Dennis Ferguson wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

"Kim" wrote in message

Yeah, I am glad you re-brought that back up, Dee. I have often wondered how
"close" a comparison it is when we start comparing the wage:cost of living
ratio from yesteryears and today. Because, we do have "bigger, better"
ideas in our products today.


Sure - in fact, my current home (built 1950-51) is a case study in the
differences. I doubt anyone would build a house like mine new today in
a similar neighborhood, but a half-century ago it was a pretty
standard "little box made of ticky-tacky" design. And most of the
differences (more bathrooms, bigger, more feature-filled kitchen, AC
from the getgo) cost more than just simple square footage add-ons.

If you want a recent document with an outline of relative housing costs:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housi.../afford95.html

It shows over a recent time period what I have noted over a longer time
period, which is that less people can afford to buy a modestly priced
house. In 1995, it was 44 percent could not afford to do this, an
increase from 40 percent in 1988.


Not really a recent-enough time period, however. Housing affordability
is volatile since it strongly depends on things like mortgage interest
rates and non-salary income, which can vary greatly. Obviously interest
rates have varied greatly in the downward direction in very recent years,
and we had a few good capital gains years before that.

If you look at this one

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housi.../q303tab5.html

you'll see that the rate of home ownership in the US, which varied
between 63% and 66% for the 30 years prior to 1995, took a jump starting
in about 1997 and was at 68.4% in the quarter just ended. It seems
hard to argue that houses have gotten less affordable over the long
term when the fraction of people who demonstrate they can afford
to own a house by doing so remained fairly constant for so long and
actually took a significant upturn in the last few years.

Interesting. In comparing between the years that are specified in the
other document, they also show an increase! I wonder what causes the
discrepancy?

My link: 1995 ~56% 1894 ~60 %
Your link 1995 ~65% 1984 ~64.8%

Perhaps the difference is that many people are living in houses that
they can't afford? There is some data there, but I haven't had time to
check it out.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

Interesting. In comparing between the years that are specified in the
other document, they also show an increase! I wonder what causes the
discrepancy?

Confounding variables?

My link: 1995 ~56% 1894 ~60 %
Your link 1995 ~65% 1984 ~64.8%

Perhaps the difference is that many people are living in houses that
they can't afford?

Perhaps that is what I meant by "immodestly" affordable housing?

There is some data there, but I haven't had time to
check it out.

Nor did you check out my response, which sstated what you just said.

Perhaps we accept more debt today (as a ratio to income) than ever before.

Brian wrote:

Nor did you check out my response, which sstated what you just said.

Sorry Brian, but the posts don't always come in right in order.

Perhaps we accept more debt today (as a ratio to income) than ever before.

Perhaps "we" will get what we deserve for running our finances so close
to the edge. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message t...
Brian wrote:

Perhaps we accept more debt today (as a ratio to income) than ever before.

Perhaps "we" will get what we deserve for running our finances so close
to the edge. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Some do.

And that's why this country fears lay-offs so much. There is so very
little slop in one's income to expenses that even a couple of months
out of work spells ruination.

No rainy-day accounts either.

But bankruptcy is easy to get, so everyone else ends up paying for
their houses, SUVs, and big-screen TVs.

"Brian" wrote in message
...
Mike Coslo wrote in message
t...
Brian wrote:

Perhaps we accept more debt today (as a ratio to income) than ever
before.

Perhaps "we" will get what we deserve for running our finances so close
to the edge. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Some do.

And that's why this country fears lay-offs so much. There is so very
little slop in one's income to expenses that even a couple of months
out of work spells ruination.

No rainy-day accounts either.

But bankruptcy is easy to get, so everyone else ends up paying for
their houses, SUVs, and big-screen TVs.


I couldn't agree more on that, Brian! For sure, as they would say. I am
shopping for a new home and my husband and I have decided what we are
comfortable spending, what we need and desire in a new place, what kind of
interest rate we'll accept, and what payment we want. Know what? One
mortgage company so far has told us, "you have a lot of room to move,"
meaning that we can get into something much bigger and more expensive than
we are looking for. They seem shocked that we aren't interested in
"maxxing" out our limit!!

And, you're right about bankruptcy, too. When I said to a lender that we
weren't comfortable with the expense they were suggesting, they said we
could afford it and didn't know what the problem was. I told them I think
about things like potentially losing my job or my husband losing his. The
come back was that we always have bankruptcy available!!!

Good grief...

Kim W5TIT

In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

I am
shopping for a new home and my husband and I have decided what we are
comfortable spending, what we need and desire in a new place, what kind of
interest rate we'll accept, and what payment we want.

Weren't you folks having a place built, Kim? Or are we talking about the same
thing?

Know what? One
mortgage company so far has told us, "you have a lot of room to move,"
meaning that we can get into something much bigger and more expensive than
we are looking for. They seem shocked that we aren't interested in
"maxxing" out our limit!!

Sure. I've encountered that, too, in all sorts of transactions, Their focus is
very narrow. And their fees and commissions are based on the selling price.

And note that reselling mortgages is pretty standard, so the people who sold
you the house and mortgage won't be holding the bag if you do default.

And, you're right about bankruptcy, too. When I said to a lender that we
weren't comfortable with the expense they were suggesting, they said we
could afford it and didn't know what the problem was.

Of course not. It's not their money or their house!

I told them I think
about things like potentially losing my job or my husband losing his. The
come back was that we always have bankruptcy available!!!

Now *that's* a new one! ;-)

Point is that the lenders &tc won't protect us from ourselves. *We* have to do
that.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim W5TIT"

writes:

I am
shopping for a new home and my husband and I have decided what we are
comfortable spending, what we need and desire in a new place, what kind
of
interest rate we'll accept, and what payment we want.

Weren't you folks having a place built, Kim? Or are we talking about the
same
thing?


No, no! We're not having a place built...we are ordering a manufactured
home (trailer, whatever-you-want-to-call-it). We are all set with land, and
explored building. But, for some reason, neither of us is particularly
interested in dealing with having one built (there's not one good experience
we've ever had relayed about dealing with builders...LOL).


Know what? One
mortgage company so far has told us, "you have a lot of room to move,"
meaning that we can get into something much bigger and more expensive
than
we are looking for. They seem shocked that we aren't interested in
"maxxing" out our limit!!

Sure. I've encountered that, too, in all sorts of transactions, Their
focus is
very narrow. And their fees and commissions are based on the selling
price.

And note that reselling mortgages is pretty standard, so the people who
sold
you the house and mortgage won't be holding the bag if you do default.


Yep, we've already been told as soon as the "deal is done," the mortgage
will be sold.


And, you're right about bankruptcy, too. When I said to a lender that we
weren't comfortable with the expense they were suggesting, they said we
could afford it and didn't know what the problem was.

Of course not. It's not their money or their house!


Or the accomplishment of having excellent credit!


I told them I think
about things like potentially losing my job or my husband losing his.
The
come back was that we always have bankruptcy available!!!

Now *that's* a new one! ;-)

Point is that the lenders &tc won't protect us from ourselves. *We* have
to do
that.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Precisely what we're doing...

Kim W5TIT

Kim W5TIT wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message
...

Mike Coslo wrote in message

t...

Brian wrote:

Perhaps we accept more debt today (as a ratio to income) than ever

before.

Perhaps "we" will get what we deserve for running our finances so close
to the edge. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Some do.

And that's why this country fears lay-offs so much. There is so very
little slop in one's income to expenses that even a couple of months
out of work spells ruination.

No rainy-day accounts either.

But bankruptcy is easy to get, so everyone else ends up paying for
their houses, SUVs, and big-screen TVs.



I couldn't agree more on that, Brian! For sure, as they would say. I am
shopping for a new home and my husband and I have decided what we are
comfortable spending, what we need and desire in a new place, what kind of
interest rate we'll accept, and what payment we want. Know what? One
mortgage company so far has told us, "you have a lot of room to move,"
meaning that we can get into something much bigger and more expensive than
we are looking for. They seem shocked that we aren't interested in
"maxxing" out our limit!!

And, you're right about bankruptcy, too. When I said to a lender that we
weren't comfortable with the expense they were suggesting, they said we
could afford it and didn't know what the problem was. I told them I think
about things like potentially losing my job or my husband losing his. The
come back was that we always have bankruptcy available!!!

Good grief...

They do soooo love their commission, and the more you spend, the more
they make. A person is better served by thinking of the real estate
agent as their enemy, rather than friend. We went through several
agents, one I left after telling them if they showed us one more house
that cost more than what we were looking for I was walking. Yup, the
next house was more! There should be an i.q. portion of that test they take!

- Mike KB3EIA -