In article et, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote


Which I sense is a process that Hans wants to avoid,
because there are bound to be both
supporting and opposing comments.

Avoid?????

Why, yes.

What a strange thought process, coming from someone who seems to
be familiar with my participation here on rrap. Do I appear bashful about
stating my ideas, and avoiding reactions to them?

Not here. But I don't know about in the much wider arena of petitions to the
FCC.

The field is currently crowded with at least 14 petitions, and ARRL will
likely make it 15.

The comment and reply comment periods to all of those 14 petitions are long
past. ARRL hasn't started yet.

Would you like a petition of yours to be buried in that
noise level?

What noise level? Right now there are no petitions/RMs/NPRMs on amateur license
requirement changes out there. Yours would have the comment stage to itself
right now.

Soon ARRL will have its board meeting, and then there will probably be a
proposal that will gather all kinds of comments. Obviously you don't want to
compete with that!

Timing, Jim, is EVERYTHING, and introducing another petition
at this time would NOT be a way of gaining any significant mindshare from
the rulemakers.

Of course! But if you wait too long, the opportunity may be lost. Considering
the way FCC tossed out 14 RM numbers in two batches of seven, if you wait you
may find your proposal batched with ARRL's. If you wait too long, FCC could
move on to the NPRM process before you ever get the petition sent in.

Happy Y3K,

And looking forward to Y4K

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

(snip) Even sense 3 would be a
requirement as when one is given an
assignment, you are supposed to
carry that assigment. It is not just a
suggestion or desireable activity. If
a person or group does not carry
through on an assignment, then that
assignment is given to a group who
will.


Dee, I've repeatedly explained to you what was meant by the word mandate.
Nothing is required or mandatory in the context used. Likewise, without a
stated obligation, there is nothing required or mandatory in giving an
assignment or task to someone (or in giving authorization to someone). If
you still cannot understand this, I suggest you look carefully at the words
"mandate," "assigns," "authorization," and so on, including the synonyms. I
have nothing more to say on the matter.


I repeat, Part 97 does NOT mandate
in any way shape or form that amateurs
participate in public service.


Sorry, but public service is at the very heart of the basic and purpose of
the Amateur Radio Service (as described in 97.1). And, while there is
nothing mandatory about it, the mandate (authorization) to do so still
remains. Likewise, I have nothing more to say on this matter.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dee D. Flint wrote:

Since no one is prohibited from doing
public service, no authorization is
needed. (snip)


To do the types of public service we're authorized to do (MARS, RACES, and
so on), authorization is required.

Sec. 97.407
(a) No station may transmit in RACES
unless it is an FCC-licensed primary,
club, or military recreation station and
it is certified by a civil defense organization
as registered with that organization, or it
is an FCC-licensed RACES station. (snip)

Care to show me where Part 95 authorizes CB'ers to operate a station at
all similar to a RACES station? What about a MARS station? What about
operations serving government agencies and others? In fact, show me where
Part 95 authorizes any activity beyond the recreational use of those
frequencies.


(snip) It is a recognition of what we
do and the value of what we do. It is
a good and solid justification to use
for the continued existence of amateur
radio. Nothing more.


Sadly, far too many in Amateur Radio today have that attitude towards
public service.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

(snip) Even sense 3 would be a
requirement as when one is given an
assignment, you are supposed to
carry that assigment. It is not just a
suggestion or desireable activity. If
a person or group does not carry
through on an assignment, then that
assignment is given to a group who
will.


Dee, I've repeatedly explained to you what was meant by the word
mandate.
Nothing is required or mandatory in the context used. Likewise, without a
stated obligation, there is nothing required or mandatory in giving an
assignment or task to someone (or in giving authorization to someone). If
you still cannot understand this, I suggest you look carefully at the
words
"mandate," "assigns," "authorization," and so on, including the synonyms.
I
have nothing more to say on the matter.


I repeat, Part 97 does NOT mandate
in any way shape or form that amateurs
participate in public service.


Sorry, but public service is at the very heart of the basic and purpose
of
the Amateur Radio Service (as described in 97.1). And, while there is
nothing mandatory about it, the mandate (authorization) to do so still
remains. Likewise, I have nothing more to say on this matter.


Again nothing in Part 97 gives amateurs a mandate in any sense of the
meaning of the word. It does NOT in any section of Part 97 authorize us to
do or assign us to do public service. So you remain wrong. I've just
finished reviewing Part 97 and it's not there. In 97.1 it is "recognition
and enhancement of the value..". That is not a mandate, that is not
authorization, that is not an assignment. It is a way of justifying
allowing us to continue to have the frequencies and privileges that we enjoy
but that is not a mandate.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"KØHB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"N2EY" wrote
Which I sense is a process that Hans wants to avoid,
because there are bound to be both
supporting and opposing comments.

Avoid????? What a strange thought process, coming from someone who seems
to
be familiar with my participation here on rrap. Do I appear bashful about
stating my ideas, and avoiding reactions to them?

The field is currently crowded with at least 14 petitions, and ARRL will
likely make it 15. Would you like a petition of yours to be buried in
that
noise level? Timing, Jim, is EVERYTHING, and introducing another petition
at this time would NOT be a way of gaining any significant mindshare from
the rulemakers.

So what is your likly timetable for submission?
After an ARRL submission?
If yes, how soon after?

There is a risk of submitting beyond a point where the FCC has
already digested the 14 or probably will be 15 submissions and
then posts a NPRM. By that time any new proposals aren't
likly to get any attention...IMHO.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"N2EY" wrote

Of course! But if you wait too long, the opportunity may be lost. ......
If you wait too long, FCC could move on to the NPRM process
before you ever get the petition sent in.

Did I miss something? Is this the last NPRM that FCC will issue in Amateur
Radio matters?

The current salad bowl of 14 (15?) petitions is primarily concerned with
Morse testing for HF access. I've already commented on that matter.

The changes I'd like to see in the Amateur Radio service are only mildly
concerned with Morse Code, but primarily concerned with the fundamental
licensing structure of our service. I don't want that issue lost in the
cacaphony of noise surrounding the Morse Code testing issue, so if I do
submit a petition it will be timed to avoid being confused as a "Morse Code"
petition.

73, Hans, K0HB

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
k.net...
"Dee D. Flint wrote:

Since no one is prohibited from doing
public service, no authorization is
needed. (snip)


To do the types of public service we're authorized to do (MARS, RACES,
and
so on), authorization is required.

Sec. 97.407
(a) No station may transmit in RACES
unless it is an FCC-licensed primary,
club, or military recreation station and
it is certified by a civil defense organization
as registered with that organization, or it
is an FCC-licensed RACES station. (snip)

Care to show me where Part 95 authorizes CB'ers to operate a station at
all similar to a RACES station? What about a MARS station? What about
operations serving government agencies and others? In fact, show me where
Part 95 authorizes any activity beyond the recreational use of those
frequencies.



That is an authorization to operate on those frequencies and an
authorization to operate the station not an authorization to do public
service. There is a difference. And to do MARS or CAP, it is not the FCC
that authorizes you but other agencies and services. But I repeat that is
authorization to use the frequencies not authorization to do public service.
RACES is the same way. You have to be authorized for RACES operation but
that is not the same as authorizing one to do public service. RACES is a
very specific organization with very specific goals and tasks.

You do not and never have needed an authorization to do public service.
Where in the rules does it say that I need the FCC's authorization to do
communications at a walk-a-thon? Where in the rules does it state that I
need FCC's authorization to be part of the team that deployed here in the
Michigan area during the August power blackout? Where in the rules does it
say that I need the FCC's authorization to join ARES. Nowhere. The list
could go on and on.


(snip) It is a recognition of what we
do and the value of what we do. It is
a good and solid justification to use
for the continued existence of amateur
radio. Nothing more.


Sadly, far too many in Amateur Radio today have that attitude towards
public service.

Most of do follow the personal commitment to participate in public service
since it is not only a long and time honored tradition but the right thing
to do. That does not change the fact that there is no mandate to do so.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE