In article ,
(Bert Craig) writes:

Not in my opinion. IMNSHO, folks are a tad too quick to remove the
character aspect from many daily activities, both professional and
personal. How many times have you heard "It's just business, nothing
personal" or "It's unfortunate, but it's the bottom line that
matters." Usually when you hear these words, it's in conjunction with
actions that are going to adversely affect somebody's life. I've seen
folks that have put in twenty plus loyal years of some seriously hard
work for a company and get released just so the bottom line showed a
ten percent profit margin as opposed to nine. (IOW, double instead of
single digit growth.) While there are many valid "business" reasons
that can be quoted to defend this, there are some moral or "character"
issues involved here. I know it wasn't always like this and at some
point in history loyalty was rewarded with loyalty at many companies.
That's a professional example.

This sort of thing is also why CC&Rs have proliferated, and are actually
*supported* by many people. It comes from the bitter experience of
having neighbors who do not have shared community values to take
reasonable care of their properties. But ordinances and CC&Rs cannot
replace the spirit of being a good neighbor.

At 5-wpm, I don't believe for one nanosecond that Element 1 is about
forcing people to become "proficient" in a mode, whether they plan on
using it OTA or not. Perhaps 13 or 20, but certainly not 5-wpm. The
FCC actually has some references to character, Jim, N2EY has provided
an example. I personally believe that *one of* the valid cases in
favor of retaining Element 1 is that it requires an individual to
demonstrate a certain level of self-discipline that is not achieved by
cramming a published Q&A pool.

That's one way to look at it. Here's another: There are very few prospective
hams who already know enough Morse Code to pass the test. And it cannot
be learned (in most cases, anyway) by reading a book or watching a video or
doing a bit of this and that here and there. So it takes a bit of "personal
investment" by the prospective ham, and the result is a skill specific to
amateur radio. I think that specificity is what bothers some folks.

Furthermore, I think that many of the folks want to do away with the
character aspect solely to remove a valid argument against the removal
of Element 1. ("But the FCC…, but the FCC…, but the FCC…")

FCC allows all sorts of things that are not in the best interest of the ARS. In
part this is due to lack of resources.

Does anyone think that BPL can't be bad for amateur radio because FCC is
allowing it?

Was it a good thing that FCC didn't go after that pop star or the network for
saying the F-word on broadcast TV?

Just like
the professional who don't want to feel bad about "making the
unpopular decision" or following "good business practice" while
legitimately shafting good employees. So now we have a whole
generation of young folks that are prepared to enter the workplace,
possibly "earn" their way into a position where they can do some harm,
but won't care because they were taught that it's ok to step on and
use others as long as it fits a prescribed business plan. What'll it
be like in another sixty or seventy years?

What's it like now? Remember Michael Milliken - "Greed is good"? Or how about
Enron, WorldCom, etc.? Those are just the folks who got caught.

It ain't so simple, Kim…at least not to this observer. Character means
something…in all of life's aspect. A hobby and/or service called
Amateur Radio is just one of them.

Exactly.

And to those who say "Who is to be the arbiter?" the answer is simple: Anyone
who proposes requirements - or the removal of them - is being the arbiter.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:


"N2EY" wrote


That way, no one who was
interested would be forced off the air, but at the same time there would

be

incentive to get a full-privs renewable license.

If, after 10 years as a learner and exposed to mainstream ham radio they
can't qualify for a standard license, then another 10 years isn't likely to
be sufficient to become qualified.


That may well be the case, Hans. And since some Morse Code skill is
obviously part of being a qualified full-privileges radio amateur, it makes
sense that the standard license would include a Morse Code test.

I can't imagine "one who was interested" would fail to qualify in 10 years,
but if they didn't, well I guess there are other hobbies like finger
painting which might be less challenging and not require a federal license
to pursue.

Exactly.

I can't imagein "one who was interested" not taking the time to learn
Morse code either, but if they didn't want to I gues there are other
things like wait around until it goes away, which might be less challenging!



So when you gonna send that proposal to the FCC?

73 de Jim, N2EY


The liberals will whine and wring their hands in dismay, but

life's a bitch sometimes.

"N2EY" wrote


So when you gonna send that proposal to the FCC?


I already did (as you knew perfectly well).

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote:

And the efforts of REACT and its
members are commendable. However,
any public service performed is informal
in nature, not the result of any regulatory
stipulation imposed by the FCC or
federal government. There is nothing in
part 95 that mandates public service like
that found in part 97.

OK, Dwight quote paragraph and section
that states that amateurs MUST do public
service.


Okay, Dee, show me where I said Amateurs "must" do public service. Part
97
offers that as one purpose of the ARS and gives us the mandate (authority)
to do so (ARES and so on), but it certainly isn't required.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


your words we

"...There is nothing in part 95 that mandates public service like that found
in part 97."

tr.v. man·dat·ed, man·dat·ing, man·dates
1. To assign (a colony or territory) to a specified nation under a mandate.
2. To make mandatory, as by law; decree or requi mandated desegregation
of public schools.

The way you have used the word conforms to usage number 2. Therefore, you
have stated that public service is required even though that may not be what
you meant to say.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Here you go, Dee.

----------------------------
From: "ARRL Letter"
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:02:59 -0500
Subject: The ARRL Letter, Vol 22, No 47

============================================
==FCC REORGANIZES WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUREAU

The FCC has announced a reorganization of its Wireless Telecommunications
Bureau (WTB) "to more effectively support the
FCC's strategic goals--broadband, competition, spectrum, media, homeland
security and modernizing the FCC." The WTB administers the Amateur Radio
Service (Part 97) and amateur licensing, but the changes are expected to
be transparent to the amateur community. The Amateur Service now will be
administered by the newly named Public Safety and Critical Infrastructure
Division. D'wana Terry, formerly chief of the Public Safety and Private
Wireless Division, will head the new division.

"The bureau's portfolios have been redistributed along the lines of
strategic goals, consolidating similar functions to focus resources
better," the FCC said in a November 24 public notice. As a result of the
reorganization, which the FCC approved November 13, WTB expands from five
to six divisions: Public Safety and Critical Infrastructure, Spectrum
Management Resources and Technologies, Auctions and Spectrum Access,
Spectrum and Competition Policy, Mobility, and Broadband.

In addition to the Amateur Service, the Public Safety and Critical
Infrastructure Division will oversee Part 95, Marine, Aviation,
Intelligent Transportation Systems, Public Safety Fixed Microwave, Public
Safety and Private Land Mobile services and E911, among other areas.
Responsibilities moved elsewhere include Fixed Microwave (Part 101),
Instructional Television Fixed Service, the Multipoint Distribution
Service, and the Multichannel Video Distribution and Data Service.

The action reduces the scope and size of WTB's larger divisions and
eliminates separate branches below the division level, while retaining
their current functions. One of those was the Licensing and Technical
Analysis Branch, headquartered in the FCC's Gettysburg, Pennsylvania,
office. Among other tasks, that branch has handled the granting and
issuance of Amateur Radio licenses and the vanity call sign program.
Another was the Policy and Rules Branch at FCC Headquarters, which has
been the home of Bill Cross, W3TN, an FCC figure well-known within the
amateur community. Among other tasks, that branch has handled Amateur
Radio rule making petitions and Part 97 rules interpretations.

A potential plus of the new arrangement is that Cross now will work under
another amateur licensee, Mike Wilhelm, WS6BR, who will report to Terry.

The FCC said eliminating branches would promote greater management
flexibility in deploying resources and lead to a flatter, more flexible
organization without altering the bureau's overall mission. The Commission
said it was able to carry out the reorganization by redeploying existing
positions.

WTB Chief John Muleta said the reorganization will result in "a
mission-driven team that will be innovative in its approach to regulatory
policies and customer service."

============================================
Required 'claimer:
Material from The ARRL Letter may be republished or reproduced in whole or
in part in any form without additional permission. Credit must be given to
The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League.

"In addition to the Amateur Service, the Public Safety and Critical
Infrastructure Division will oversee Part 95" Hello.

73 de Bert
WA2SI

In article t, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote


So when you gonna send that proposal to the FCC?

I already did (as you knew perfectly well).

But only as a comment to another's proposal, not as a stand-alone petition.

73 de Jim, N2EY

btw, what's the promised delivery date for the '7800?

N2EY wrote:
In article t, "KØHB"
writes:


"N2EY" wrote


So when you gonna send that proposal to the FCC?

I already did (as you knew perfectly well).


But only as a comment to another's proposal, not as a stand-alone petition.


Hopefully Hans has a ready supply of replies for the FCC to use when
people comment on his petition. It just won't seem right to comment on
it there without being called stupid...oops, I mean novel! ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ...
"KØHB" wrote in message
.net...

"Kim W5TIT" wrote


You actually spend time recording it, huh?


Common practice when working weak signals in DXpedition mode. (Didn't you
often wonder why some DSP rigs have that little 'snippet catcher' in
them?)

73, de Hans, K0HB


Never seen anything but a YAESU 890AT, my husband's. Well, OK, I've "seen"
others but haven't "looked" at them...

Kim W5TIT

I sure hope this doesn't turn into a "I'll show you mine if..." thread.

;^)

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote:

And the efforts of REACT and its
members are commendable. However,
any public service performed is informal
in nature, not the result of any regulatory
stipulation imposed by the FCC or
federal government. There is nothing in
part 95 that mandates public service like
that found in part 97.

OK, Dwight quote paragraph and section
that states that amateurs MUST do public
service.


Okay, Dee, show me where I said Amateurs "must" do public service.
Part
97
offers that as one purpose of the ARS and gives us the mandate
(authority)
to do so (ARES and so on), but it certainly isn't required.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


your words we

"...There is nothing in part 95 that mandates public service like that
found
in part 97."

tr.v. man·dat·ed, man·dat·ing, man·dates
1. To assign (a colony or territory) to a specified nation under a
mandate.
2. To make mandatory, as by law; decree or requi mandated
desegregation
of public schools.

The way you have used the word conforms to usage number 2. Therefore,
you
have stated that public service is required even though that may not be
what
you meant to say.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Here you go, Dee.

----------------------------
From: "ARRL Letter"
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:02:59 -0500
Subject: The ARRL Letter, Vol 22, No 47

============================================
==FCC REORGANIZES WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUREAU

The FCC has announced a reorganization of its Wireless Telecommunications
Bureau (WTB) "to more effectively support the
FCC's strategic goals--broadband, competition, spectrum, media, homeland
security and modernizing the FCC." The WTB administers the Amateur Radio
Service (Part 97) and amateur licensing, but the changes are expected to
be transparent to the amateur community. The Amateur Service now will be
administered by the newly named Public Safety and Critical Infrastructure
Division. D'wana Terry, formerly chief of the Public Safety and Private
Wireless Division, will head the new division.

"The bureau's portfolios have been redistributed along the lines of
strategic goals, consolidating similar functions to focus resources
better," the FCC said in a November 24 public notice. As a result of the
reorganization, which the FCC approved November 13, WTB expands from five
to six divisions: Public Safety and Critical Infrastructure, Spectrum
Management Resources and Technologies, Auctions and Spectrum Access,
Spectrum and Competition Policy, Mobility, and Broadband.

In addition to the Amateur Service, the Public Safety and Critical
Infrastructure Division will oversee Part 95, Marine, Aviation,
Intelligent Transportation Systems, Public Safety Fixed Microwave, Public
Safety and Private Land Mobile services and E911, among other areas.
Responsibilities moved elsewhere include Fixed Microwave (Part 101),
Instructional Television Fixed Service, the Multipoint Distribution
Service, and the Multichannel Video Distribution and Data Service.

The action reduces the scope and size of WTB's larger divisions and
eliminates separate branches below the division level, while retaining
their current functions. One of those was the Licensing and Technical
Analysis Branch, headquartered in the FCC's Gettysburg, Pennsylvania,
office. Among other tasks, that branch has handled the granting and
issuance of Amateur Radio licenses and the vanity call sign program.
Another was the Policy and Rules Branch at FCC Headquarters, which has
been the home of Bill Cross, W3TN, an FCC figure well-known within the
amateur community. Among other tasks, that branch has handled Amateur
Radio rule making petitions and Part 97 rules interpretations.

A potential plus of the new arrangement is that Cross now will work under
another amateur licensee, Mike Wilhelm, WS6BR, who will report to Terry.

The FCC said eliminating branches would promote greater management
flexibility in deploying resources and lead to a flatter, more flexible
organization without altering the bureau's overall mission. The Commission
said it was able to carry out the reorganization by redeploying existing
positions.

WTB Chief John Muleta said the reorganization will result in "a
mission-driven team that will be innovative in its approach to regulatory
policies and customer service."

============================================
Required 'claimer:
Material from The ARRL Letter may be republished or reproduced in whole or
in part in any form without additional permission. Credit must be given to
The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League.

"In addition to the Amateur Service, the Public Safety and Critical
Infrastructure Division will oversee Part 95" Hello.

73 de Bert
WA2SI

OK Bert, show me where it says that Part 97 mandates public service. There
is nothing in this quote to that effect.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote
Okay, Dee, show me where I said
Amateurs "must" do public service.

your words we

"...There is nothing in part 95 that
mandates public service like that
found in part 97."

tr.v. man·dat·ed, man·dat·ing, man·dates
1. To assign (a colony or territory) to
a specified nation under a mandate.
2. To make mandatory, as by law;
decree or requi mandated
desegregation of public schools.

The way you have used the word
conforms to usage number 2. Therefore,
you have stated that public service is
required even though that may not be
what you meant to say.


I don't have time to waste on this, Dee. You know what Part 97 says, and
what it means (and therefore what I meant). A more complete definition of
"mandate" is...

Noun: mandate ('man'deyt)
1. A document giving an official instruction or command
2. A territory surrendered by Turkey or Germany after World War I and
inhabited by people not yet able to stand by themselves and so put under the
tutelage of some other European power
3. (politics) the commission that is given to a government and its
policies through an electoral victory

Verb: mandate (man'deyt)
1. Assign under a mandate; of nations
2. Assign authority to

I used mandate in the context that Part 97 assigns authority to Ham radio
operators to perform public service through ARES, community organizations,
and so on. There is nothing like that in Part 95. Obviously, there is
nothing in "assigns authority to" that is required.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/