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December 24th 03, 12:56 AM

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

As a single "authoritative voice," a New England membership
group DEFINES everything in amateurism for all amateurs. No
bickering, no dissension, no arguing. All do as They say.
No problems. Everyone happy in Nirvana.

Which group and which magazine? ham radio and 73 magazines were New
England based, but they're both defunct.

Your description of a membership organization that does not tolerate
dissent sounds exactly like NoCode International. Right in their bylaws it

says that any member who publicly disagrees with their stated position on
code testing is subject to expulsion. They also require that all members
agree to their prime directive goal as a condition of membership. No one
who disagrees with their core policy can be a member of NoCode
International.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just stating facts.

And now some puzzle pieces fit together. I can now reconcile Carl's
vision of how leaders are supposed to lead and his organization. Strong
leadership, independent from member opinion, and if you don't like it,
you're out.

Jimmie isn't stating any "facts."

"Of whom are you speaking, old man?"

Right in NCI's bylaws it says that any member who publicly disagrees with their
stated position on code testing is subject to expulsion.

Fact or fiction?

They also require that all members agree to their prime directive goal as a
condition of membership.

Fact or fiction?

No one who disagrees with their core policy can be a member of NoCode
International.

Fact or fiction?

He is simply manufacturing an
argument for the sake of something to argue about. SOP for Jimmie.

"I tell it like it is. You are just another arrogant control-freak wanting
others to be subservient to your viewpoints. You can't accept a damn thing if
it isn't in line with your holy opinions."

[he seems to need something, anything, to argue about every day]

"Reality points to the fact that you CANNOT accept any opinions contrary to
your own with grace or gentle manner...you constantly, belligerently go after
any person who can stand up to you and show where your ideas aren't valid."

No Code International is most of all a political special interest group.
It asks for no dues, does not demand a license of any kind in order
to belong.

But it does require absolute allegiance to its prime directive of eliminating
all code testing. No disagreement or dissent allowed, under penalty of
expulsion.

Unlike the ARRL...which IS a dues-asking, amateur license required,
membership organization and political special interest group and a
publishing business, NCI does not pretend to represent "all" amateurs.

NCI says that it knows what is best for the future of amateur radio.

ARRL pretends to "represent all amateurs"

Where does it claim that? Show us an exact quote.

yet they still haven't
gotten close to a majority of all licensed U.S. amateurs to belong
to them. They've not been able to do that for years past.

The exact size of either organization is unknown, but from all davailable data
it is clear that ARRL, despite dues and annual renewals, is at least 30 times
the size of NCI.

ARRL accepts for membership those who disagree with and want to change their
policies. NCI does not.

There has been an amateur license available in the USA without any code test
for almost 13 years now. ARRL membership voting rights are the same regardless
of license class.

ARRL refuses to take a stand on code testing in the USA yet the
International Amateur Radio Union long ago came out for eliminating
the code test internationally.

"Strange words. According to the FCC, not to mention a couple of Acts of
Congress (one in 1934, another in 1996), only the FCC created the class of the
(no-code-test) Technician license. Not the US Congress. Not the ITU."

Once that happens, NCI has stated
that it will dissolve, cease to exist as a special interest entity.

Perhaps it will, perhaps it won't.

It seems you want ARRL to dissolve, cease to exist. You accept the organization
that does not allow dissent, and reject the organization that accepts and
allows dissent. Why?

NCI is a very small group,

What is its exact membership?

has no law firm on retainer in DC,

"Oh, my, were you admitted to a bar this afternoon and thought you had become a
legal beagle? Arf, arf?"

nor
does it have another group on retainer to lobby the FCC.

Why would that be needed for a single issue?

ARRL does.
NCI directors get out and personally lobby for action on elimination
of code testing, including all the way to Geneva and WRC-03...and
not on a multi-million annual budget available to the ARRL.

WK3C was at Geneva for reasons other than S25.5. His way was paid for by his
employer. He has stated that right here in this newsgroup. He did not go on his
own nickel, or NCI's.

"I'd like to see YOU address the FCC in the same manner as you address others."

"When I see "cogent debate" from yourself, sans the snarly sarcasm...from
yourself, I'll be more than happy to do REAL debate with you.....

You can't do it. Have never done it."

You get one guess who wrote the wors in quotes.

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