Dick Carroll wrote in message ...

I got no response to my private email so I'll ask again here in public.


Hey, I responded.

What's wrong with going after those engineers who are obscuring the
technical facts of BPL? If a doctor or lawyer messes up bigtime and
people suffer for it, he can be called to account. I see no reason
whatever that those engineers behind the hiding of the facts of BPL
can't be cited to answer to their state licensing boards for it. I see
it as entirely possible that the negative publicity alone might change
the nature of the situation-what investor owned company wants to answer
to stockholders for spending many millions of dollars on such a
technically flawed plan which is most likely to lose money because of a
plan based on flawed engineering and deliberate bypassing of the rules?

Another possible benefit of taking action against engineers would be
the fact that FCC *should* be far less likely to approve a BPL plan that
had been shown IN PUBLIC to be technically flawed, with citations given
such as the "neon sign" diversionary.

If that engineer won't answer your remails, send him a registered
letter. If he doesn't answer that, see if he'll answer to his state
licensing board.

Engineers are not required to become Registered Professional Engineers
and most of us are not P.E.s. Phil is a P.E., I'm not. The state
boards can spank Phil but they can't spank me because I'm outside
their jurisdiction. Also note that the FCC does not require engineers
to have P.E. licenses in order to participate as technical experts in
regulatory matters.

Phil is 100% correct about an engineer's employer having the bottom
line responsibility for his/her actions (there are exceptions). If an
engineer screws up and somebody gets hurts some way or another the
engineer might be fired by the employer but the lawyers and regulators
will hold the the employer responsible for the screwup, not the
engineer. The legal and medical industries play different ballgames in
this respect.

So the PP&L engineer who is playing silly games can completely ignore
and/or mislead anybody he chooses without suffering any legal
consequences at all, P.E. or not. Within the limits his employer sets
on his actions.


To do any less is to allow them to win by default.
Of course you'll have to have your engineering all in place.

He does. But we still have to continue supporting his ongoing efforts
and beasting on the FCC as private citizens and as ARRL members.



Dick

w3rv

W1RFI wrote:

Wonder how much BPL garbage that setup would pick up?


My guess is about S7 at 100 feet spacing between houses, on frequencies that
BPL was using. That is assuming they didn't crank up the power to meet Part 15
limits so they could go farther and/or have more immunity to noise.


A question arises - 30 m from what? If every piece of house wiring has the
BPL
signals on it, in many locations you cannot get 30 meters away.


Correct. The limit is for 30 meters distance. There are cases where it can't
be measured there, and the FCC allows measurements to be made at other
distances, and extrapolated to 30 meters. But here's the kicker -- they allow
the extrapolation at a 40log(distance ratio), unlike virtually every other
country in the world. That translates to an inverse-to-the-fourth power ratio.
Think any of the Part 15 guys make measurements at 3 meters that COULD be made
at 30 meters, just to gain that extra 20 dB?


Is there stock equipment for BPL yet? Or could they be using prototypes?


At this point, PPL is going commercial in the Allentown area. I have offered
several times to show them exactly what they are getting themselves into, but
their BPL engineer does not answer my email.

That is kinda' odd, because if I were about to invest millions of dollars and a
national organization came along and told me that there was a major problem
with it, then offered to drive 200 miles to show me, I think I would want to
hear what they had to say and would find an hour's time.

Any PPL shareholders here? :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

Has anyone addressed the security issues with BPL? If BPL radiates from
the powerlines, what is to keep some savy hacker from receiving those
signals and with a little bit of software engineering they could read
your email, get your passwords and see everything you do on the
internet. I remember back in my days in the computer industry, long
before the internet, one of the big defense contractors did this very
thing. They discovered that enough signal radiated from the coaxial
cable between the main frame and dumb terminals they could pick the
signals up some distance outside the building and see everything going
on on every terminal. Should be even easier with the amount of radiating
that BPL will do.

(Brian) wrote in message . com...

What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

Did someone take over a frequency you owned?

Mike, that was kinda rude.

Whoa....BRAIN suggesting to someone else what is rude!

Steve, K4YZ

On 20 Oct 2003 02:03:29 GMT, Dick Carroll wrote:

That's contrary to what was posted some time ago here on this subject.
In fact, I think it was Phil that said that before one can advertise
himself as an engineer or sign off on engineering projects s/he must be
licensed by the state as a Professional Engineer, after taking an
examination, and that to work as an engineer without the PE license is
to risk severe sanctions.

That depends on the state law. In Califoria, there are two levels.
"Title Act" and "Practice Act". There are five specialties
(Electrical. Civil, Mechanical, Petroleum, and Structural) in which
one cannot use the title or do the practice (be in responsible
charge of the work) to the public without being a PE. All the
other specialties are "Practice Act" specialties. Different
employers regard this differently. My wife's employer - the largest
environmental engineering consultant in the world - requires all
engineers to hold PE registration in their specialty from at least
one state to advance beyond the "Junior Engineer" level, and that
all work submitted to a client - public sector or private sector -
be signed and stamped by a PE. Most of their contracts require this
as well.

When it comes to the civil and structural engineers, it is almost
universal that state law requires that the engineer be a registered
PE and also provides a "handle" to "reach" said engineer if the
work is done in a negligent manner. The usual grounds for sanctions
against land surveyers and civil engineers in California is
negligent determination of or failure to file property boundaries.

In general, state statutes also provide a "handle" for the state
registration board to discipline registrants who perform work in a
negligent manner, but a finding of negligence requires a nexus
between the engineer personally and the affected/damaged party - the
complainant.

I have a soninlaw who is a PE (civil engineer) and he took some tests
for the license. I understood that was a profeffional qualification put
in place to protect the public from the inferionr work of unqualified
persons posing as qualified and competent.

According to Phils last post, that was wrong. The publis gets no
protection and the employers can't be held accountble either, unless
there is a prosecutable criminal offense.

You misinterpreted what I said. The employer is always liable for
the misconduct of employees in the course of employment. The
complaint, however, has to be by an affected party (client) or by
the DA if there is a criminal violation involved.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message om...
(Brian) wrote in message . com...

What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

Did someone take over a frequency you owned?

Mike, that was kinda rude.

Whoa....

That's how a good Moresman stops his conveyance.

BRAIN suggesting to someone else what is rude!

I've already suggested that you were rude, so I'm batting a thousand.

Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:
(Brian) wrote in message . com...


What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

Did someone take over a frequency you owned?


Mike, that was kinda rude.


Whoa....BRAIN suggesting to someone else what is rude!


Whadid I doo? Heck just last weekend in a contest on 40 and 80 meters,
I went to some open frequencies and asked "is the frequency in use? And
several times a ham wouls reply and say "yes it is". Then nothing would
happen. Silence.

If those hams didn't own those frquencies they wouldn't lord over them
would they? No wonder they don't like us contesters. Those poor guys had
to sit by their radios all day to keep teletresspassers like me off
their frequencies!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian wrote:
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message om...

(Brian) wrote in message . com...


What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

Did someone take over a frequency you owned?



Mike, that was kinda rude.

Whoa....


That's how a good Moresman stops his conveyance.

Nahh, all this was on SSB. Besides, I wasn't rude to the folks who
chased me off their frequencies. I just left quietly. That was the
essence of my question to the guy. Maybe he told someone in the contest
that it was his frequency and the other ham didn't listen to him.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message om...

(Brian) wrote in message . com...


What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

Did someone take over a frequency you owned?



Mike, that was kinda rude.

Whoa....


That's how a good Moresman stops his conveyance.

Nahh, all this was on SSB. Besides, I wasn't rude to the folks who
chased me off their frequencies. I just left quietly. That was the
essence of my question to the guy. Maybe he told someone in the contest
that it was his frequency and the other ham didn't listen to him.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike, you must realize that its important for these guys to retell
their biopsy stories day after day, year after year, and any
interruption by any danged contest is unacceptable. ;^)

Brian

Mike, you must realize that its important for these guys to retell
their biopsy stories day after day, year after year, and any
interruption by any danged contest is unacceptable. ;^)

Brian

What makes you think you can tell anyone what to say, or talk about on Ham
Radio. Go back to 11 meters CBer

I was referring to the noise in the power lines as it is now.... not with
BPL going......


--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
... --. .... - . .-. ...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Fortunately Charter around here is somewhat ameanable (sp.?) to
repairing
their systems, but it is a challenge still. Consumers Energy around
here
is
next to impossible to deal with though. I am still a strong proponent
to
buried power lines as opposed to powerlines on poles.


Even if the area distribution lines are buried, the wires come up
to (usually pad-mounted above ground) transformers and the
BPL signal will permeate all the wiring in your (and your
neighbors') house(s) ...

Underground distribution will help (some) but it doesn't actually
solve the problem.

Carl - wk3c