In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article . net, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Corrupting it in the process. "Handle" used to simply mean "name", and
it
wasn't even strictly a piece of ham jargon. cb folks changed its meaning
to "a
made-up name to avoid using call letters or other means of positive
identification".

Whatever! 60 years ago Clinton DeSoto wrote:

"Among radio amateurs there is a genuine brotherhood and informal
camaraderie. Everyone is called by his "handle" -- his first name
or nickname. The president of the Chicago Stock Exchange and the
mechanic in a Birmingham garage are just "Paul" and "Joe" when
they meet on the air."

I guess I'll continue to use the term 'handle" --- seems to have good
roots.

Etymologists into common American idioms can tell us all that the
term "handle" predates the first demonstrations of radio as a
communications medium. That is, prior to 1896. Its use was
widespread in the sun belt areas of the USA.

Of course, Len. That's what I wrote:

" "Handle" used to simply mean "name", and it wasn't even strictly a piece
of ham jargon. "

Tsk, tsk.

Why?

The word "ham" is still not the best of "respectable" nicknames.

Yes, it is. In radio anyway.

You would be in difficulty saying an actor is a ham. :-)

Why would I be "in difficulty" for using that term on an actor? Are actors
sacred to you?

Meanings of words can change over time. cb folks changed the meaning of
"handle" when applied to identification of a person. Rather than simply
meaning
"name", they changed it to mean "a made-up name to avoid using call letters
or other means of positive identification".

Well, there we have it.

What's not correct in those statements?

The judgement from Nuremberg (or someplace).

Remember Mike Godwin.

Tsk. Trying to lay blame on the "cb folks."

Just pointing out the truth.

Why do you have a problem with CB?

I've explained my views on cb before, in detail. Here's some light reading on
the subject:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...176%40ladder01.
news.aol.com&output=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...615%40ladder03.
news.aol.com&output=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...007469%40ng-bk
1.aol.com&output=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...000506%40nso-c
u.aol.com&output=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...000506%40nso-c
u.aol.com&output=gplain


Tell us, Len - do *you* think cb is a good example for how *any* radio service
should be?

Do you think amateur radio should be more like cb (in any way other than not
having a code test)?

"Handles", on cb, were and are used in an attempt to *avoid positive
identification* by others, particularly the FCC.

Oh? You have personal experience with that? :-)

Only by almost 40 years of observing cb users.

I've never owned nor used a cb set. I have listened to what goes on in and
around their 27 MHz allocations. Even as a teenager I wanted no parts of it.

That's not something any radio amateur should do. It's a bad thing.

Tsk. Vile, contemptible, dastardly sort of bad thing? :-)

Do you think they are good things?

Run right out to the FCC with your reports on evil, wicked, mean
and nasty CBers not giving their proper, official call letters! :-)

Perhaps you think we hams should not have call letters either.

The use of "handles" by cb folks for the purpose of evading positive
detection
dates back years before FCC stopped issuing licenses and call letters for cb
users. In fact, one of the reasons (not the only one) FCC gave up on cb
licensing was that few cb users were using call signs.

Well, there we have it...again.

The "insiders" information on Why The FCC Does Things!

How is it incorrect?

It's no wonder you get upset when someone calls Mikey Powell for
"Mikey."

"someone calls Mikey Powell for "Mikey.""?

What does that mean?

Howard Stern recently called into a California radio show and spoke directly to
Mr. Powell. You could have done the same thing, Len....

It's hard to suck up to the boss when you get razzed for it?

I'm still waiting for you to call Mr. Powell "Mikey" to his face. Or in your
official comments to FCC.

So, what did YOU DO about making CB all right and amateur-
proper?

Lots of things, Len.

What did *you* do? You were a "professional" with all sorts of experience in
1958 - couldn't you deal with that mess?

Nothing? Tsk.

Why would cb be my responsibility? I was a kid when it became a mess. You were
right in your career, doing the radio professional thing. Why didn't you make
cb better?

Class D Citizens Band has been in existance since 1958.

UHF cb was around for a decade or so longer.

That's
a long time. [I was working at Ramo-Wooldridge Corporation when
that happened...were you working anyplace?]

What did you do to keep cb from going bad, Len?

cb folks started using the terms "personal" and "first personal" to mean
"name"
and "first name" in part because the meaning of "handle" had changed.

"Hi hi" and a "'73," copy your op-ed "599" OM. :-)

All of that is plain, simple fact. Hard for you to take, though. Too bad!

NOT "fact," Jimmie. Just your OPINION.

What part of it is not factual?

Try to understand you and your opinions are NOT the center of the
universe.

What part is not true?

10-4, good buddy? What's *your* handle, Len? How many Bird watts does your
radidio dead key?

I don't have a "radidio." Explain what that is supposed to be.

I think you know, good buddy.

I have a NAME and use it, on or off any communications device.

Not always! Particularly not here.

Many of your postings here, under screen names such as "nocwtest" and
"averyfineman", do not contain your name anywhere. Others, under screen names
like "lenover21" and "lenof21", do not make it clear what your name is.

My briefcase has a handle, my suitcases have handles, all our
doors at home have handles, many of the kitchen implements have
handles (knives, pans, pots, etc.), we have all sorts of drawers and
cabinets with handles. Even my despised (in the PCTA's view)
Icom R-70 has one handle!

Nobody despises your R-70, Len. Least of all me.

Sunnuvagun! :-)

You also have handles, Len, by your own admission:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...000049%40nso-b
k.aol.com&output=gplain

Quoting from that one:

"My AOL membership limits the number of letters and also precludes using my
full name due to the large number of AOL users who have the same first few
letters. At best I could have only the first five letters plus a number
suffix, therefore I chose the same handle as I had on US Pompeii BBS eleven
years ago."


http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...003177%40nso-b
j.aol.com&output=gplain

Quoting again:

"Quite true. Some don't understand that different "handles" may be an
expression of humor. With a large number of users on AOL, for example, it
was impossible for me to use my name even with given name shortened. I c
ouldn't use an old "handle" of mine from a BBS run by a friend of mine. AOL
rejected them due to some alphanumeric conflict with another subscriber(s).
It took three years before that other subscriber(s) left and I could use
the one I wanted. The handle is an inside joke, explainable only to those
who were on the US Pompeii BBS. I've used "No CW TEST" as a handle since I
was, and still am, advocating the abolishment of the amateur morse code
test."

So please don't tell us that you use only your name for identification, and
that you have no "handles". That's simply not true.

All you have is an amateur callsign and use it like a name.

Actually, I've had several callsigns. And a name. And some screen names. No
handles.

In amateur radio, a callsign is a positive identifier. There are many amateurs
with my first name, a few with my last name. Elsewhere in the world there may
be someone with exactly the same name as me.
But there is only one N2EY.

That's
not good for you in court when some police force makes you appear
there.

Why would any police force make me appear in court? And what does that have to
do with amateur radio policy or this newsgroup?

You are federally authorized to transmit RF energy, but ONLY
in amateur radio bands and ONLY within their technical limits.

Wrong again, Len!

I'm authorized to transmit radio signals in the amateur bands - and also to use
many other radio services, including cb and FRS. Within the regulations, of
course. If I were so inclined, I could get a GMRS license, VHF marine radio
license, and other FCC licenses - just like any citizen.

A Bird manufactured wattmeter is a good dummy load with a meter
(reasonably accurate) measuring the power dissipated in that load.

??

"wattmeter is a good dummy load"?

No it isn't.

I first used one in commercial work sometimes in the 1960s.

So what?

Perhaps your love of "handles" is why you can't seem to call people by their
names...

Perhaps you are losing your sanity, going around imagining what
others think and do.

If that's your measure of sanity, then you are far worse off than I, Len.
Because you frequently tell us what other people are thinking, and what their
motivations are.

Tsk. We already have one confirmed nutso
in this newsgroup.

Who would that be? Who made the diagnosis?

Another one (another PCTA) won't make much difference.

Meanwhile, back to the "meaningful" discussions by the Architects
and Master Mariners (of the landlocked kind) into the WTC,
airliner handling, engineering safety, and navel maneuvers. All of
which have enormous impact on amateur radio policy matters. :-)

They have more impact and relevance than your oft-repeated stories of
watching
teletypes at ADA 24/7, or your claim to fame of writing for a defunct
magazine.

What "oft-repeated stories of watching teletypes," Rev. Jim?

You've told us of your exploits in Japan many, many, many times, Len. As if
they somehow made you more qualified to determine how *amateur* radio should be
run than those of who actually are radio amateurs.

Army station ADA had teletype loops linking transmitters, receivers,
and the control. Only three loops and three separate circuits as
order wires (where all the commands are given, advisories noted).
That makes only three to "watch" (one can hear them start up from
their normal idle state). One had better "watch" those...or face
disciplinary action at a military station.

And there were how many of you on duty at any time to do that?

Oh, but you've never served your country in the military, have you?

Never claimed to. Why is that relevant in any way? You don't show any respect
to those who have served our country in the military, but who disagree with you
on issues that have nothing to do with the military.

No, you serve your country "in other ways."

Where did I say that?

Besides, why is that relevant in any way? You don't show any respect to those
who have served our country in nonmilitary service, but who disagree with you
on issues that have nothing to do with government service. For example, Dave
Heil, K8MN (and a list of other calls) has served our country in both military
and nonmilitary service for his entire professional life, IIRC. Yet you made
fun of his service to the State Department, and claimed that his examples of
Morse use in nonamateur radio communications were untrue. *You* weren't there,
*he* was, yet you argued with him about it, called him names, and basically
showed him no respect.

Not all of us can be as lucky as I and get exposed to REAL HF
communications done around the clock, every day of each year.

Seems like you don't consider amateur radio to be "REAL HF"....

But, you never did ANY of that so you show your spite by insulting
those of us few who did real service. Tsk.

How did I insult anyone's military service, Len? Show us. C'mon - all my posts
are in Google.

Now you want to toss snit on Ham Radio Magazine? Again?

Snit?

It was "ham radio" magazine, Len. No capitals.

Is it not defunct? Where can I buy some 2004 issues? Or sign up for a current
subscription?

Jim Fisk and Skip Tenney (editor in chief and publisher, respectively)
started HR as an independent amateur radio periodical. What they
started kept on going for 22 years.

Yep. It was a pretty good mag. I was sorry when it stopped publication.

btw, QST has been published for more than 88 years total. It is the
longest-lived radio periodical in the world. Not just amateur radio periodical
- radio periodical of any kind.

[Jim Fisk died suddenly of a
heart attack before the 22 years were completed]

Sad. Very sad. Too few people take proper care of themselves.

Communications
Technology, Inc., did not have the benefit of a budget umbrella and
life preserver from any membership organization...they did it by
themselves.

What are you getting at, Len?

"ham radio" magazine was supported by its advertising and its subscriptions. It
did not have to provide any membership services other than mailing copies of
the mag to subscribers each month.

How would a "membership organization" have functioned as a "budget umbrella and
life preserver"? If anything, having to provide services to members costs money
rather than generating it.

Their reputation as a source of technical information
for radio amateurs was recognized around the world. Still is.

As I have written - it was a pretty good magazine. Almost as good as QST.

Did you write articles for HR? No, you didn't.

Did you write articles for QST? No, you didn't.

Were you on the HR
masthead (the column next to the TOC showing the names of the
staff)? No, you were not. You did neither. I did both.

So what? Your articles in hr were spread over about a 5 year period in that 22
year history. There were perhaps two dozen of them, all of them theory articles
whose content was pretty standard stuff. (For example, there was a series of
articles on digital theory. QST ran a similar series more than 5 years
earlier).

*None* of your articles appear to be construction articles. Not one.

I don't "claim any fame" from what was minimum-wage work for HR.

Sure you do. You mention it here frequently.

It was FUN work in a field I was, and still am, in...that of radio and
electronics.

Not retired yet, huh?

In fact, I don't claim ANY "fame" in anything.

Sure you do! Otherwise what is the point of your long OT postings here?

I've done
my career well in a work that I chose because it was interesting to
me, still do my hobbies in that for the same reason.

There you go!

What I've said I've done was actually done.

So have many of the rest of us. But you make fun of what others do.

There's even
"documented" proof available that I did. :-)

Sounds like fame-hunger to me.

I don't hang in a news-
group every day as you do, speaking out on all kinds of subjects

I don't "hang out here every day", Len. Even if I did, is that somehow wrong?

What you do, Len, is to post here *almost* every day, at great length, on a
wide variety of subjects.

that: (1) Don't concern amateur radio in any way;

Sure. You do the same thing. Is that wrong?

(2) Are not from your work experience;

Sure. You do the same thing. Is that wrong?

If I posted things from my work experience, would that somehow cause you to
show some respect? Or change your views on anything? I don't think so.

Is posting from a person's work experience somehow more valid or more relevant
than posting from nonwork experience?

(3) Are presented as "facts" because they
are personal preferences and opinions instead of facts.

Where? Give us some examples, Len. Show us.

You've done all three of those in one message. :-)

Where?

It sure sounds to me like Mike, KB3EIA, is right: You want to be the moderator,
telling everyone what they can and cannot discuss, and how they are to discuss it.

(William) wrote in message om...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/28/2004 4:27 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
William wrote:

David Heil said that "I just did it" with respect to getting "Extra
right out of the box." But Dave's first license was Novice. Did
David lie?

...or did "William" once again misunderstand.

I understand OK. You just have a special way with words.

Yes, He does...

It's called the ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

You should try it sometime...

Steve, K4YZ

I have. I've even tried it as a second language, which you didn't
like much either. Some people are never satisfied.

Dat Stebe Rubberson; He lie an lie an lie. Sumbday he be honnes, an
it make his hart stop.

(William) wrote in message m...

I have. I've even tried it as a second language, which you didn't
like much either. Some people are never satisfied.

Dat Stebe Rubberson; He lie an lie an lie. Sumbday he be honnes, an
it make his hart stop.

Having failed to divert attention away from your lying, deceit
and misconduct, you resume the baby babble.

I really do need to get some help to you. Will you accept
counselling, Brian?

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message m...
(William) wrote in message m...

I have. I've even tried it as a second language, which you didn't
like much either. Some people are never satisfied.

Dat Stebe Rubberson; He lie an lie an lie. Sumbday he be honnes, an
it make his hart stop.

Having failed to divert attention away from your lying, deceit
and misconduct, you resume the baby babble.

I really do need to get some help to you. Will you accept
counselling, Brian?

Steve, K4YZ

And so you succumb to english as a second language.

Just how predictable was that? Hi, hi!

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 9:32 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
om...
(William) wrote in message
om...

I have. I've even tried it as a second language, which you didn't
like much either. Some people are never satisfied.

Dat Stebe Rubberson; He lie an lie an lie. Sumbday he be honnes, an
it make his hart stop.

Having failed to divert attention away from your lying, deceit
and misconduct, you resume the baby babble.

I really do need to get some help to you. Will you accept
counselling, Brian?

Steve, K4YZ

And so you succumb to english as a second language.

Just how predictable was that? Hi, hi!

"English" is capitalized.

And you didn't answer my question...If I can get a mental health
counsellor to you, will you accept the help?

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 9:32 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
om...
(William) wrote in message
m...

I have. I've even tried it as a second language, which you didn't
like much either. Some people are never satisfied.

Dat Stebe Rubberson; He lie an lie an lie. Sumbday he be honnes, an
it make his hart stop.

Having failed to divert attention away from your lying, deceit
and misconduct, you resume the baby babble.

I really do need to get some help to you. Will you accept
counselling, Brian?

Steve, K4YZ

And so you succumb to english as a second language.

Just how predictable was that? Hi, hi!

"English" is capitalized.

And you didn't answer my question...If I can get a mental health
counsellor to you, will you accept the help?

Steve, K4YZ

I'm only curious how you know a mental health counsellor. Tsk, tsk.

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 11/3/2004 2:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

And you didn't answer my question...If I can get a mental health
counsellor to you, will you accept the help?

Steve, K4YZ

I'm only curious how you know a mental health counsellor. Tsk, tsk.

In my profession, it's neceesary to know a great many people in a great
many different healthcare disciplines.

This will make my fourth time asking your this specific question. A YES
or NO is all that's required...Will you accept counselling is I can get a
mental health care counsellor to you...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4YZ) wrote in message ...
Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 11/3/2004 2:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

And you didn't answer my question...If I can get a mental health
counsellor to you, will you accept the help?

Steve, K4YZ

I'm only curious how you know a mental health counsellor. Tsk, tsk.

In my profession, it's neceesary to know a great many people in a great
many different healthcare disciplines.

Ditto with all of the therapy required to rehabilitate and return you
to the civilian world.

This will make my fourth time asking your this specific question. A YES
or NO is all that's required...Will you accept counselling is I can get a
mental health care counsellor to you...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

Well then, ask away!

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 11/4/2004 5:59 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4YZ) wrote in message
...
Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 11/3/2004 2:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

And you didn't answer my question...If I can get a mental health
counsellor to you, will you accept the help?

Steve, K4YZ

I'm only curious how you know a mental health counsellor. Tsk, tsk.

In my profession, it's neceesary to know a great many people in a
great
many different healthcare disciplines.

Ditto with all of the therapy required to rehabilitate and return you
to the civilian world.

Such as...???

Brain, you're making yet another insinuation that's obviously false.

Why, in the face of so many contradicting facts to the contrary, do you
continue to lie and mislead? Do you ENJOY being known as a liar? Do you ENJOY
knowing that your character is about zero-point-zero?

This will make my fourth time asking your this specific question. A
YES
or NO is all that's required...Will you accept counselling is I can get a
mental health care counsellor to you...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

Well then, ask away!

I knew you'd not answer a direct question directly.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4YZ) wrote in message ...
Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 11/4/2004 5:59 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4YZ) wrote in message
...
Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 11/3/2004 2:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

And you didn't answer my question...If I can get a mental health
counsellor to you, will you accept the help?

Steve, K4YZ

I'm only curious how you know a mental health counsellor. Tsk, tsk.

In my profession, it's neceesary to know a great many people in a
great
many different healthcare disciplines.

Ditto with all of the therapy required to rehabilitate and return you
to the civilian world.

Such as...???

Brain, you're making yet another insinuation that's obviously false.

Why, in the face of so many contradicting facts to the contrary, do you
continue to lie and mislead? Do you ENJOY being known as a liar? Do you ENJOY
knowing that your character is about zero-point-zero?

You are truly an amazing individual.

You were medically discharged and retired from the Corps.

You have been declared "disabled."

You have not had a single act of therapy.

You now hold a physically demanding and mentally challenging job all
while still being disabled.

How do you like the "known liar" label?