"N2EY" wrote:

Are they the model we hams should follow, or should
we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen
to us?


I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique
history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB
went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal
activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit,
and so on).

The movie, Smokey & the Bandit, was almost classroom instruction on how to
use a CB radio, with Bert Renolds ("Bandit") showing Sally Fields ("Frog")
what buttons to push and what to say. As you may remember, this movie was
about a trucker moving illegal cargo across the country as quickly as
possible, while "Bandit" (with "Frog" riding along) distracted police away
from the truck using his faster car. CB radios were used throughout the
movie.

Obviously, movies like these attracted people with the same "outlaw"
mentality to CB Radio. Today, these people attract others like themselves to
CB Radio. However, if Hollywood had used Ham Radio in those movies instead,
perhaps these same people would have been attracted to Ham Radio and Ham
Radio would have the problems today instead of CB Radio. But, as it is, Ham
Radio does not offer the same attractions for these people (the "outlaw"
image, anonymous operation, and so on). Because of that, most of these
people have no interested in Ham Radio. The few who are interested in Ham
Radio are attracted for what Ham Radio has to offer, not what CB has to
offer. Therefore, these people are not likely to display the same CB-like
behavior in the Ham Radio frequencies. The fact that a good number, perhaps
the majority, of today's Ham Operators owned a CB radio sometime in the past
(or present) supports this conclusion.


Now which is the better deal?


My message was an attempt to undermine Bruce's many posts trashing
Technicians (he is the one constantly bringing up the CB nonsense), not to
make any real comparisons between CB and Ham Radio (or CB'ers and
Technicians).


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article , "Dwight Stewart"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote:

Are they the model we hams should follow, or should
we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen
to us?

I wasn't offering CB as a model.

OK, fine.

In fact, because of its rather unique
history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB
went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal
activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit,
and so on).

I disagree.

Those movies came out *after* wholesale disregard for the rules was already
very common on 27. (Although I've never been a cb user, I have listened there
since the mid-'60s and known many cb users).

At least in the areas where I've lived, regard for the rules was pretty much
tossed away by the mid-to-late 1960s. FCC tried to enforce the rules, but their
forces were simply too few.

The movie, Smokey & the Bandit, was almost classroom instruction on how to
use a CB radio, with Bert Renolds ("Bandit") showing Sally Fields ("Frog")
what buttons to push and what to say. As you may remember, this movie was
about a trucker moving illegal cargo across the country as quickly as
possible, while "Bandit" (with "Frog" riding along) distracted police away
from the truck using his faster car. CB radios were used throughout the
movie.

Never saw the whole thing. This was in the era of antihero movies like "Bonnie
and Clyde", "Dirty Mary Crazy Larry" and such.

Obviously, movies like these attracted people with the same "outlaw"
mentality to CB Radio. Today, these people attract others like themselves to
CB Radio.

That mentality was already in place before the movies were made.

However, if Hollywood had used Ham Radio in those movies instead,
perhaps these same people would have been attracted to Ham Radio and Ham
Radio would have the problems today instead of CB Radio.

But ham radio did not have that "outlaw" mentality. And, back then, such
activities would have brought down tremendous peer opposition by the rest of
the ham community. For example, trying to operate without callsigns on a ham
band would get you DFed and reported to FCC. Not so on 27.

Also, the complexity and cost of amateur equipment at the time meant a serious
investment was needed just to get started.

But, as it is, Ham
Radio does not offer the same attractions for these people (the "outlaw"
image, anonymous operation, and so on).

Only because *existing* hams have the *tradition* of not tolerating such
behavior.

Because of that, most of these
people have no interested in Ham Radio. The few who are interested in Ham
Radio are attracted for what Ham Radio has to offer, not what CB has to
offer. Therefore, these people are not likely to display the same CB-like
behavior in the Ham Radio frequencies. The fact that a good number, perhaps
the majority, of today's Ham Operators owned a CB radio sometime in the past
(or present) supports this conclusion.

Yet in my experience there has been a longstanding problem with the cb "outlaw"
culture trying to migrate to amateur radio. In this area, at least, we have had
serious problems on VHF/UHF repeaters from newcomers who saw 2 meters as a
noise-free version of cb. When their behavior (cussing, failure to ID, refusing
to share the repeater, threats to those who disagreed with them, etc.) was
challenged by other hams, they said "We did this things on 11 and there's
nobody going to stop us from doing them here. We don't care what your stupid
rules say, we're gonna have our fun and if you don't like it, go away". (Almost
verbatim quote.)

The only ace-in-the-hole we had was the ability to shut down the repeater. Even
that did not always work because these folks would sometimes guess the codes.

Now which is the better deal?

My message was an attempt to undermine Bruce's many posts trashing
Technicians (he is the one constantly bringing up the CB nonsense), not to
make any real comparisons between CB and Ham Radio (or CB'ers and
Technicians).

You don't really take Bruce seriously, do you, Dwight? I don't.

He's just another version of Len. In fact the two of them are, philosophically,
exactly the same.

73 de Jim, N2EY

He's just another version of Len. In fact the two of them are,
philosophically,
exactly the same.

73 de Jim, N2EY


No im not like Len, len doesnt even have a License, and secondly your assuming
everything I say is truthful. Use the correct FACTS before you make a correct
statement.

In article , (N2EY)
writes:

You don't really take Bruce seriously, do you, Dwight? I don't.

He's just another version of Len. In fact the two of them are,
philosophically, exactly the same.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...try being mature and not trolling for responses by
attempting
insults on others.

"N2EY" wrote:

Those movies came out *after* wholesale disregard for
the rules was already very common on 27. (Although
I've never been a cb user, I have listened there since
the mid-'60s and known many cb users).


In the 60's and early 70's, CB was only a minor nuisance, mainly a concern
only for the FCC. Most Americans had never even heard of it. By the end of
the 70's, the number of CB'ers had increased dramatically and problems (and
complaints) were widespread. The only significant thing that happened during
that time, to cause such growth, was the Hollywood movies (and television
shows) featuring CB. And you could clearly see that influence. By the late
70's, the very first channel most people turned to when they got their new
CB home was channel 19 (the truckers' channel). That fact drove truckers
crazy. And the only way most people even knew of that channel was those
Hollywood movies.


But ham radio did not have that "outlaw" mentality.


Really? I thought that was pretty obvious. We were talking about "what
if," not "what is."


And, back then, such activities would have brought down
tremendous peer opposition by the rest of the ham
community. (snip)


You put way too much faith in peer pressure, Jim. Peer pressure would not
control thirty to fifty million people (the estimates of CB'ers by the late
70's) if they had decided to ignore the rules.


Yet in my experience there has been a longstanding problem
with the cb "outlaw" culture trying to migrate to amateur radio.
In this area, at least, we have had serious problems on VHF/
UHF repeaters from newcomers who saw 2 meters as a
noise-free version of cb.


I've traveled to almost a dozen states in the last five years and such
behavior is extremely rare on all of the repeaters I've monitored or used.
Instead, I've mostly heard polite, friendly, people who seemed to be very
serious about their ham radio involvement. Where problems did exist, it was
usually blown out of porportion by guys angry about others using "their"
repeater for things they didn't like. In one situation, I even heard several
guys antagonizing two guys so they could record the results, which they said
was going to be sent to the FCC (minus their part in it, I'm sure). The two
guys were not doing anything wrong before those guys showed up on that
frequency. Because of my experiences, I always wonder about the cause
whenever I hear people talking about a "problem" on a local repeater.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Dwight Stewart wrote:
"N2EY" wrote:

Are they the model we hams should follow, or should
we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen
to us?



I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique
history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB
went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal
activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit,
and so on).


You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our
company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every
time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight
towers and linear amps.

- Mike KB3EIA and a looong time ago, KBM-8780! 8^) -

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Dwight Stewart wrote:
"N2EY" wrote:

Are they the model we hams should follow, or should
we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen
to us?



I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique
history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB
went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the
illegal
activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the
Bandit,
and so on).


You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our
company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every
time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight
towers and linear amps.

IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy" and the first "Smokey
and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78.

Art imitates life.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote:

IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy"
and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78.


Just two examples, Jim (that's obviously why I said "and so on"). There
were a rash of movies and television shows featuring CB in the mid to late
70's - BJ and the Bear, Dukes of Hazard, Moonshine, Knight Rider, and so on.
Even regular television shows (Charley's Angels, Magnum PI, Love Boat,
CHiPs, and so on) had episodes featuring CB.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message link.net...
"N2EY" wrote:

IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy"
and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78.

Just two examples, Jim (that's obviously why I said "and so on").

Of course.

But my point was that the TV shows and movies were a result of the cb
boom, and reflected its outlaw nature. They did not cause the boom,
nor the culture, which were solidly in place in the late 1960s.

There
were a rash of movies and television shows featuring CB in the mid to late
70's

well *after* cb was a fad..

- BJ and the Bear,

premiered 1978


Dukes of Hazard,

premiered 1979


Moonshine,

premiered 1977


Knight Rider,

premiered 1982


and so on.
Even regular television shows

(Charley's Angels,

premiered 1976


Magnum PI,

premiered 1980


Love Boat,

premiered 1976


CHiPs,

premiered 1977


and so on) had episodes featuring CB.

I'm sure they did. Note that most of the above are TV shows, and their
dates are all fall premiere dates.

cb and its culture were already well established long before the
movies and TV shows caught on. Heck, First Lady Betty Ford ("First
Mama") had one in a White House limo. (The Ford Administration ended
in January 1977).

The restrictive rules on "external and internal RF power amplifiers"
(also called "linyars") were enacted by FCC in 1978. That was long
after they were all over the place. Given typical bureaucratic delay,
that means amplifiers were a big problem at least two years earlier -
1976.

Things did not go bad because of the movies and TV shows. They went
bad because there was no way FCC could enforce the rules, and no
established culture or tradition of self-discipline, responsibility or
rule-following.

Art imitates life.

The song "Convoy" was a hit in 1976. "C.W. McCall" is/was a persona
created by one Bill Fries, starting out as a series of commercials.

True fact: The 'band' that backed up "McCall" (actually a rotating
bunch of studio musicians) was organized by Chip Davis, who is
probably better known for his involvement in the New Age "Mannheim
Steamroller" music.

To really get a handle (pun intended) on when the boom peaked, look up
when FCC gave up on licenses for cb.


73 de Jim, N2EY


thank you, imdb.com

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote:

IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy"
and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78.

Just two examples, Jim (that's obviously why I said "and so on").

Of course.

But my point was that the TV shows and movies were a result of the cb
boom, and reflected its outlaw nature. They did not cause the boom,
nor the culture, which were solidly in place in the late 1960s.

What "outlaw" actions took place then, mighty sheriff?

Did you arrest any of those "outlaws?"

There
were a rash of movies and television shows featuring CB in the mid to late
70's

well *after* cb was a fad..

The "fad" continues, over two decades later. :-)

- BJ and the Bear,

premiered 1978


Dukes of Hazard,

premiered 1979


Moonshine,

premiered 1977


Knight Rider,

premiered 1982


and so on.
Even regular television shows

(Charley's Angels,

premiered 1976


Magnum PI,

premiered 1980


Love Boat,

premiered 1976


CHiPs,

premiered 1977

and so on) had episodes featuring CB.

"CHiPs" featured fake motorcycle and patrol car communications using
California Highway Patrol protocol and radio equipment dummies on
supposed CHP frequencies. Some of the audio of actual CHP radio
communications was recorded and "wild-tracked" into an episode as
needed.

It's "highway scenes" were shot on the Foothill Freeway under construction
in the Sunland-Tujunga-La-Crescenta area just to my residence's north.

I'm sure they did. Note that most of the above are TV shows, and their
dates are all fall premiere dates.

You have a dispute with the entertainment industry and television in
general? Take it up with the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences.
Their headquarters is in North Hollywood...very nice building. Nice
folks in there...but watch out on dissing them or you might wind up head-
first in one of the fountains in the courtyard.

cb and its culture were already well established long before the
movies and TV shows caught on.

"Outlaw culture?" :-)

"Desperados of the Wild West?" Are you imagining yourself as some
kind of "marshall" out to "avenge" things? :-)

The restrictive rules on "external and internal RF power amplifiers"
(also called "linyars") were enacted by FCC in 1978. That was long
after they were all over the place. Given typical bureaucratic delay,
that means amplifiers were a big problem at least two years earlier -
1976.

Okay, here it is 27 years later. Where are all the avenging marshalls
and sheriffs and fast-draw lawmen setting up law and order in the wild
EM west?

Things did not go bad because of the movies and TV shows. They went
bad because there was no way FCC could enforce the rules, and no
established culture or tradition of self-discipline, responsibility or
rule-following.

Yes, pity that...no one to "establish culture or tradition or
self-discipline"
like all the mighty macho morsemen did LONG before Sheriff Jimmie
was born. :-)

Sheriff Jimmie, hop up on your hearse and form up a posse to ride out
into the wild EM west and arrest those miscreants!

Make yourself look proud in the eyes of other macho morsemen!


SO, WHERE ARE ALL THE MOVIES AND TV SHOWS FEATURING
AMATEUR RADIO...AND ESPECIALLY MORSE CODE?

AMATEUR RADIO AND THE ARRL HAVE HAD LONGER THAN 27
YEARS TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON THE PUBLIC THROUGH THE
ENTERTAINMENT MEDIA.

Got yer ears on? :-)

LHA






Art imitates life.

The song "Convoy" was a hit in 1976. "C.W. McCall" is/was a persona
created by one Bill Fries, starting out as a series of commercials.

True fact: The 'band' that backed up "McCall" (actually a rotating
bunch of studio musicians) was organized by Chip Davis, who is
probably better known for his involvement in the New Age "Mannheim
Steamroller" music.

To really get a handle (pun intended) on when the boom peaked, look up
when FCC gave up on licenses for cb.