"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going
to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

I'm still trying to decide what to do. I do a fair bit of contesting,
and KB3EIA is quite a mouthfull at those times. It's not too bad CW wise
(tho I haven't done CW contesting - maybe if I ever get good enough)

- Mike KB3EIA -


The way to get good at it is to jump in and do it anyway. The way to
start
is to listen to one station over and over until you finally pick out the
information and then to through your call sign in. Also never hesitate to
send "PS QRS" when necessary. You can even specify the speed with "PS QRS
10" or whatever you are comfortable with. Most will slow down.

I'm not particularly good at it myself but am running about 50% CW
contacts
on the ongoing California QSO party.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Good for you Dee D. I played in it myself. Got 147 phone and 194 on CW.

Dan/W4NTI

Let me clear up the fog for you Clint. My point is the Extra ain't worth a
damn any more.

Dan/W4NTI


Thats for sure, but in my case the only reason I upgraded was for the $250.00.
And I got to take it from of a bunch of No-Code Dead Heads. Still havent used
the EXTRA for the EXTRA band segments, probably never will.

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...


Why? Maybe a little time in grade would mean we don't hear a new extra
ask
" how long is a half wave dipole on forty?"

Dan/W4NTI



to me that just doesn't make any sense... I think you're implying that a
long time
ago, you would NEVER hear an extra ask such an entry-level question, and I
believe you are right. I do not believe the answer lies in haveing a "time
in grade"
requirement... and while it's impossible to have a comprehensive test that
covers
EVERYTHING (for obvious reasons), I believe it's possible to have a test
that
makes sure a person doesn't reach the top level license without knowing
basics
that the novice level licensees should be asking about.

i'm also a nuts-and-bolts person... just start at the basic everyday ham
radio station,
at each part that makes it up, and have a question pool that pertains to
each one....
questions about grounding, questions about feedline, questions about
antennas,
pretty much the way they do now but as he said, add "meat" to it...
increase
the
amount of knowledge you have to have in each area to meet the requirements
to
be an extra class ham radio operator. It would be a beautiful thing, and
made
possible by the fact that the perspective extra will have more time to
alot
studying
what really matters to know what a ham radio station is than simply test
eye-hand-
hearing coordination in some old communication mode that's being dropped
by non-ham radio services world wide in leaps and bounds...

Let it be repeated
that one of the fundamental concepts of ham radio is the "progression of
the
radio art", NOT "the progression of the HAM radio art as a snapshot in
time
during the 1950's"... after all, isn't that an oxymoron? trying to
progress,
spread
knoweldge about and increase the use of something that is obsolete?

Clint

--

Reasons why it sucks to be a liberal....
file overrun error

--



Gee Clint...Im impressed. You actually do know something about ham radio
and how is USED TO BE. Congrats.

Dan/W4NTI

My point exactly. But lets not confuse the dead heads out there with the
reality of the situation.

Dan/W4NTI

Thats how get a good laugh, I love to listen to these Dead Heads when there
trying to explain something. Whats even funnier is the other Dead Head believes
him.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:


Why? Maybe a little time in grade would mean we don't hear a new extra
ask
" how long is a half wave dipole on forty?"

It's a quarter wave dipole Dan! You'd think we'd have that figured out
by now! Ducking now 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -


Oh thats right Mike....that reminds me, Ive got to throw out all those
outdated tech manuals.

Dan/W4NTI

Sure can Clint. And you just made my point.

Dan/W4NTI


Can you imagine the rude awaking these Knuckle Draggers will receive when they
get on HF?

Don't confuse him Bruce....he thinks he is on a roll.

Dan/W4NTI


Dan he doesnt know any better, he really thinks he knows something.

Alun Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in
et:


Alun Palmer wrote:


"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in
:



Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago. The
extra used to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting. I was
going to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before the
20wpm code was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


The real observation here is to note a complaint about extra class
hams not knowing
what the length of a 1/2 wave dipole was on a given frequency; has
nothing to do
with sending and recieving morse code skill.

Kinda showed your colors there.

Clint





It was a dead giveaway. Anyone who thinks that 20wpm code operating
skill means you know all about dipoles has a serious problem that no
amount of discussion will ever change.

The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code
requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.

That an extra might have no idea about the length of a half wave
dipole
at 40 meters - or more importantly, precisely no idea on how to
calculate it - indicates a more serious problem to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -




But one that has nothing to do with 20wpm, which I didn't introduce into
the discussion

You are 100 percent correct, Alun. Did you think I said otherwise? Do
you like to argue with people when they agree with you?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Clint wrote:

The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.



They may or may not; if the FCC decides that no "no further change in the
license structure is required at this time" then of course that will be the
final
word on *that* matter, and we'll accept it and go on since they are the
ones that have the final say. I just couldn't help but notice how certain
ones
in here I think have such an overpowering agenda regarding the CW
part of the testing that it tends to take them over and govern, or at least
seriously influence, everything they have to remark about in ham radio.

I'm a general class operator; I realize by definition that means I had to
show knowledge in certain areas to prove I deserved recieving the next
higher license class than tech-plus; however, I did not demonstrate enough
skill and knowledge to warrant recieving the advanced class license.
Therefore,
advanced class operators *should* know more than I do, or at least as much.

That brings us to the sad truth that if an *extra* class license operator
doesn't
know how to calculate the length of a walf wave dipole on 40m (or whatever
frequency), that is a serious issue. I say that because calculating the
length of
an antenna, especially a halfwave dipole of ALL things, is and always WILL
be so basic to ham radio that it should be on page one of chapter one of
every study guide ever printed. Such matters is why I put such a strong
emphasis on putting more priority on written testing than that of the skills
of
translating a CW transmission.

Sad thing is, most the time I get on 75 meters and begin discussing ham
radio tech stuff, there is usually one heckler that harangues you about it and
makes light of the fact that you were talking about ham radio stuff and not what
the weather was like on a day 58 years ago while an old man sat on a porch
and peeled potatoes in the hot summer sun... true story. I actually was on
the airwaves a few weeks ago discussing the pros and cons how how to set up
a new 75 meter inverted V I was going to make at home... and as soon as
I finished the conversation with the other ham and he went off the air, a
couple of hams got in there and began talking to one another BASHING me for doing
so... can you imagine???

75 meters is a strange place. I usually don't go there for the reasons
you mention. I do contest and PSK31 there, but that's about it. And
yeah, they bitch about me too. But I love to have technical
conversations on the air - otherwise I run out of things to say pretty
quick!

The strangest/scariest think I ever heard on 75 was one ham who was in
pretty bad shape and talking to another about his health. He pretty
matter of fact noted that his doctor said it was only a day or two left
for him, and it sounded like it, rattles and wheezes. I thought he was
going to shift his coil right while I was listening.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dan/W4NTI wrote:


What contests do you do? I don't remember you. Course I've only done them
for 30 years or so.

PAQSO, NEQP, Field day, North American. I tried the Ohio this year, but
conditions were bad. I've not been licensed too long, and sometimes op
our club station (W3YA)

- Mike KB3EIA -