays) CB radios
instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit. But
I think the CBers
might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading
10m. It might be better
to be low key, maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say
something like "if
you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different
bands using more
power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already
love radio, see
how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one
would have to
wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not
the kids and "lids".
Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down. I'm
not that
good a writer, but I think that it could be done well.

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there
Free
Handout Ham Licenses?


We didn't "lose" 11M, we just had use CB reddios radios instead of our
ham
gear to run on 11.

w3rv

Quite correct. (...and too often overlooked.)

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, "Bert Craig"
wrote:

I have an understanding of what CB WAS supposed to be for as well as what it
HAS evolved into. (...and I don't mean the out-of-band lids with the illegal
amplifiers either.)

Well, then you must mean the IN-the-band lids with the illegal
amplifiers. Not to mention echo mikes, electronic noisemakers,
and...well, just listen down there and compile your own list.

I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim
that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's become,
plain and simple. Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it up a
notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it...

I wholeheartedly second the motion!

or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF
and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.)

I think they already have, and I think that's part of the reason why
MURS was created, thus putting no-license radio on VHF where it ought
to have been put in the first place.

and try
to take a little advantage of the situation.

On the other hand, there's no enforcement on the MURS frequencies
either. Around here (Buffalo, NY area) they already sound like the 11m
band, complete with illegal power levels and toilet-mouthed jerks,
many of whom can also be heard on 11m.

Then there's the marine VHF band...

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, Bert Craig wrote:

Speak for yourself, Phil. I certainly CAN. I have witnessed the shift in
what the "citizens" (Remember that word?) want from *their* Citizen's Band.

I want a lot of things from "society" that there's no chance in hell
that I will get. Learning to operate by the rules is a large part of
radio operating maturity.

You want to get into a discussion about who is qualified to
determine what CB is all about - the inmates or the keepers?
Hope you have your asbestos-lined teflon raincoat handy.....

I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim
that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's become,
plain and simple.

CB was not meant to be hobby radio, despite "what it has
become". What it has become is something akin to a free-for-all
where each one does what s/he wants.....

Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it up a
notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it...

I've been in favor of that for decades.....we used to have something
called Special Enforcement Teams in the early 70s - "SWAT" teams for
CB enforcement. When they came to town the grass was mowed real
well. They were getting too close to certain Very High VIPs'
interests and they were disbanded, allegedly for budgetary reasons.
I would just as soon resurrect them.

I'd rather not get into the history of the ****ing contest between
two now-deceased Bureau Chiefs over enforcement philosophy.

or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF
and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.) and try
to take a little advantage of the situation. It reallly could've been a
win-win situation back in 2000, Phil, but false pride got in the way.

As I've always said - wanna' work skip and DX -- get a ham license.
Wanna' use local personal or business communication - that's what CB
is for.

It comes down to wheher one is going to follow the rules or not.
Plain and simple.

What you are describing is hamming, not proper (some call it "legal") CB
operating.

Yes, Phil, I think it's a GREAT idea to whet some CBer's
appetite with the words "If you like what you can do with 12 Watts on CB,
lemme show you what you with just a tad more effort and some studying on
20."

Try "If you want to do all those things, the only place to do it
is in ham radio." CB is *NOT* the minor leagues or a training ground
for ham radio.

It's that simple.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...


This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the
155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power
and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of
DXing. I
think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO.



We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call
it nowadays) CB radios
instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit.

'Zactly! I currently run a slightly older Uniden Grant XL, type certified
and 100% legal.

But
I think the CBers
might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading
10m. It might be better
to be low key,

I usually keep it subtle and have always had pretty good results. NOTE:
Those who bootleg on 10m (Or any other ham band.) are neither included in
this discussion nor welcomed on either band. I'll drop a dime on them in a
NY minute! (...and have done so in the past.)

maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say

IMHO, the ARRL blew a golden opportunity for a win-win situation in 2000
when it comment against RM-9807. I don't think the ARRL's is very much
appreciated among CB circles, HOWEVER, true CB "hobbyists" (Sorry, Phil.) DO
respect ARO's and are usually quite receptive.

something like "if
you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different
bands using more
power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already
love radio, see
how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one
would have to
wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not
the kids and "lids".
Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down.

Funny story...well, kinda. I walked into the corner 7-Eleven and prepared to
get my dailly fix of Java when a chap nodded in my direction and asked "you
a ham?" It occured to me that he had seen my AR license plates and since we
were the only two in the store, it was equally easy for me to notice the
Wilson 1000 atop his vehicle. I nodded toward his car and asked him
"what'cha runnin'?" Well, I could tell right away it wasn't kosher because
you could cut the immediate cloud of nerousness with a knife. "Relax, I've
been where you are and I can help you get to where you wanna be." Crash,
down came the wall of apprehension. He was using one of those zillion
channel Ranger rigs. I explained that if he'd let me, I could show him how
to use that legally. Subtly massaged the enforcement angle into the
conversation too. I lived three blocks away so I permanently lent him my
Gordo Tech study guide and a copy of my ARRL code CD's. Told him the code
test was nothing to sweat and if he any problems just give me a holler.
Well, the next time he "hollered," he had two CSCE's in hand and a new
Tech"+" was waiting for a call. Now that he's tasted more bandwidth, he
doesn't want to risk losing those priviledges on any illegal 11-meter
frequencies anymore. I personally don't care what his motivations are to fly
straight are, I'm just glad that he is. Sure, I could've immediately beaten
him up re. his rig or lectured him on what CB was originally intended
for...but what would it have gained? CB gained a legal op, and he gained a
whole new world of radio. For all I know, he might very well be an Extra by
now. I do know it felt good. :-)

I'm
not that
good a writer, but I think that it could be done well.

I think you just did a great job.

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, "Bert Craig"
wrote:

I have an understanding of what CB WAS supposed to be for as well as what
it
HAS evolved into. (...and I don't mean the out-of-band lids with the
illegal
amplifiers either.)

Well, then you must mean the IN-the-band lids with the illegal
amplifiers. Not to mention echo mikes, electronic noisemakers,
and...well, just listen down there and compile your own list.

You know, Ryan...I've been very very fortunate in that I've rarely
encountered the hordes of lids on the CB. I'm usually on ch. 38 LSB or ch.
40 USB and most folks I've had the pleasure of chatting with have been
pretty good ops. (By AR standards.)

I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim
that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's
become,
plain and simple. Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it
up a
notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it...

I wholeheartedly second the motion!

After all, they do work for us.

or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF
and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.)

I think they already have

Nah, you'll get all kinds of excuses wrt how unwieldy and expensive VHF gear
would've been back in 1958. But you know what...the manufacturers would've
worked that ou and historically ALWAYS have. That really wasn't the FCC's
job, it was, and still is, the job of the manufacturers.

, and I think that's part of the reason why
MURS was created, thus putting no-license radio on VHF where it ought
to have been put in the first place.

Partly, yes.

and try
to take a little advantage of the situation.

On the other hand, there's no enforcement on the MURS frequencies
either. Around here (Buffalo, NY area) they already sound like the 11m
band, complete with illegal power levels and toilet-mouthed jerks,
many of whom can also be heard on 11m.

Enforcement? Where's the beef?! Oh, it went to pay for that $400 hammer or
that $1,200 barracks toilet bowl.

Then there's the marine VHF band...

Ouch, low blow! ;-)

73 DE John, KC2HMZ


--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...


This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the
155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power
and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of
DXing. I
think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO.



We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call
it nowadays) CB radios
instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit. But
I think the CBers
might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading
10m. It might be better
to be low key, maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say
something like "if
you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different
bands using more
power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already
love radio, see
how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one
would have to
wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not
the kids and "lids".
Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down. I'm
not that
good a writer, but I think that it could be done well.


If all you CBers with a ham license want to go back and play in the pig pen.
Then go ahead. Don't even think anyone that is a real ham cares what goes
on there. Let alone wants to operate there.

If you don't like that. Tough...thats the fact jack.

Dan/W4NTI

"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, "Bert Craig"
wrote:

I have an understanding of what CB WAS supposed to be for as well as what
it
HAS evolved into. (...and I don't mean the out-of-band lids with the
illegal
amplifiers either.)

Well, then you must mean the IN-the-band lids with the illegal
amplifiers. Not to mention echo mikes, electronic noisemakers,
and...well, just listen down there and compile your own list.

I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim
that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's
become,
plain and simple. Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it
up a
notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it...

I wholeheartedly second the motion!

or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF
and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.)

I think they already have, and I think that's part of the reason why
MURS was created, thus putting no-license radio on VHF where it ought
to have been put in the first place.

and try
to take a little advantage of the situation.

On the other hand, there's no enforcement on the MURS frequencies
either. Around here (Buffalo, NY area) they already sound like the 11m
band, complete with illegal power levels and toilet-mouthed jerks,
many of whom can also be heard on 11m.

Then there's the marine VHF band...

73 DE John, KC2HMZ


Just like I figured would happen. And just what some of the no-codes are
trying to make ham radio like.

Dan/W4NTI

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
...

Nah, you'll get all kinds of excuses wrt how unwieldy and expensive VHF
gear
would've been back in 1958. But you know what...the manufacturers would've
worked that ou and historically ALWAYS have. That really wasn't the FCC's
job, it was, and still is, the job of the manufacturers.

Your arguement dont hold water Bert. There was a CB band on UHF back then.
It was in the 400 mhz range FM and was called Class A.

Dan/W4NTI

"Bert Craig" wrote in message .net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there
Free
Handout Ham Licenses?


We didn't "lose" 11M, we just had use CB reddios radios

It's "reddios" on 11M and radios on 12M and elsewhere. "When in Rome
do as the Romans do."

instead of our
ham
gear to run on 11.

w3rv

Quite correct. (...and too often overlooked.)

w3rv