In article ,
(William) writes:

Steve, Dave, Bruce, Larry, Kelly, and Dick represented the very worst
in the ARS via their RRAP postings. They thought they meant well, for
the good of all involved, but it eventually evolved into war crimes.
Some people just don't know when to quit. Meanwhile, Jim is like the
benevolent senior looking on as the thugs committed atrocities, but
had "no opinion."

Please don't judge the rest of us by Steve's actions or even his seven
hostile actions (of self abuse).

I don't. :-)

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.

Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Nursie hasn't produced even ONE photo of his described duty with
the 3rd Marine Division.

I've never described any duty with 3rdMARDIV. I was never a part of
3rdMARDIV. Never said I was.

3rd Marine Division is based on Okinawa. You said you were there.

OK, so we've established you were never on Okinawa.

Lennie....I was ALWAYS an airwinger in the USMC.

Now...GO BACK and do some MORE websurfing and see if your immense
websurfing talents can figure out how I was on Okinawa and NOT a part of 3rd
MARDIV.

Sheeeeeesh....what an idiot.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 10:25 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(William) writes:

Steve, Dave, Bruce, Larry, Kelly, and Dick represented the very worst
in the ARS via their RRAP postings. They thought they meant well, for
the good of all involved, but it eventually evolved into war crimes.
Some people just don't know when to quit. Meanwhile, Jim is like the
benevolent senior looking on as the thugs committed atrocities, but
had "no opinion."

Please don't judge the rest of us by Steve's actions or even his seven
hostile actions (of self abuse).

I don't.

Good for you, Lennie.

Minus the Amateur license, you're in the same pile.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (William)
Date: 5/26/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Robert asks you a question about Amateurs operating on military
frequencies for military purposes and YOU respond with some assinine
statement
about "most municipal radio operators" wearing police uniforms.

So?

"So?", indeed.

That in ITSELF is completely foolish since police departments are only
a
fractional part of most municipal payrolls. There's the Fire Department,
EMS,
Department of Sanitation, the utilities departments, roads and highways,
etc...all of whom hav SOME sort of radio service that they use.

Does it make them Policemen? Does it make them MARS Ops?

Does it make any difference to you that youw ere AGAIN shown to have been
wrong?

Does it make any difference to you that it's an easy thing to do?

Remember, Brain, YOU are the one who set the "precedent" that if there
is
even ONE example to the contrary, you have been proven WRONG.

I kindly direct you to the word, "most" in my response.

I see that.

That's what's wrong, PuppetBoy.

The police department does NOT constitute the "most" of any municipal pool
of employees. Even in the smallest towns that I have lived in the police force
represented, at the MOST, 1/4th of the municipal payroll.

YOU said that MOST "municipal radio operators (wore) police uniforms".

That is wrong. Even in YOUR community.

Would you say that "most" means, "is" or "equal to?"

Now...HOW did you go from discussing operating on military frequencies
to
"municipal radio operators"...?!?!

How did you go from MARS to Amateur Radio?

MARS is dependent upon Amateur Radio. No Amatuer Radio = No MARS.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (William)
Date: 5/26/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Robert asks you a question about Amateurs operating on military
frequencies for military purposes and YOU respond with some assinine
statement
about "most municipal radio operators" wearing police uniforms.

So?

"So?", indeed.

That in ITSELF is completely foolish since police departments are
only
a
fractional part of most municipal payrolls. There's the Fire Department,
EMS,
Department of Sanitation, the utilities departments, roads and highways,
etc...all of whom hav SOME sort of radio service that they use.

Does it make them Policemen? Does it make them MARS Ops?

Does it make any difference to you that youw ere AGAIN shown to have
been
wrong?

Does it make any difference to you that it's an easy thing to do?

Remember, Brain, YOU are the one who set the "precedent" that if
there
is
even ONE example to the contrary, you have been proven WRONG.

I kindly direct you to the word, "most" in my response.

I see that.

That's what's wrong, PuppetBoy.

The police department does NOT constitute the "most" of any municipal
pool
of employees. Even in the smallest towns that I have lived in the police
force
represented, at the MOST, 1/4th of the municipal payroll.

YOU said that MOST "municipal radio operators (wore) police uniforms".

That is wrong. Even in YOUR community.

Would you say that "most" means, "is" or "equal to?"

Now...HOW did you go from discussing operating on military frequencies
to
"municipal radio operators"...?!?!

How did you go from MARS to Amateur Radio?

MARS is dependent upon Amateur Radio. No Amatuer Radio = No MARS.

TRY to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

FCC doesn't define MARS. ARRL doesn't define MARS.

Department of Defense Directive defines MARS.

MARS is a MILITARY system.

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Nursie hasn't produced even ONE photo of his described duty with
the 3rd Marine Division.

I've never described any duty with 3rdMARDIV. I was never a part of
3rdMARDIV. Never said I was.

3rd Marine Division is based on Okinawa. You said you were there.

OK, so we've established you were never on Okinawa.

Lennie....I was ALWAYS an airwinger in the USMC.

Now...GO BACK and do some MORE websurfing and see if your immense
websurfing talents can figure out how I was on Okinawa and NOT a part of 3rd
MARDIV.

Sheeeeeesh....what an idiot.

Nursie's self-proclaimed "career" is NOT the SUBJECT.

It is irrelevant since none of it involved radio communications.

It is as "relevant" as those fictional "hostile actions." :-)

Try to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.

Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

Nursie, satellites don't speak...they use TELEMETRY to "tell" the
ground their status.

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.

TRY to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

FCC doesn't define MARS. ARRL doesn't define MARS.

Department of Defense Directive defines MARS.

MARS is a MILITARY system.

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Nursie hasn't produced even ONE photo of his described duty with
the 3rd Marine Division.

I've never described any duty with 3rdMARDIV. I was never a part of
3rdMARDIV. Never said I was.

3rd Marine Division is based on Okinawa. You said you were there.

OK, so we've established you were never on Okinawa.

Lennie....I was ALWAYS an airwinger in the USMC.

Now...GO BACK and do some MORE websurfing and see if your immense
websurfing talents can figure out how I was on Okinawa and NOT a part of 3rd
MARDIV.

Sheeeeeesh....what an idiot.

Nursie's self-proclaimed "career" is NOT the SUBJECT.

But you MADE it the "SUBJECT", Lennie, right up until THIS post, in which
it's obvious that you once again found oput that you DON'T have all the facts
and you DON'T know what you are talking about.

Nice try to shift the focus off of your faux pas.

Caught again.

It is irrelevant since none of it involved radio communications.

You're right, Lennie...It's NOT "relevant"...But YOU brought it up and YOU
tried to use it against me.

You failed.

But what you got was your tail stepped on...And YOU did the stepping.

That HAD to hurt.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was
determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.

Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

Nursie, satellites don't speak...they use TELEMETRY to "tell" the
ground their status.

Once again the "radio professional" tries to worm his way out of the
corner that he painted himself into...

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.

TRY to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

Lennie...YOU are the one who said it was necessary to learn Morse Code in
order to use SSB.

You were, AGAIN, porven wrong.

Not that it was hard to do....

MARS is a MILITARY system.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (William)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:31 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Robert asks you a question about Amateurs operating on military
frequencies for military purposes and YOU respond with some assinine
statement
about "most municipal radio operators" wearing police uniforms.

So?

"So?", indeed.

That in ITSELF is completely foolish since police departments are
only
a
fractional part of most municipal payrolls. There's the Fire
Department,
EMS,
Department of Sanitation, the utilities departments, roads and highways,
etc...all of whom hav SOME sort of radio service that they use.

Does it make them Policemen? Does it make them MARS Ops?

Does it make any difference to you that youw ere AGAIN shown to have
been
wrong?

Does it make any difference to you that it's an easy thing to do?

Does it make them Policemen? Does it make them MARS Ops?

"Sorry Hans, Dispatcher IS MARS."

Hi hi!

"Hi hi" indeed, Brain.

I am sure you hear quite a bit of laughter.

Remember, Brain, YOU are the one who set the "precedent" that if
there
is
even ONE example to the contrary, you have been proven WRONG.

I kindly direct you to the word, "most" in my response.

I see that.

That's what's wrong, PuppetBoy.

No. It is not. It is not all inclusive, such as your use of the word
"IS."

OK, Brain.

If you insist.

The police department does NOT constitute the "most" of any municipal
pool
of employees. Even in the smallest towns that I have lived in the police
force
represented, at the MOST, 1/4th of the municipal payroll.

Oh, I see what you're desperately trying to do.

You're including all of the non-radio users in your computation in an
attempt to find a leg to stand on.

Grasping, grasping; and still sliding downward.

Brain....YOU said that "most" MUNICIPAL radio operators wore police
uniforms.

It's not me doing the grasping.

Now...Try again, PuppetBoy. Your mentor is watching.

YOU said that MOST "municipal radio operators (wore) police uniforms".

That is wrong. Even in YOUR community.

No, it isn't. We're kind of heavy on LE here.

Yes, It it.

But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to know your community is "kind
of heavy on LE"...considering who lives there.

Would you say that "most" means, "is" or "equal to?"

Now...HOW did you go from discussing operating on military
frequencies
to
"municipal radio operators"...?!?!

How did you go from MARS to Amateur Radio?

MARS is dependent upon Amateur Radio. No Amatuer Radio = No MARS.

Sure they are. They use up all them amateur frequencies and rely upon
Riley for enforcement. Subject to Part 97. Hi hi!

"Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio."

Brian..TRY and get ONE thing right today, OK...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was
determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.

Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

Nursie, satellites don't speak...they use TELEMETRY to "tell" the
ground their status.

Once again the "radio professional" tries to worm his way out of the
corner that he painted himself into...

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

It is not. As per DoD Directive 4650.2 (26 Jan 98) -

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.

TRY to stay focussed on the SUBJECT.

Lennie...YOU are the one who said it was necessary to learn Morse Code
in order to use SSB.

You were, AGAIN, porven wrong.

Not that it was hard to do....

MARS is a MILITARY system.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

It is not. As per DoD Directive 4650.2 (26 Jan 98) -

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Nursie hasn't produced even ONE photo of his described duty with
the 3rd Marine Division.

I've never described any duty with 3rdMARDIV. I was never a part of
3rdMARDIV. Never said I was.

3rd Marine Division is based on Okinawa. You said you were there.

OK, so we've established you were never on Okinawa.

Lennie....I was ALWAYS an airwinger in the USMC.

Now...GO BACK and do some MORE websurfing and see if your immense
websurfing talents can figure out how I was on Okinawa and NOT a part of
3rd
MARDIV.

Sheeeeeesh....what an idiot.

Nursie's self-proclaimed "career" is NOT the SUBJECT.

But you MADE it the "SUBJECT", Lennie, right up until THIS post, in which
it's obvious that you once again found oput that you DON'T have all the facts
and you DON'T know what you are talking about.

Nice try to shift the focus off of your faux pas.

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

It is not. As per DoD Directive 4650.2 (26 Jan 98) -

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

Caught again.

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

It is not. As per DoD Directive 4650.2 (26 Jan 98) -

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).


You failed.

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

It is not. As per DoD Directive 4650.2 (26 Jan 98) -

The "M" in MARS = MILITARY

The "A" in MARS = AFFILIATE

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).


But what you got was your tail stepped on...And YOU did the stepping.

That HAD to hurt.

No "hurt." MARS is NOT amateur radio.

MARS exists because the DoD says it does.

The FCC does not cause MARS to exist. The ARRL does not
cause MARS to exist.

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 10:25 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(William) writes:

Steve, Dave, Bruce, Larry, Kelly, and Dick represented the very worst
in the ARS via their RRAP postings. They thought they meant well, for
the good of all involved, but it eventually evolved into war crimes.
Some people just don't know when to quit. Meanwhile, Jim is like the
benevolent senior looking on as the thugs committed atrocities, but
had "no opinion."

Please don't judge the rest of us by Steve's actions or even his seven
hostile actions (of self abuse).

I don't.

Good for you, Lennie.

Minus the Amateur license, you're in the same pile.

Steve, K4YZ

Wow Len, I didn't know that you were involved in Seven Hostile Actions
(of self abuse).

Better extract yourself from that pile.

I thought about putting that pile on my lawn to make the grass
grow better.

It didn't. A little test section just died off. :-(

We will never hear the where or when of all those "hostile actions."

They never happened...except on his Fantasy Island.

He might not have a Tatoo either...

LHA / WMD

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:


Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/25/2004 6:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But only to those capable of rational thought. Fantasy fliers with
too much P-51 time in their frequency flyer program aren't capable
of rational thought.

P-51's are great, but not my idea of a "fantasy flight".

REAL private pilots are acquainted with the term "P-51 time." That's
a nastyphrase of those private pilots who LIE in their log-books
by writing in more time than they really have...using a Parker 51
pen.

Well, in as much as I know what would happen to me if it was determined
that I had falsified my logbook, I've never made an entry that wasn't
preceeded by an actual flight or logable training with a CFI or CGI.

Riiiiiight...just like you did all that "SSB" in VHF and UHF ham
bands.


Lennie...WHAT is the prefered voice mode for most of the satellites?

And what mode is prevelent below 144.400?

Especially between 144.100 and 144.250?

No experience = flawed opinions.


SSB is one of the modes we see on VHF and above. It's not used as often
as say, FM, but used nonetheless. A fellow in our club put on a nice
Powerpoint presentation about his satellite ops a couple months ago. On
one of the slides, we listened to a recording of a SSB contact he had
with another ham via satellite.

There is plenty of 2 meter SSB also. I've listened to it at our
mountaintop shack.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Nursie hasn't produced even ONE photo of his described duty with
the 3rd Marine Division.

I've never described any duty with 3rdMARDIV. I was never a part
of
3rdMARDIV. Never said I was.

3rd Marine Division is based on Okinawa. You said you were there.

OK, so we've established you were never on Okinawa.

Lennie....I was ALWAYS an airwinger in the USMC.

Now...GO BACK and do some MORE websurfing and see if your immense
websurfing talents can figure out how I was on Okinawa and NOT a part of
3rd
MARDIV.

Sheeeeeesh....what an idiot.

Nursie's self-proclaimed "career" is NOT the SUBJECT.

But you MADE it the "SUBJECT", Lennie, right up until THIS post, in
which
it's obvious that you once again found oput that you DON'T have all the
facts
and you DON'T know what you are talking about.

Nice try to shift the focus off of your faux pas.

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

Uh huh...

Got Willie caught under the rocking chair again, and it hurt.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

Your strict dependence upon published directives would have made you very
popular in the Third Reich, Lennie, but it's no good here.

Now...YOU brought up my USMC service and made insinuating comments
vis-a-vis same. I gave you MORE than enough information on now to verify that
which YOU claim is UNverified.

So NOW you're ducking out from acknowedging the FACTS.

Putz, liar AND coward ! ! ! !

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

Amateur Radio is the entity with which the MILITARY is AFFILIATED with...

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

Amateur Radio is the entity with which the MILITARY is AFFILIATED
with...

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Your intelligence is "THAT simple." :-)

If MARS required amateur radio to exist, then it would not need the
military documents creating it and regulating it.

The FCC doesn't define MARS or regulate MARS or anything else
about MARS.

MARS is MILITARY. The Department of Defense has explained it.

Have you found out what an AN/FRC-93 is yet?

[we know you haven't seen, let alone read DoD Directive 4650.2,
much less NTP 8(C)...quit trying to bluff your way out of this]

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

[except in your imagination...]

Dismissed.




LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Nursie, off work and with too much caffeine) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/27/2004 7:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Nursie hasn't produced even ONE photo of his described duty with
the 3rd Marine Division.

I've never described any duty with 3rdMARDIV. I was never a part
of
3rdMARDIV. Never said I was.

3rd Marine Division is based on Okinawa. You said you were there.

OK, so we've established you were never on Okinawa.

Lennie....I was ALWAYS an airwinger in the USMC.

Now...GO BACK and do some MORE websurfing and see if your immense
websurfing talents can figure out how I was on Okinawa and NOT a part of
3rd
MARDIV.

Sheeeeeesh....what an idiot.

Nursie's self-proclaimed "career" is NOT the SUBJECT.

But you MADE it the "SUBJECT", Lennie, right up until THIS post, in
which
it's obvious that you once again found oput that you DON'T have all the
facts
and you DON'T know what you are talking about.

Nice try to shift the focus off of your faux pas.

The SUBJECT is the claim that "MARS is amateur radio.

Uh huh...

That's what the SUBJECT line is...

Got Willie caught under the rocking chair again, and it hurt.

Always a problem to the well-endowed...

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

Your strict dependence upon published directives would have made you very
popular in the Third Reich, Lennie, but it's no good here.

Okay, so explain the 35 print pages required by Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R.

Nowhere in those printed - and very official - U.S. amateur radio
regulations
is MARS (Military Affiliate Radio System) defined by the FCC.

MARS isn't authorized to use amateur radio frequencies.

The "M" in MARS stands for MILITARY.

MARS exists through DoD Directive 4650.2 with particular military
service branch regulations AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN NTP8(C).

MARS nets and stations can communicate directly with other
MARS stations and with federal authorities using military radio
equipment and military radio personnel.

Without Directive 4650.2 there would be NO MARS.

MARS is NOT amateur radio.


Now...YOU brought up my USMC service and made insinuating comments
vis-a-vis same. I gave you MORE than enough information on now to verify that
which YOU claim is UNverified.

No. Tell us all about those "hostile action" incidents, the where
and when.

No one can "verify" things that don't exist. Outside of your
imagination, that is... :-)

So NOW you're ducking out from acknowedging the FACTS.

"Facts?" Fantasy facts?

Of course. If you imagined it, it HAPPENED! :-)


Putz, liar AND coward ! ! ! !

Tsk, tsk, tsk... still acting the schoolyard bully all the way to
your mid-life crisis...:-)

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 3:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 1:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


MARS is NOT amateur radio.

That is repeated in AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN-USMC Communications
Instruction NTP8 (C).

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

Amateur Radio is the entity with which the MILITARY is AFFILIATED
with...

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Your intelligence is "THAT simple."

If MARS required amateur radio to exist, then it would not need the
military documents creating it and regulating it.

Sure it would.

Any authorized interaction between the Armed Forces and any civilian
entity requires that it be authorized by appropriate headquarters. The Red
Cross, Civil Air Patrol, US Coast Guard Auxiliary, etc etc are "civilian"
organizations, yet there are MILITARY regulations that enable interaction
between the Armed Forces and those entities.

Are you telling me that those organizations wouldn't exist without a
"military document creating and regulating it"...?!?!

I understand that YOUR point is that MARS is a program promulgated BY the
Armed Forces.

The FACTS are that MARS needs those civilian operators to make the program
work.

The FACTS are that almost all of the persons running the program are NOT
military personnel and are NOT on the payroll of DoD to be there.

The FCC doesn't define MARS or regulate MARS or anything else
about MARS.

It doesn't have to.

MARS is MILITARY. The Department of Defense has explained it.

Sure it is.

And without licensed Amateur Radio operators to "staff" the program with,
it wouldn't be able to function. It would be "defunct".

Have you found out what an AN/FRC-93 is yet?

Have you been issued an NNN0xxx/T callsign yet?

How about a KG6xxx callsign?

How does it pertain to Amateur Radio and it's interaction with the MARS
program...???

Why do you find it necessary to try and redirect when you know you are in
a corner?

[we know you haven't seen, let alone read DoD Directive 4650.2,
much less NTP 8(C)...quit trying to bluff your way out of this]

I am not trying to "bluff" my way "out" of anything, Sir Scumbag.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

[except in your imagination...]

Dismissed.

Not by a documented pathological liar like you, Lennie. Not in this life
or forum, nor any other.

Now...How's that MARS application coming?

Passed that "Extra Lite" out of the box yet?

How about that Part 15-legal station you were going to put on 20 meters?

Or perhaps you'd like to regale us with more of your exploits as a student
pilot in the 50's? You certainly got your tailed rocked on when you tried ot
demonstrate your knowledge about current NAVAID systems and CAP's active
aircraft inventory, yet you continue to denigrate my licensure as a pilot.
That's available on the Internet.

Then we can move along to your investigation as to wheter or not my
"service claims" are valid or not. You've certainly been provided more than
enough information to get THAT right by now. That's available on the
Internet, too.

And while you're at it, please tell us once again how many pieces of
traffic YOU were directly responsible for handling in 1953 while assigned as a
rear area radio clerk? "1.2 million", was it...?!?!?

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 3:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

MARS exists through DoD Directive 4650.2 with particular military
service branch regulations AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN NTP8(C).

MARS nets and stations can communicate directly with other
MARS stations and with federal authorities using military radio
equipment and military radio personnel.

Without Directive 4650.2 there would be NO MARS.

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

Now...YOU brought up my USMC service and made insinuating comments
vis-a-vis same. I gave you MORE than enough information on now to verify
that
which YOU claim is UNverified.

No. Tell us all about those "hostile action" incidents, the where
and when.

No one can "verify" things that don't exist. Outside of your
imagination, that is.

Uh uh, Lennie!

YOU said my very service in the USMC was bogus.

Still waiting for you to substantiate THAT claim!

Putz, liar AND coward ! ! ! !

Tsk, tsk, tsk... still acting the schoolyard bully all the way to
your mid-life crisis.

It ain't bullying if it's true.

You are a putz, you are a liar, and you ARE a coward.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Then we can move along to your investigation as to wheter or not my
"service claims" are valid or not. You've certainly been provided more than
enough information to get THAT right by now. That's available on the
Internet, too.

The United States government put up a web page referencing
nursie's "military career?!?" [I think not...can't find one]

The Veterans Administration has a web page referencing the
"hero of hostile actions?!?" [I think not...can't find one]

Has ANY government agency put up a web page all about
nursie, the "hero of hostile actions?!?" [I think not...not there]

"Provided more than enough information?" Hardly. We don't
know squat about the date and location of those "hostile
actions."

Lots of bluff and bluster, shouting, hollering, and nursie name-
calling. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

And while you're at it, please tell us once again how many pieces of
traffic YOU were directly responsible for handling in 1953 while assigned as
a rear area radio clerk? "1.2 million", was it...?!?!?

Now, now, you're still doing the personal attack thing. I was never
a "radio clerk." :-)

MOS 281.6, Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Maintenance
Supervisor [the dot-six in that old MOS nomenclature stood for
supervisor]. Also brevet to Fixed Station Operations and Maintenance
Supervisor as a team leader at ADA before the microwave equipment
arrived. The Pacific Stars & Stripes military newspaper checked up
on that when they did an interview on me for their 10 November 2002
edition (in their archives section on the 'web).

ADA relayed about 220 thousand TTY messages a month in 1955.
Since ADA had 36 to 43 transmitters on at any one time, some of
them SSB with 8 to 12 TTY circuits and three transmitters were
doing 4-TTY-channel time-division multiplexing, the total estimate
I wrote long ago is still an estimate based on 9-out-of-12 days at
the station and 8 hour shifts. Any way you slice it, nursie, that's
a LOT of message traffic...and every shift supervisor is responsible
for keeping those messages going out.

Had you ever done any military communications, you would under-
stand that. But, you didn't, so you don't. All you can do is try to
intimidate others, bluff and bluster to make yourself far more
important than you were in real life. Not good, not healthy to do
that, nursie.

But, you can't control yourself, can you? [no emotional stability]
Lack of control is very bad for emergency work.

Memorable. And I'm not refering to Memorial Day.

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 3:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

MARS exists through DoD Directive 4650.2 with particular military
service branch regulations AR 25-6, AFI 33-106, USN NTP8(C).

MARS nets and stations can communicate directly with other
MARS stations and with federal authorities using military radio
equipment and military radio personnel.

Without Directive 4650.2 there would be NO MARS.

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

MARS exists as a MILITARY radio service. It can continue to
do so on its own, without civilian volunteers.

The FCC doesn't define MARS, never has. MARS is MILITARY.

Now...YOU brought up my USMC service and made insinuating comments
vis-a-vis same. I gave you MORE than enough information on now to verify
that
which YOU claim is UNverified.

No. Tell us all about those "hostile action" incidents, the where
and when.

No one can "verify" things that don't exist. Outside of your
imagination, that is.

Uh uh, Lennie!

YOU said my very service in the USMC was bogus.

No. We really don't know what nursie did with any credence.

The "hostile action" brags have never ever been detailed as to
place and date.

Still waiting for you to substantiate THAT claim!

It's not up to me to "verify" YOUR bragging.

You made the "hostile action" claim. YOU reference it.

Putz, liar AND coward ! ! ! !

Tsk, tsk, tsk... still acting the schoolyard bully all the way to
your mid-life crisis.

It ain't bullying if it's true.

Okay, verify, by references and proof, those "hostile actions."

Your imagination doesn't count. [nature abhors a vacuum...]

You really can't verify what you did through any third-party
sources, can you?

All you do is demand others "call up the VA" or some other
bogus source, never supplying any factual data or any
names of associated parties who were also in those
"hostile actions."

All you can do in response is holler and swear at others,
typical bully behavior.

That doesn't work, doesn't stop anyone else from challenging
your brags.

Memorial Day is coming up. Try to remember the where and
when of those "hostile actions" and then state it in here.

Otherwise, retract that brag of "hostile actions." Memorial
Day is for REAL heroes, not the big-mouth bass jumping for
attention in this little pond.


You are a putz, you are a liar, and you ARE a coward.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. More hollering and swearing. Wipe off your
monitor, the saliva is running down the faceplate. What
will Mrs. Nursie think?

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/29/2004 12:07 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Then we can move along to your investigation as to wheter or not my
"service claims" are valid or not. You've certainly been provided more than
enough information to get THAT right by now. That's available on the
Internet, too.

The United States government put up a web page referencing
nursie's "military career?!?" [I think not...can't find one]

The Veterans Administration has a web page referencing the
"hero of hostile actions?!?" [I think not...can't find one]

Has ANY government agency put up a web page all about
nursie, the "hero of hostile actions?!?" [I think not...not there]

"Provided more than enough information?" Hardly. We don't
know squat about the date and location of those "hostile
actions."

Lots of bluff and bluster, shouting, hollering, and nursie name-
calling. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

The bluffing, bluster, shouting and hollering are yours, Lennie.

Guess you'd rather get your nose rubbed in your weakness and inability to
confirm my having served in the Armed Forces than to acutally do the research
and find out that you were, once again, proven wrong.

And while you're at it, please tell us once again how many pieces of
traffic YOU were directly responsible for handling in 1953 while assigned as
a rear area radio clerk? "1.2 million", was it...?!?!?

Now, now, you're still doing the personal attack thing. I was never
a "radio clerk."

Sure you were.

You claimed that YOU were responsible for handling "1.2 million" pieces of
traffic during your tenure at ADA.

Technicians and maintenence personnel do not handle traffic. They fix the
boxes that the radio clerks use to pass the traffic.

MOS 281.6, Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Maintenance...(SNIP)

YaddaYaddaYadda.

If YOU handled the traffic, then you are misleading us as to what your
real MOS was.

Supervisor [the dot-six in that old MOS nomenclature stood for
supervisor].....(SNIP TO)

I wrote long ago is still an estimate based on 9-out-of-12 days at
the station and 8 hour shifts. Any way you slice it, nursie, that's
a LOT of message traffic...and every shift supervisor is responsible
for keeping those messages going out.

Still doesn't wash Lennie.

You were either responsible for the maintenence of the equipment or you
were responsible for the operation of it, ie: traffic handling.

Had you ever done any military communications, you would under-
stand that. But, you didn't, so you don't.

I did and I do.

You were either a radio clerk or a technician...now which was it?

All you can do is try to
intimidate others, bluff and bluster to make yourself far more
important than you were in real life. Not good, not healthy to do
that, nursie.

Hey, Lennie...YOU set the precedent, fella! That paragraph RIGHT THERE
sums up your entire RRAP career.

But, you can't control yourself, can you? [no emotional stability]
Lack of control is very bad for emergency work.

Memorable. And I'm not refering to Memorial Day.

What's memorable is your lack of ability to follow your own mantra,
Lennie.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/29/2004 12:07 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

MARS exists as a MILITARY radio service. It can continue to
do so on its own, without civilian volunteers.

Oh...Really?

Lennie, how many MARSGRAMS have you ever delivered?

How many phonepatches have you conducted for AFLOAT units?

How many MARSGRAMS have you initiated?

I ask because I had the opportunity to handle a LOT of MARSGRAMS over the
years, and almost every one I sent wound up being delivered by a volunteer
member. I know this since most of the ones I ever sent usually generated a
reply message...And the initiating station was almost always an individual's
station.

Also, I had the opportunity to be on the AFLOAT end of the patches. Don't
suppose you'd care to guess who handled the Stateside end of the patches, would
you?

The FCC doesn't define MARS, never has. MARS is MILITARY.

I am still trying to figure out why you keep trying to reference the FCC
when I've never said WHAT the FCC's "definition" is.

Still waiting for you to substantiate THAT claim!

It's not up to me to "verify" YOUR bragging.

You made the "hostile action" claim. YOU reference it.

Who's talking about "hostile action", Lennie...?!?! YOU said that I never
served PERIOD. That was only a few days ago.

Afterall I WAS able to "substantiate" some of YOUR claims about your
"CV"...it didn't take much...Your windiness and brogaddacio led me to the
doorstep of people I knew and who could verify your claims.

It wasn't a pretty picture.

All you do is demand others "call up the VA" or some other
bogus source, never supplying any factual data or any
names of associated parties who were also in those
"hostile actions."

The VA is a bogus source for verifying past military service...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! !

WHOOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!

Memorial Day is coming up. Try to remember the where and
when of those "hostile actions" and then state it in here.

Otherwise, retract that brag of "hostile actions." Memorial
Day is for REAL heroes, not the big-mouth bass jumping for
attention in this little pond.

I do remember who that day is for, Lennie.

It's NOT for rear-area radio clerks who tried to embellish thier one-tour
Army hitch on the sacrifices of men who died three years before you were even
in Boot Camp.

Specifically one Leonard H. Anderson.

You are a putz, you are a liar, and you ARE a coward.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. More hollering and swearing. Wipe off your
monitor, the saliva is running down the faceplate. What
will Mrs. Nursie think?

Mrs Nursie would probably tolerate your charades even less than I.

Steve, K4YZ

On 28 May 2004 21:38:13 GMT, (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 3:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

snip

The FACTS are that MARS needs those civilian operators to make the program
work.

For interest's sake, I did a bit of research on the Web, and found the
following information on the home page for the US Military Alliliate
Radio System:

http://www.asc.army.mil/mars/default.htm

******

"MARS is a Department of Defense sponsored program, established as a
separately managed and operated program by the Army, Navy, and Air
Force. The program consists of licensed amateur radio operators who
are interested in military communications on a local, national, and
international basis as an adjunct to normal communications."

"MARS has a long and proud history of providing world-wide auxiliary
emergency communications during times of need. The combined three
service MARS programs (Army, Air Force, and Navy-Marine Corps)
volunteer force of over 5,000 dedicated and skilled amateur radio
operators is the backbone of the MARS program. The benefit of MARS
membership is enjoying an amateur radio hobby through the
ever-expanding horizon of MARS. Our affiliate members' continued
unselfish support of our mission keeps Army MARS Proud, Professional,
and Ready."

Note the phrase "The program consists of licensed Amateur Radio
Operators" above.


******

"How to Join Army MARS

Eligibility

The applicant must -

Be 17 years of age or older. (Signature of parent or legal guardian is
required when an applicant is under 18 years of age.)
Be a United States Citizen or resident alien. (Possess a valid amateur
radio license issued by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) or
other competent U.S. Authority.)
Possess a station capable of operating on MARS VHF and/or HF
frequencies.
Agree to operate a minimum of 12 hours per calendar quarter with 6
hours being on VHF and or HF networks."

Note again the requiremant for participants to be licensed US radio
amateurs.

******

"Benefits of Membership

Add to the enjoyment of your amateur radio hobby through the expanded
horizon of MARS.

Join a group of dedicated fellow radio amateurs participating in
meaningful public service.

Become part of the Army, Navy-Marine Corps, or Air Force MARS
worldwide communications system. There are Army MARS stations in
Japan, Korea, the Trust Territories, Hawaii, the Virgin Islands,
Puerto Rico, Central America, Alaska, Germany, Africa, and the
continental United States.

Increase your communications skills and capabilities. Selected
correspondence courses in communications - electronics subjects are
available free to MARS members from their respective affiliated
service after completion of six months active membership. Qualified
Army MARS members may apply for such courses at the Army
Correspondence Course Program web site.

Operate on specially assigned military radio frequencies in voice,
teletype, and packet modes of communications."

Once again, note the references to the amateur radio hobby above.

******

From these paragraphs, and the remainder of valuable information on
this web site, I'd conclude that the MARS program relies upon the
Amateur community to make it work, as it is currently defined.
Without amateur operators, the MARS program would have to affiliated
with some other communications group to carry their traffic.

This thread is, however, hopelessly mired in a battle over semantics.

Is MARS amateur radio? Well, no, No more so than Amateur Radio is
MARS. It is a military radio service, defined and mandated by the
military and operating on military frequencies outside of the Amateur
bands..

But, without amateur operators to affiliate their communications
resources with, the MARS program would not be able to operate as
currnetly defined - it exists as a partnership between the military
operators and their 5,000-plus volunteer Amateur operator
counterparts.

Quite similar to the CFARS program in Canada, and perhaps others
around the world.

Just my $.02

snip

Steve, K4YZ

73, Leo

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: Leo
Date: 5/29/2004 3:50 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But, without amateur operators to affiliate their communications
resources with, the MARS program would not be able to operate as
currnetly defined - it exists as a partnership between the military
operators and their 5,000-plus volunteer Amateur operator
counterparts.

Thanks, Leo...This is what I have been saying.

Billy Booper wants to transleate it literally, and Lennie...Well, Lennie
is Lennie and he STILL hasn't produced anything substantial of an Amateur Radio
"career".

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Leo
writes:

The FACTS are that MARS needs those civilian operators to make the
program work.

Actually, no. :-) See the Army Communicator write-up on "Grecian
Firebolt 2002" at -

www.gordon.army.mil/AC/Wntr02/MARS.htm

Army Communicator is the Signal Center's quarterly magazine,
distributed only to Signal Corps folks but archives are open to the
public on the 'net.

For interest's sake, I did a bit of research on the Web, and found the
following information on the home page for the US Military Alliliate
Radio System:

http://www.asc.army.mil/mars/default.htm

That one is maintained at Fort Huachuca, AZ, the NETCOM Hq
for MARS for the U.S. Army. For the other branches -

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/c...98/d46502p.pdf

for the current (21 Nov 03) issue of Directive 4650.2 from DoD, PDF
version. That Directive spells it out for all U.S. military branches.

http://public.afca.af.mil/LIBRARY/MARS.HTM

for the Scott AFB USAF Communications Agency Hq.

http://www.navymars.org/ for USN-USMC

There's a bunch more, such as a brief mention on the bottom half of
page 128 of "Vietnam studies Communications-Electronics 1962-1970"
monograph by Major General Rienzi at the U.S. Army Center For
Military History (CMH). That shows a photo of an AN/FRC-93 in use
in Vietnam, making a phone patch back to the states. Rienzi says
that 42,000 phone patches a month were being done by MARS
stations in Vietnam at the close of that period. That's an excellent
record and something to be proud of, but it was also over 30 years
ago when the U.S. had about a third of a million military serving in
southeast Asia.

Closer to date, Grecian Firebolt 2002 was an exercise of 600 MARS
stations (all branches of the military) simulating a terrorist attack on
the USA. That is reported to have gone off well in liason with several
civilian emergency services. [Army Communicator issue cited] The
article doesn't specify that civilians were involved although it
mentioned several Guard units (National and Air, not independent
state "guard" units).

The quick timeline of MARS -

1925 AARS or Army Amateur Radio Service organized, small, Army
only, never more than 5600 up to 7 Dec 41.
1941-1946 pause for WW2.
1946 AARS resumes operation.
1948 Reorganization, includes new separate AF, renamed MARS.
1962 USN-USMC joins MARS, all military branches now in MARS.

In the overall U.S. military picture, MARS was never a significant
communications service. It was, in the '65 to '70 period, very good
as a morale-boosting service for servicepeople such as those in
Vietnam (who could get to a 'Nam MARS station...not always
possible). MARS facilities were never required to support, let alone
supplant the very large communications structure of the U.S.
military and most MARS stations used (to be delicate) cast-offs
for their station equipments. The exception was the procurement
of the AN/FRC-93 HF transceiver, the commercial version (full
crystal bank) of the Collins KWM2. [I have the TM on it and can tell
where to get it for free PDF download...even for Canadians... :-) ]

The Army Communicator is a good source of information on U.S.
military land radios and is open to public access. So are older
issues of Signal (monthly) published by AFCEA at that website.
Army Communicator is found at Fort Gordon, GA, website at

http://www.gordon.army.mil/

AFCA (Air Force Communications Agency) has a nice website out
of Scott AFB (near St. Louis, on the Illinois side of the Mississippi).
There's a nice small museum there at the public lobby of AFCA
but their standout is their publications. For an overall history of Air
Force oriented communications, the free download of "From Flares
To Satellites" is most informative, well-written, good illustrations of
past to present. [rather a large download, good for a coffee break
while it rolls in]

Note: At the end of the 1950s, the USAF started phasing into
taking over of land-based HF communications while the US Army
phased slowly into implementing the DSN (Digital Switched
Network) and higher-speed data communications. Army was still
the mainstay of field communications by radio in southeast Asia
from Saigon to all other parts by everything from UHF radio relay
through underwater cable to troposcatter relay for 200 to 300 mile
shoots over all terrain. Army pioneered the communications
satellite use on a 24-hour, multi-channel basis in the mid-60s,
linking southeast Asia with Hawaii. Advancement, breaking new
ground. Things changing, new paradigms in all communications.

Something to remember on our national holiday of Memorial.

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: Leo
Date: 5/29/2004 3:50 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

But, without amateur operators to affiliate their communications
resources with, the MARS program would not be able to operate as
currnetly defined - it exists as a partnership between the military
operators and their 5,000-plus volunteer Amateur operator
counterparts.

Thanks, Leo...This is what I have been saying.

Billy Booper wants to transleate it literally, and Lennie...Well, Lennie
is Lennie and he STILL hasn't produced anything substantial of an Amateur
Radio "career".

"Transleate?!?" :-)

"Career in amateurism" is necessary?!?

Poor nursie, still hurting. Never did work in military communications,
therefore no one else is worth anything... :-)

By Directive, by definition, MARS is MILITARY, not amateur.

MARS can stand on its own, netting with other government radio
services.

Yes, MARS did good for morale using lots of civilian amateur radio
volunteers, doing phone patches from places like Vietnam and
other overseas locations. That time has passed with the advent of
the Internet and ability to access the 'net in most world locations.
That's been proven in the second Gulf War.

MARS is NOT amateur radio.

Try to get used to it. Get another flag to wave.

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/29/2004 5:48 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Leo

writes:

The FACTS are that MARS needs those civilian operators to make the
program work.

Actually, no.

Actually, yes.

Withdrawl of Amatuer assets would result in an overall loss that would
cripple the program. Without those participants there'd be nothing to be
"affiliated" with.

Something to remember on our national holiday of Memorial.

It's enlightening to see what you consider memorable, considering that you
seem to forget honor and respect the rest of the year.

Thanks for the historical piece on MARS. Your cut-and-paste skills are at
an all time high.

No Amatuer Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/29/2004 5:48 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Leo

writes:

The FACTS are that MARS needs those civilian operators to make the
program work.

Actually, no.

Actually, yes.

Withdrawl of Amatuer assets would result in an overall loss that would
cripple the program. Without those participants there'd be nothing to be
"affiliated" with.

MARS never worked with "amatuer assets." :-)

You've never read DoD Directive 4650.2 (21 Nov 03) have you?

MARS was never created, implemented, or directed to be a PART
of regular military tactical or strategic communications. It was
created - essentially - for morale and public relations activities, a
link between civilians and military. Over the years the role of MARS
has shifted from the morale and PR aspect to being a "go-between"
between established military communications and government
emergency and aid agencies.


No Amatuer Radio = No MARS.

Again, MARS never worked with "amatuer radio." :-)

Your original assertion was (see thread title) "MARS is amateur
radio."

That original assertion is WRONG.

MARS is (obviously) MILITARY.

MARS was originally created BY the military. It exists today on its
own as organic with the military structure and can function by
itself. The 2002 exercise of Grecian Firebolt over four weeks back
two years ago proved that.

You try to backpedal by changing your assertion that "No amateur
radio = no MARS." That too is WRONG.

MARS hasn't had the word "amateur" in its acronym since 1948.

The FCC didn't create MARS nor does it regulate it. Department
of Defense authorizes MARS (see Directive 4650.2).

It really is THAT simple.

Yes, what I've explained IS simple...but you REFUSE to accept
reality outside your imagination. Twice, really, first in the original
assertion and then in the revised form, both of which are incorrect.
You stubbornly insist you are right, almost in outrage (once again
misspelling "amateur" twice, as done in previous postings).

That's a sign of a disordered mind (along with refusal to accept
reality and constant displayed sociopathy). Get mental help.

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/30/2004 11:58 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Withdrawl of Amatuer assets would result in an overall loss that would
cripple the program. Without those participants there'd be nothing to be
"affiliated" with.

MARS never worked with "amatuer assets."

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! !

So, Lennie...Those thousands of persons who have membership in the various
branch progrmas are NOT an ASSET to those programs...?!?!

WHAT AN IDIOT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

You've never read DoD Directive 4650.2 (21 Nov 03) have you?

You've never been a member of those programs and have PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE
in what makes them tick, have you...?!?!?

MARS was never created, implemented, or directed to be a PART
of regular military tactical or strategic communications. It was
created - essentially - for morale and public relations activities, a
link between civilians and military. Over the years the role of MARS
has shifted from the morale and PR aspect to being a "go-between"
between established military communications and government
emergency and aid agencies.

OK...SO you AGREE with what I've been saying all along then!

No Amatuer Radio = No MARS.

Again, MARS never worked with "amatuer radio."

And again, your ignorance is showing!

Your original assertion was (see thread title) "MARS is amateur
radio."

That original assertion is WRONG.

That you cannot think in the abstract is flamingly obvious!

MARS is (obviously) MILITARY.

A "military" program that DEPENDS upon licnesed Amateurs to run.

MARS was originally created BY the military. It exists today on its
own as organic with the military structure and can function by
itself. The 2002 exercise of Grecian Firebolt over four weeks back
two years ago proved that.

You try to backpedal by changing your assertion that "No amateur
radio = no MARS." That too is WRONG.

MARS hasn't had the word "amateur" in its acronym since 1948.

Doesn't matter.

In order to accomplish it's tasked goals, MARS needs those lincesed
Amateurs in order to function.

The FCC didn't create MARS nor does it regulate it. Department
of Defense authorizes MARS (see Directive 4650.2).

Why do you keep trying to make an issue of this, Lennie? I've never
mentioned the FCC in any of these exchanges?

It really is THAT simple.

Yes, what I've explained IS simple...but you REFUSE to accept
reality outside your imagination. Twice, really, first in the original
assertion and then in the revised form, both of which are incorrect.
You stubbornly insist you are right, almost in outrage (once again
misspelling "amateur" twice, as done in previous postings).

You've only quoted from published manuals and directives. It still does
not accurately reflect the true character of the MARS programs.

There's nothing INaccurate in what you've QUOTED when you've quoted it,
it's just that YOU refuse to accept that CURRENT MARS PRACTICE AND NEEDS are
DEPENDENT upon LICENSED RADIO AMATEURS to fulfill.

That's a sign of a disordered mind (along with refusal to accept
reality and constant displayed sociopathy). Get mental help.

What YOU have demonstrated is that YOU are trying to express an opinion
based upon purely theoretical or stricty "by the book" definitions and DO NOT
understand the actual functionings of ANY of the programs.

I again ask you how many MARSGRAMS have YOU processed?

How many phonepatches for AFLOAT units have you ran?

How's that Navy-Marine Corps MARS application going?

Please, Lennie...show us what PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE you have in ANY MARS
program....Of course you can always regale us with your exploits of 63 years
ago...

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/30/2004 11:58 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Withdrawl of Amatuer assets would result in an overall loss that would
cripple the program. Without those participants there'd be nothing to be
"affiliated" with.

MARS never worked with "amatuer assets."

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! !

So, Lennie...Those thousands of persons who have membership in the
various branch progrmas are NOT an ASSET to those programs...?!?!

WHAT AN IDIOT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

You wrote "amatuer" twice instead of the proper word "amateur."

Neither MARS nor the FCC has used "amatuers."

You have a near-constant tendency to misspell "amateur" in the
haste you seem to have (or possibly outrage, anger) to attempt
"cutting me off at the knees." :-)

You've never read DoD Directive 4650.2 (21 Nov 03) have you?

You've never been a member of those programs and have PRACTICAL
EXPERIENCE in what makes them tick, have you...?!?!?

Actually, I've operated one MARS transmitter allowed at the ADA
site long ago. Otherwise, no, I've never "operated MARS."

Closest I got to interplanetary communications was with the ALSEP
stations placed on the moon. Did supervise unmanned spacecraft
assembly that (eventually) orbited Mars.

On Terra, I've not been required to be an attorney of any kind in
reading and understanding of various laws from the government,
nor did I need to be any kind of commissioned officer in the
military to read and understand military specifications.

MARS was never created, implemented, or directed to be a PART
of regular military tactical or strategic communications. It was
created - essentially - for morale and public relations activities, a
link between civilians and military. Over the years the role of MARS
has shifted from the morale and PR aspect to being a "go-between"
between established military communications and government
emergency and aid agencies.

OK...SO you AGREE with what I've been saying all along then!

Not at all.

You've said "MARS is amateur radio."

That's false. MARS is MILITARY.

No Amatuer Radio = No MARS.

Again, MARS never worked with "amatuer radio."

And again, your ignorance is showing!

MARS likes to get volunteers from amateur radio, NOT "amatuer radio."

There's no such thing as "amatuer radio." :-)

Your original assertion was (see thread title) "MARS is amateur
radio."

That original assertion is WRONG.

That you cannot think in the abstract is flamingly obvious!

I'd say it is a case of you not being able to "think" at all.

MARS is MILITARY by DoD Directive, by regulations from all
three military branches.

The FCC doesn't define MARS, doesn't and cannot regulate it.

MARS is (obviously) MILITARY.

A "military" program that DEPENDS upon licnesed Amateurs to run.

No. MARS is "run" by military personnel. U.S. Army MARS Hq
is NETCOM at Fort Huachuca, AZ. They use military radio
equipment for MARS there.

MARS was originally created BY the military. It exists today on its
own as organic with the military structure and can function by
itself. The 2002 exercise of Grecian Firebolt over four weeks back
two years ago proved that.

You try to backpedal by changing your assertion that "No amateur
radio = no MARS." That too is WRONG.

MARS hasn't had the word "amateur" in its acronym since 1948.

Doesn't matter.

It did to the U.S. Army. It created the predecessor of MARS in
the AARS or Army Amateur Radio Service in 1925. Newly-
created USAF joined in 1948 and the AARS was renamed
MARS.

In order to accomplish it's tasked goals, MARS needs those lincesed
Amateurs in order to function.

MARS doesn't use "lincesed amateurs."

VOLUNTEERS for MARS operations come from "licensed amateurs."

The FCC didn't create MARS nor does it regulate it. Department
of Defense authorizes MARS (see Directive 4650.2).

Why do you keep trying to make an issue of this, Lennie? I've never
mentioned the FCC in any of these exchanges?

MARS is MILITARY.

Radio amateurs are licensed (not "lincesed") by the FCC. FCC
can only license (not "lincese") CIVIL radio, not military.




It really is THAT simple.

Yes, what I've explained IS simple...but you REFUSE to accept
reality outside your imagination. Twice, really, first in the original
assertion and then in the revised form, both of which are incorrect.
You stubbornly insist you are right, almost in outrage (once again
misspelling "amateur" twice, as done in previous postings).

You've only quoted from published manuals and directives. It still
does not accurately reflect the true character of the MARS programs.

Your "reflections on true character" exist only in your mind.

MARS is adequately described by MILITARY directives and
regulations. Some MARS operations have been written up in
the Army Center for Military History.

If you wish to imagine that your volunteerism with any MARS
makes you a part of the military service, that is just your
imagination working too hard.

There's nothing INaccurate in what you've QUOTED when you've quoted it,
it's just that YOU refuse to accept that CURRENT MARS PRACTICE AND NEEDS are
DEPENDENT upon LICENSED RADIO AMATEURS to fulfill.

No again. MARS can operate by itself, using just military personnel.

It did that in Grecian Thunderbolt 2002 for four weeks according to
the quarterly Army Communicator.


What YOU have demonstrated is that YOU are trying to express an opinion
based upon purely theoretical or stricty "by the book" definitions and DO NOT
understand the actual functionings of ANY of the programs.

No. I've merely stated the reality of MARS along with some of its
known history.

As a licensed radio amateur (not a "lincesed" one) you have to
both operate and conduct yourself "by the book" of Part 97 in order
to retain your amateur radio license (not "lincese") grant.

I again ask you how many MARSGRAMS have YOU processed?

I've tried to send three of those MARS messages through the
local FEC Hq. MARS detachment. They never got forwarded.
Surface mail was far more reliable. :-)

How many phonepatches for AFLOAT units have you ran?

"AFLOAT?" Is that some kind of MARS auxilliary? :-)

How's that Navy-Marine Corps MARS application going?

Why are you so concerned about "applying to Navy MARS?"

I've never said that I wanted to participate in MARS.

Please, Lennie...show us what PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE you have in ANY MARS
program....Of course you can always regale us with your exploits of 63 years
ago...

"Regale exploits of 63 years ago?!?" :-)

63 years ago would make it the year 1941. I was 8 years
old then.

You didn't exist in 1941. Your parents were never able
to bear children in 1941.

They should have stayed with that ability. :-)

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/30/2004 7:08 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

So, Lennie...Those thousands of persons who have membership in the
various branch progrmas are NOT an ASSET to those programs...?!?!

WHAT AN IDIOT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

You wrote "amatuer" twice instead of the proper word "amateur."

Neither MARS nor the FCC has used "amatuers."

You have a near-constant tendency to misspell "amateur" in the
haste you seem to have (or possibly outrage, anger) to attempt
"cutting me off at the knees."

I see.

You make idiotic replies based solely upon a typo.

Which makes you even MORE idiotic, considering your alleged education.

VOLUNTEERS for MARS operations come from "licensed amateurs."

So other than your attempt to "undermine" my points based upon a
transposed letter, we can again assume that you agree with me that MARS depends
upon these licensed Amateurs to run the program.

If you wish to imagine that your volunteerism with any MARS
makes you a part of the military service, that is just your
imagination working too hard.

If YOU wish to try and suppose that, then you are welcome to.

It seems to me that you have an unwavering hatred of anyone who's done
anything you HAVEN'T done, or HAS done, only better.

I again ask you how many MARSGRAMS have YOU processed?

I've tried to send three of those MARS messages through the
local FEC Hq. MARS detachment. They never got forwarded.
Surface mail was far more reliable.

Uh huh.

How many phonepatches for AFLOAT units have you ran?

"AFLOAT?" Is that some kind of MARS auxilliary?

Yet another demosntration of your lack of experience.

How's that Navy-Marine Corps MARS application going?

Why are you so concerned about "applying to Navy MARS?"

You said that N/MC MARS regualtions didn't specify a need for licensure
in the Amateur Radio Service to be a member. You said you could do it. I was
waiting to see if you could/would, if only to prove you could.

You didn't, obviously, which is exactly what I would expect of you.

A lot of blustery brogadaccio with no net effect.

I've never said that I wanted to participate in MARS.

Under current circumstances, you won't be allowed to.

Please, Lennie...show us what PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE you have in ANY MARS
program....Of course you can always regale us with your exploits of 63 years
ago...

"Regale exploits of 63 years ago?!?" :-)

63 years ago would make it the year 1941. I was 8 years
old then.

You didn't exist in 1941. Your parents were never able
to bear children in 1941.

Oh? You know my parents? You know when they married? You know that I am
the youngest/oldest of the family?

Forgive my math error. I forgive you many of yours. None the less, it
remains that the ONLY "military" communications experience you have was over
half a century ago. NONE of it in any MARS program.

They should have stayed with that ability.

As should have yours.

Speaking of which, when are we gonna get the scopp on YOUR child rearing
experiences? Still waiting on the source of your background for the assertion
that Amateur licenses should be age-limitied

Temper fry...

Not here...

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: MARS IS "Amateur Radio".
From: (William)
Date: 5/31/2004 5:40 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

"Hi hi" indeed, Brain.

I am sure you hear quite a bit of laughter.

I do.

No doubt.

"Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio," you keep insisting.

No, Brian...YOU keep insisting.

I said it metaphorically, and explained my rationale for it.

You have based a whole months worth of trolls on that, and have yet to
disporve any other assertion I have made.

Suvks to be you, PuppetBoy!

Brain....YOU said that "most" MUNICIPAL radio operators wore police
uniforms.

It's not me doing the grasping.

Now...Try again, PuppetBoy. Your mentor is watching.

So what. I didn't take all of one group and say that it is equal to
another group, just because there may be a relationship. You did.

"So what", indeed.

YOU said that "MOST" municipal "radio operators" wore police uniforms.

I (accurately) pointed out that that police force is only one segment of
municipal workers that use two-way radios, and do NOT comprise "most" of the
municipal work force.

Also, I did not make ANY analogy to municipal workers in this or any
other thread.

You did.

Now...try as you might, it's already archived that you did this. Now you
are trying to wiggle out of it.

STILL sucks to be you.

YOU said that MOST "municipal radio operators (wore) police
uniforms".

That is wrong. Even in YOUR community.

No, it isn't. We're kind of heavy on LE here.

Yes, It it.

I like it that way. Keeps the creepy crawlies away.

Obviously not. You're still there.

But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to know your community is
"kind
of heavy on LE"...considering who lives there.

People with good incomes.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh....Now you base the character of your neighbors based upon
thier paychecks?

What a FREAKIN' SCUMBAG you are!

Geeeze-Loweeze, Burke! You sink just a bit lower EVERY TIME YOU POST!

Brian..TRY and get ONE thing right today, OK...?!?!

"Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio."

Hi hi.

Keep laughing, Burkie. It's the only thing funny about you. The rest is
just plain pitiful.

Steve, K4YZ