Mike those posts just illustrate the extent of the problem the posters
have long had - for them code testing trumps everything else.


You just dont get it. Its not just the code. The next hurdle will be easy to do
away with. Dont believe it, just ask TIT, let her explain the magic of a 1/4
Wave Dipole. Let her tell you how most Hams dont have a clue on this Magical
Antenna, and remember it was TIT, and her No-Code bunch who discovered it.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
t...
Carl R. Stevenson wrote:

And I think the three classes of license are reasonable and
appropriate.
Tech becomes the "entry" license, general is "mid-grade," and extra
is
"top." I don't see anything wrong with that ...

What do you think would be a good division knowledge wise between the
classes? The tech and general are not too bad now, knowledge to
privileges. I lean a bit toward having the Extra require a bit more
knowledge, or perhaps experience. I know a few no-experience Extra's
and
it just seems (to me) that some "time in grade" might make the
license
more meaningful.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The extra
used
to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going
to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before the 20wpm
code
was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


I was refering to when I upgraded, back in the 70s. I had several chances
to change to a 1X2.

As I said, glad I didn't now. I'll just keep what I got, and let folks
wonder what I have. Cause there sure ain't no reason to brag about it.

Dan/W4NTI

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...

Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The
extra
used
to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going
to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before the 20wpm
code
was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


The real observation here is to note a complaint about extra class hams
not
knowing
what the length of a 1/2 wave dipole was on a given frequency; has nothing
to do
with sending and recieving morse code skill.

Kinda showed your colors there.

Clint



Let me clear up the fog for you Clint. My point is the Extra ain't worth a
damn any more.

Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Alun Palmer wrote:

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in
:


Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The
extra used to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before the
20wpm code was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


The real observation here is to note a complaint about extra class hams
not knowing
what the length of a 1/2 wave dipole was on a given frequency; has
nothing to do
with sending and recieving morse code skill.

Kinda showed your colors there.

Clint





It was a dead giveaway. Anyone who thinks that 20wpm code operating
skill
means you know all about dipoles has a serious problem that no amount of
discussion will ever change.

The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.

That an extra might have no idea about the length of a half wave dipole
at 40 meters - or more importantly, precisely no idea on how to
calculate it - indicates a more serious problem to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -


My point exactly. But lets not confuse the dead heads out there with the
reality of the situation.

Dan/W4NTI

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...


The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.


They may or may not; if the FCC decides that no "no further change in the
license structure is required at this time" then of course that will be
the
final
word on *that* matter, and we'll accept it and go on since they are the
ones that have the final say. I just couldn't help but notice how certain
ones
in here I think have such an overpowering agenda regarding the CW
part of the testing that it tends to take them over and govern, or at
least
seriously influence, everything they have to remark about in ham radio.

I'm a general class operator; I realize by definition that means I had to
show knowledge in certain areas to prove I deserved recieving the next
higher license class than tech-plus; however, I did not demonstrate enough
skill and knowledge to warrant recieving the advanced class license.
Therefore,
advanced class operators *should* know more than I do, or at least as
much.

That brings us to the sad truth that if an *extra* class license operator
doesn't
know how to calculate the length of a walf wave dipole on 40m (or whatever
frequency), that is a serious issue. I say that because calculating the
length of
an antenna, especially a halfwave dipole of ALL things, is and always WILL
be so basic to ham radio that it should be on page one of chapter one of
every study guide ever printed. Such matters is why I put such a strong
emphasis on putting more priority on written testing than that of the
skills
of
translating a CW transmission.

Sad thing is, most the time I get on 75 meters and begin discussing ham
radio
tech stuff, there is usually one heckler that harangues you about it and
makes
light of the fact that you were talking about ham radio stuff and not what
the
weather was like on a day 58 years ago while an old man sat on a porch
and peeled potatoes in the hot summer sun... true story. I actually was on
the
airwaves a few weeks ago discussing the pros and cons how how to set up
a new 75 meter inverted V I was going to make at home... and as soon as
I finished the conversation with the other ham and he went off the air, a
couple
of hams got in there and began talking to one another BASHING me for doing
so... can you imagine???

Clint



Sure can Clint. And you just made my point.

Dan/W4NTI

"WA8ULX" wrote in message
...
Do you guys dream about morse code tests?



Look lid you still dont get it, I am well aware the CW test is gone, my
complaint still is the Give away Written.

Don't confuse him Bruce....he thinks he is on a roll.

Dan/W4NTI

Clint, Clint, Clint. She was making a point of discussing the time. Not
the code, per se. She said all the 1X2s were issued BEFORE the code was
dropped. Do you have a comprehension problem too?

Dan/W4NTI

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...
Exactly.

That was my point; make a post about back up batteries for
black-out ham radio operations, and you'll get them making
CW test remarks about it.

Make a post about feedline pro's and con's, and they'll
devolve it back to morse code testing.

Talk about what is the best background noise reducing
handheld radio for use on the toilet when you have
diahrrea.. and yep, it's all about morse code testing
again.

No matter what, follow a thread long enough and they'll find
a way to use the most twisted path of logic to blame
NCI and the reduction & removal of morse code testing.

Was it, in fact, to blame for the shuttle disaster?

I digress.

Clint

"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
...
Mike Coslo wrote in
et:

Alun Palmer wrote:

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in
:


Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The
extra used to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I
was
going to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before the
20wpm code was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


The real observation here is to note a complaint about extra class
hams not knowing
what the length of a 1/2 wave dipole was on a given frequency; has
nothing to do
with sending and recieving morse code skill.

Kinda showed your colors there.

Clint





It was a dead giveaway. Anyone who thinks that 20wpm code operating
skill means you know all about dipoles has a serious problem that no
amount of discussion will ever change.

The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code
requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.

That an extra might have no idea about the length of a half wave
dipole
at 40 meters - or more importantly, precisely no idea on how to
calculate it - indicates a more serious problem to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -



But one that has nothing to do with 20wpm, which I didn't introduce into
the discussion

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...


Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting.

ah, and there we have it.
the agenda.


--

Reasons why it sucks to be a liberal....
file overrun error

--



You really have a problem don't you Clint? Or are you just stupid?

I used that statement as a point in time. Thats all.

And you talk about the pro coders having a problem. Shhhhhhhhhsssshhh..

Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
t...

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


And I think the three classes of license are reasonable and
appropriate.
Tech becomes the "entry" license, general is "mid-grade," and extra is
"top." I don't see anything wrong with that ...

What do you think would be a good division knowledge wise between the
classes? The tech and general are not too bad now, knowledge to
privileges. I lean a bit toward having the Extra require a bit more
knowledge, or perhaps experience. I know a few no-experience Extra's and
it just seems (to me) that some "time in grade" might make the license
more meaningful.

- Mike KB3EIA -



Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The extra
used
to mean something. Now it means squat.

To my logic, the top level should be exactly that - the top level. The
expert in the field. This should entail more than the test requirements.
The Extra should be able to be depended on to give intelligent and
accurate answers to normal situations that crop up:

"Whoa there fella, you're in the CW portion of the band operating
voice. Here let me show you where the band edge is."

"Ahh, the reason you can't work Europe is you have your dipole oriented
the wrong way."

"Here, let me help."

The general class op can of course be inexperienced Sometimes they can
do things in an incorrect or inefficient manner. But that's okay as long
as they eventually get it right. But if the highest class doesn't really
mean anything, perhaps there should only two classes

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going
to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

I'm still trying to decide what to do. I do a fair bit of contesting,
and KB3EIA is quite a mouthfull at those times. It's not too bad CW wise
(tho I haven't done CW contesting - maybe if I ever get good enough)

- Mike KB3EIA -


Go ahead and drop it. But a W4 ain't too ruff. Although the "I" gets
dropped in QSB at times.

I do alright contesting.

What contests do you do? I don't remember you. Course I've only done them
for 30 years or so.

Dan/W4NTI

As I said, glad I didn't now. I'll just keep what I got, and let folks
wonder what I have. Cause there sure ain't no reason to brag about it.

Dan/W4NTI

Thats why these No-Coders run out and grab a 1x2 or 1x3.They think this will
make people think they have been around awhile and know something.