Okay, so it's all right if YOU do the insulting, but "not all right" if
someone
else doesn't agree with you. :-)



does it suprise you that the PCTA crowd also adds hypocrisy to it's list
of character flaws?

Clint
KB5ZHT

In article , "Clint"
rattlehead@computronDOTnet writes:

You have to put on the jackboots of the CW police
and march in goosestep with the CW nazis, or
you'll get bashed a good one with a morse code
key.

BZZZZZZT.....Godwin's Law invoked.

GAME OVER

You just lost, Clint.

All your base are belong to us.

"Len Over 21" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

Attempt you insults all you want to Clint. I still say you know nothing
and
have no experience in the mode.

Okay, so it's all right if YOU do the insulting, but "not all right" if
someone
else doesn't agree with you. :-)

If you don't run over 18wpm consistantly, and are able to sit down and
copy
in your head. And have done so for years. Then may statement is true.
You have no concept.

I can visually copy 1200 Baud text as it comes in and comprehend
everything. 300 Baud text is a piece of cake. :-)

And with you smart assed attitude you never will.

Ah, well, with a smart-assed dumb and dumberer attitude like yours
about morse code, there isn't much hope for advancement in US ham
radio. It's all about the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Service.

LHA

Why do you care? All you do is bad mouth ham radio and those that are
members of the club.

Dan/W4NTI

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...


When a standard must maintained, whether it be a ham license, or a
pilots
license, then a test is required. Otherwise the quality goes down.


only if the maintained standard is directly relavent to the operation of
what is
being spoken of.

Adherence to the rules, paying attention to "gentleman's agreements", and
following all the rules and regulations are not mutually inclusive with
that
of morse code skill.

If THAT was the fact, the overwhelming number of violaters on the 40 and
75m bands (who were legally licensed, with 13 and 20 wmp code testing)
would NOT have done what they did; it sounded like channel 19
cb for many years before hollingsworth helped to clean it up (more proof
that code testing is NOT a "yahoo filter")


CW is a tradition in the ARS.

as is FM, ssb, AM, etc.....

It is a valuble mode of communications.]

as is FM, ssb, AM, etc...

However, it requires a certain amount of dedication and desire to
maintain
your ability to work the mode.

as is FM, ssb, AM, etc...


In otherwords advocating freedom of choice has nothing to do with
getting
a
ham license.

I was saying that in response to the accusation that I was forceing an
idea
on
somebody; I was doing just the opposite... advocating a greater range
of freedom of choice.

People SHOULD NOT be able to force a change on the licensing
authorities, based mainly on being too lazy to try to meet the
standard.

it's a representative republic; the very cornerstone of democracy is that
the people are able to effect change when they feel it necessary for
whatever reason THEY feel. The idea that it's because they're "too lazy
to try to meet the standard" is simply your spin & rhetoric.


Why should those of us that have the dedication have to be forced to
have
our privlidges reduced by those among us that are too lazy to bother to
meet
the standards we did?

I wasn't aware that the NCTA crowd was advocating reducing your frequency
priviledges. Or, is that more spin? As far as I know, you and other
licensees
were going to retain all the priviledges they had before the testing
reform.

By the way, thak you for including the latter part of the comment, PROVING
I was right... that it all boils down to nothing MORE than "I did it, so
waaaaa
waaaa waaaaa, everybody should have to be forced to do it!!!!!"


Should be rejoice at this? I don't think so.

if it were true, no. But it's not. Your priviledges will not change; you
will be able
to transmit on all the frequencies that you could before the reform.



We know that is what you SAY. The reality of the situation is based on
the
simple knowledge that human beings will take the easy way. Once CW
testing
is elliminated, CW use will eventually dissapear. Folks simply will
not
bother to learn it.

OH! so you admit the OTHER half of the AWEFUL truth! it comes down to
you want to FORCE people to do something they don't want to do necessarily
of thier own free will! well, the thing that made america so powerful,
such
that
in 200 years +, we have surpassed nations in economic power that have been
on the planet for THOUSANDS of years, was that the free market forces were
allowed to decide what course the market would take... and low and behold,
the united states economic output is one third that of the total of the
ENTIRE
world..... that is, a nation with only 4.5% of the population has an
economic
value of 33% (about 11 trillion out of 34 trillion dollars) that of ALL
nations
combined....

...if people worked morse code ONLY because they were forced to, then
I doubt they would use it at all... that is to say, these same people
would
only pass the code test and then not use CW if they really didn't have
thier
hearts into it. If that was the ONLY thing keeping CW alive, it would
have died a long time ago. But the bands are full of CW operators that
are using it of thier own free will.

If the free market determines that it no longer wants it, than keeping it
around is tantamount to nothing more than subsidizing a mode of
communications. You will certainly NOT make any more fans or
lovers of the code by MAKING them do it.


I honestly don't think that 5 words per minute is asking too much to
gain
access to a large part of the spectrum. I can see your bitch about 20
and
maybe even 13. But for GAWDS sake....5wpm....ANYONE can do that.
Especially with the multiple guess test. Give it a rest. Pay your
dues.
Even if it is only half price...or less.

nah, better to work toward removing it, which is inevitable eventually.

Clint
KB5ZHT



Good points Clint. But your last sentence shoots it all to hotel.
Basically you just admitted your too lazy to meet the standards. Whatever.

This arguement has and probably will, go on and on and on.

And there is a movement to remove the CW segements from the HF allocations.
There has been a discussion right here and I believe one or was it two ??,
comments I read to the FCC.

So there is a group out there that is really starting to **** the real hams
off. Bet that ticked you off, didn't it ?

Have a nice day.

Dan/W4NTI

In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes:

When a standard must maintained, whether it be a ham license, or a pilots
license, then a test is required. Otherwise the quality goes down.

only if the maintained standard is directly relavent to the operation of
what is being spoken of.

Adherence to the rules, paying attention to "gentleman's agreements", and
following all the rules and regulations are not mutually inclusive with that
of morse code skill.

See below.

If THAT was the fact, the overwhelming number of violaters on the 40 and
75m bands (who were legally licensed, with 13 and 20 wmp code testing)
would NOT have done what they did; it sounded like channel 19
cb for many years before hollingsworth helped to clean it up (more proof
that code testing is NOT a "yahoo filter")

How many violators are you talking about, versus how many licensed hams? Maybe
30 violators out of 300,000? That's 1 in 10,000 - .01%

Note also that ALL hams have taken written tests on the regulations and
operating practices, yet there are still violators.

No "filter" is perfect.

Note this plain, simple fact:

The vast majority of hams cited by FCC for operating violations are/were using
voice modes. Enforcement actions against hams using CW/Morse are almost
nonexistent. The ratio is far beyond what the relative popularity of the modes
would predict.

So maybe it's not the TEST but the USE of the mode that is the key. (bad pun
intended).

CW is a tradition in the ARS.

as is FM, ssb, AM, etc.....

It is a valuble mode of communications.]

as is FM, ssb, AM, etc...

However, it requires a certain amount of dedication and desire to maintain
your ability to work the mode.

as is FM, ssb, AM, etc...


In otherwords advocating freedom of choice has nothing to do with getting
a
ham license.

I was saying that in response to the accusation that I was forceing an idea
on
somebody; I was doing just the opposite... advocating a greater range
of freedom of choice.

You're forcing the idea that the standards for a license must be changed.

People SHOULD NOT be able to force a change on the licensing
authorities, based mainly on being too lazy to try to meet the standard.

it's a representative republic; the very cornerstone of democracy is that
the people are able to effect change when they feel it necessary for
whatever reason THEY feel.

Up to a point, that's true. However, the idea that "the people" can force
whatever they want is limited. For example, even if a majority of people think
that OJ was guilty, it is not within the government's power to imprison or
excecute him based solely on what "the people" think. Nor should it be.

The idea that it's because they're "too lazy
to try to meet the standard" is simply your spin & rhetoric.

The same can be said for someone who says the only reason anyone is procodetest
is because they think "I did it, so everybody should have to be forced to do
it!!!!!"

Why should those of us that have the dedication have to be forced to have
our privlidges reduced by those among us that are too lazy to bother to
meet
the standards we did?

I wasn't aware that the NCTA crowd was advocating reducing your frequency
priviledges. Or, is that more spin? As far as I know, you and other
licensees
were going to retain all the priviledges they had before the testing reform.

Look again. There are those who not only advocate code test elimination, but
also the reduction or elimination of the CW/data subbands.

We know that is what you SAY. The reality of the situation is based on
the simple knowledge that human beings will take the easy way. Once CW
testing
is elliminated, CW use will eventually dissapear. Folks simply will not
bother to learn it.

I don't believe that.

OH! so you admit the OTHER half of the AWEFUL truth! it comes down to
you want to FORCE people to do something they don't want to do necessarily
of thier own free will!

Not really. Nobody is required to get a ham license. It's all voluntary.

Why do the schools bother to teach basic arithmetic and math to children these
days? Calculators are everywhere. Why not let the kids decide what they want to
learn instead of FORCING old-fashioned manual arithmetic on them?

well, the thing that made america so powerful, such
that
in 200 years +, we have surpassed nations in economic power that have been
on the planet for THOUSANDS of years, was that the free market forces were
allowed to decide what course the market would take... and low and behold,
the united states economic output is one third that of the total of the
ENTIRE
world..... that is, a nation with only 4.5% of the population has an
economic
value of 33% (about 11 trillion out of 34 trillion dollars) that of ALL
nations
combined....

Things also cost a lot more here, too.

...if people worked morse code ONLY because they were forced to, then
I doubt they would use it at all... that is to say, these same people would
only pass the code test and then not use CW if they really didn't have thier
hearts into it. If that was the ONLY thing keeping CW alive, it would
have died a long time ago. But the bands are full of CW operators that
are using it of thier own free will.

Absolute fact.

If the free market determines that it no longer wants it, than keeping it
around is tantamount to nothing more than subsidizing a mode of
communications. You will certainly NOT make any more fans or
lovers of the code by MAKING them do it.

Actually, all the test does is require entry-level skills.

I honestly don't think that 5 words per minute is asking too much to gain
access to a large part of the spectrum. I can see your bitch about 20 and
maybe even 13. But for GAWDS sake....5wpm....ANYONE can do that.
Especially with the multiple guess test. Give it a rest. Pay your dues.
Even if it is only half price...or less.

nah, better to work toward removing it, which is inevitable eventually.

Then what will you say to those who would use the same argument against the
General and Extra written tests? After all, FCC thinks a single 35 question
multiple choice test is good enough to allow Techs to use any authorized mode,
frequency or power above 30 MHz. Is operating a transmitter on 14 MHz that
different from operating one on 144 MHz that another couple of tests are
required? Or is it just a "hoop jump" to FORCE theory on hams, amny of whom
don't want it?

"N2EY" wrote

Look again. There are those who not only advocate code test elimination,
but
also the reduction or elimination of the CW/data subbands.

I've only seen that from a very few blindingly obvious trolls and a
known brain-damaged pair who's personal flame-fest has been infesting
r.r.*** for _years_.

I'd be interested in some quotes on this.


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In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes:

I, and most other NCTA's out there, advocate ONLY the
removal of morse code TESTING; not it's ELIMINATION from the
ham band.

"Most other NCTAs" - but not all other NCTAs.

That's the point.

No.... more like the Frank Burns character from the tv show M*A*S*H!


--
Ryan, KC8PMX

"Clint" rattlehead@computronDOTnet wrote in message
...
Does this mean the PCTA are more like Colonel Clink, or
Sargeant Schultz?

Clint

--

--

A quote from Paul Cook, a typical "understanding
and tolerant" liberal...

"People like you really have no place in a civilized society although
that
same society does try to accommodate you. You're basically an idiot who
takes advantage of what a society has to offer each and every single day
yet
you refuse to acknowledge its cost or its benefits to you. "


Facts are to socialists what crosses are to vampires

--
"Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL" wrote in message
et...
"Clint" rattlehead@computronDOTnet wrote in news:vmnaife87u3a24
@corp.supernews.com:

just don't EVER speak your mind when it comes to
morse code testing, unless it's to the effect that you
LOVE it and couldn't live without it.

You have to put on the jackboots of the CW police
and march in goosestep with the CW nazis, or
you'll get bashed a good one with a morse code
key.

Clint
KB5ZHT


Hey! Stand up and salute when you say that...

Then shine my boots!


KB7ADL

In article , "Robert" writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Look again. There are those who not only advocate code test elimination,
but
also the reduction or elimination of the CW/data subbands.

I've only seen that from a very few blindingly obvious trolls and a
known brain-damaged pair who's personal flame-fest has been infesting
r.r.*** for _years_.

I'd be interested in some quotes on this.

Hello Bob, sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

There was an entire thread on it here on rrap some time back. Thread title was:

"With CW gone, can the CW allocations be far behind?"

Lots of good quotes from various nontrolling parties.

Much of the rest of the world has no subbands-by-mode, and some folks think the
USA shouldn't have any, either. (I'm not one of 'em).

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Robert"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Look again. There are those who not only advocate code test
elimination,
but
also the reduction or elimination of the CW/data subbands.

I've only seen that from a very few blindingly obvious trolls and
a
known brain-damaged pair who's personal flame-fest has been infesting
r.r.*** for _years_.

I'd be interested in some quotes on this.

Hello Bob, sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

No worries in this zoo! I'm a bit behind myself, as you can tell...

There was an entire thread on it here on rrap some time back. Thread title
was:

"With CW gone, can the CW allocations be far behind?"

Lots of good quotes from various nontrolling parties.

I'll have to actually Google it if I can work up enough non-apathy
on the subject.

Much of the rest of the world has no subbands-by-mode, and some folks
think the
USA shouldn't have any, either. (I'm not one of 'em).

I'm totally in favor of an enactment that would create CW
'preserves', starting with the current allotments and then rationally
_expanding_ them, even, if it would cool the jets of the more obnoxious
PCTA's. (not that that will happen.)

That aside, I'm rather disappointed that you couldn't name at least
one of the 'regular' NCTA's as being in favor of eliminating the CW bands.
Maybe one sticks out for ya...



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