Subject: Get your Trophy US Extra Callsign (A KH0x call would be nice!)
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/22/2004 10:06 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: et

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote

or that they fail to render oaths and allegiance
to Hans Brakob?

Steve, could you point out to me where this "render oaths and
allegiance" ( !@#$%^&* ) comes from? Had to double check and make sure the
post didn't come from Len Anderson!

Perhaps it came from your opening line about "what's wrong with this post"
stuff, Hans. You're bandying your "expertise" about...was just wondering.

Your point was?


If you have to ask, you probably won't "get it", but I've got a hot news
flash for you. Those fellas taking the FCC tests at DU and JA hamfests
aren't dual citizens of DU (or JA) and Saipan, they're souveneir
collectors and reciprocal-licensing cheats.

So WHO CARES, HANS...?!?!

They have to pay the same fee that any other examinee has to pay, so what
does it matter to you?

I reiterate my previous observation...UNITED STATES CITIZENSHIP IS NOT
REQUIRED FOR FCC LICENSURE.

They've been holding VE exams in Europe and the former Soviet Union since
the 90's, Hans. Where was your righteous indignation then...??? A bit
displaced since the inhabitants of Europe are essentially of the same ethnic
background as you...???

There are a small handful of "will-call" PO boxes in KH0 and KH2 which
are the "home address" for hundreds of JA and DU citizens. (What do all
these calls have in common? KH2O KH0JQ KH0JU KH0KW AH0BB KH0BZ KH0CG
KH0CQ KH0HQ KH0HZ WH0V NH0F WH0B WH0C AH0AS AH0AU KH0CN KH0DD ......and
I could go on for hundreds of desirable KH0/KH2 call signs held by
foreign nationals who've never set foot on Guam/Saipan/US soil and
likely have no intention to ever do so.)

Again, WHO CARES...???

The present callsign system has been in place since 1978 now...If those
calls weren't already taken by American nationals, chances are they won't be
any time soon anyway.

Here's how it works. DU1XYZ or JA1XYZ knows a guy on KH0 or KH2 and has
him rent a PO Box. Then he gets himself and a couple of buddies a W5YI
VE certificate and holds exams. Applicants are given the KH0 or KH2 PO
Box address (for a "consideration") and "bingo", they have their
souveneir US call sign.

It's the price we pay for living in a society that insists on extending
it's "rights" to everyone who is NOT a citizen, Hans. There have been numerous
attempts to reign in those "rights" to the exclusive ownership of US citizens
or foreign nationals legally landed on US soil.

With rare exception, every attempt to do so has failed as a result of the
liberal courts...The same courts that demand that the government "play fair" by
publishing the verbatim questions and answers to licensing examinations for a
wide variety of pursuits.

That's why a pregnant illegal immigrant can wade across the Rio Grande
just in time for Junior to make an appearance, and since he landed here and not
in Juarez, mommy get's to stay too.

Over half of the KH0 and KH2 2x1 calls have
been scarfed up by JA's and DU's. Meanwhile some kid on Guam or Saipan
who upgrades to Extra has to wait until a JA or DU fella croaks over to
capture a desireable call, unless some other JA or DU captures it first
for a souvenier.

"Over half", eh...???

Well, you didn't specify a number, so let's just use "half" (50%) as a
nice round number to work with.

There are four available prefixes in 0 and 2 each...AH, KH, NH and WH.
That's 104 potential 2 x 1 calls on Saipan and 104 on Guam.

Unless Amateur Radio suddenly takes a big upward turn, I don't see there
being a big rush on them.

I went thru the KH0x block...all 26 of them...Exactly 10 of the calls were
non-WASP names with "post office box" addresses. Three were unassigned. The
other 13 calls belonged to people with "stateside" addresses or addresses that
appeared to be valid "local" addresses.

You did a bit better in the AH0 block, Hans, but only by 1...Here we had
11 going to foreign national appearing persons, 8 to persons with CONUS or
"local" sounding addresses, and a grand total of 6 unassigned callsigns. I
missed one somewhere but once through was enough for me. I'll give you that
one, but it's still less than your "over half" assertion.

You finally met your goal in the NH0 block...18 of those calls were to
foreign names via post office boxes...5 were CONUS or "local" while three were
unassigned.

It was a bit questionalble in the WH0 block. Nine were clearly non-US
licensee's. Five were clearly CONUS based holders, while five more I
classified as "questionable" because the addresses appeared to be "local"
boxes, but I couldn't find any corroborating evidence one way or the other (e
mail addresses ending in " dot jp", photos of QSL cards with a foreign address,
etc.). However there were 7 callsigns that were "not in the database"...in
otherwords, unassigned.

I skipped going through the KH2 calls...I imagine I will find similar
results. And forget the 2 x 2 AH0/AH2 calls. That's more fun than I care to
have in one sitting.

However, just for grins and giggles, I started in on the AH0 2 x 2
calls...I only got to AH0AM...1/3 of the calls were either abandoned or were
held by persons living off-island (read that on Hawaii or in the contiguous
48...). Only 3 were held by persons with names that weren't "traditional" WASP
names and had the boxes you described. The rest were folks on-island.

So...that means that if we can use this sampling as a basis for survey,
the available 2 x 2 Extra Class calls falls far short of your suggestion of
"...more than half" being in foreign hands (acknowleging that you specified
"2x1" at one point, however noting you also lamented the numerous 2 x 2 calls
held by foreign nationals at the top of your rant)

The final results...?!?! Clearly less than your assertion of "more than
half" of the "desireable" 2 x 1 callsigns are in the hands of persons not
residing on Saipan.

Care to try again?

Besides "souveniers" I mentioned reciprocal-licensing cheats, which is a
primary reason so many KH0/KH2 calls go to JA's..... Because JA only
has reciprocal agreements with a dozen or less countries, a US license
is an essential tool for JA DXpeditioners --- let's say they'd like to
do a DXpedition to V7 or VP9 . Their JA license is useless, but let
them flash a KH0 license and wham, he's VP9DX with no questions asked.
Meanwhile some kid on Guam or Saipan who upgrades to Extra has to wait
until a JA fella croaks over to capture a desireable call (unless some
other JA captures it first for his reciprocal-cheat scheme).

So...What ya gonna do about it? Why don't you write another "good ol boy"
letter to your editor buddy and whine to him about this too?

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


So...that means that if we can use this sampling as a basis for
survey,
the available 2 x 2 Extra Class calls falls far short .......


Perhaps a review of RF Exposure Guidelines at your station is in order,
Steve. When that's complete, along with any medical attention indicated
as a result, then perhaps a review of the FCC sequential callsign
assignments (as they pertain to license class) is also in order.

When you do that research, you'll find that "2 x 2 Extra Class calls"
don't exist in the KH/KL/KP blocks. A 2 x 2 style call in those groups
indicates a Technician or a General. Do the math.

Nonetheless, if I were a DU or JA or OH or DL going to score a cool
trophy callsign, "KH0XX" is a hell of a lot trendier than "KF4XXX".
And speaking of OH, you or I can't obtain a KH3x call sign (Johnson
Island), but a Vice President of NOKIA (Finland), OH2BH, holds the rare
call AH3D.

Legal. Must be! Does "legal" mean "right"?

Sunuvagun!

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: Care To Try Again, Steve?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/23/2004 9:47 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net



"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


So...that means that if we can use this sampling as a basis for
survey,
the available 2 x 2 Extra Class calls falls far short .......


Perhaps a review of RF Exposure Guidelines at your station is in order,
Steve. When that's complete, along with any medical attention indicated
as a result, then perhaps a review of the FCC sequential callsign
assignments (as they pertain to license class) is also in order.

You can be as insulting as you care to, Hans.

The FACTS are that you made a stupid assertion that was easily refuted by a
bit of time spent researching the database.

Extra class or othrwise, your "greeater than half" assertion is/was wrong.

Stupid Hans.

When you do that research, you'll find that "2 x 2 Extra Class calls"
don't exist in the KH/KL/KP blocks. A 2 x 2 style call in those groups
indicates a Technician or a General. Do the math.

YOU asserted than "more than half" of the "desireable" 2 x 1 KH0/KH2 calls
were in the hands of persons who "have no intention" of landing on US soil/

I proved you wrong. It wasn't that hard. That I goofed on the 2 x 2
"extra callsigns" doesn't change mitigate the other numbers in the least.

Nonetheless, if I were a DU or JA or OH or DL going to score a cool
trophy callsign, "KH0XX" is a hell of a lot trendier than "KF4XXX".
And speaking of OH, you or I can't obtain a KH3x call sign (Johnson
Island), but a Vice President of NOKIA (Finland), OH2BH, holds the rare
call AH3D.

Legal. Must be! Does "legal" mean "right"?

Where did I say "right", Hansel? I said that's the way it is.

And It really is THAT simple.

Sunuvagun!

Stop being an idiot, Hans. You are humiliating yourself in the face of
facts easily refuted by a bit of research. I did the foot work. I gave you
the numbers. You came up a loser.

Sucks to be you.

Sunnuvagun.

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


Extra class or othrwise, your "greeater than half" assertion is/was
wrong.


I'll accept your numbers, Steve, and in fact "greater than half" might
be an inadvertent overstatement. Stupid me.

But that's easy to fix --- I'll amend the assertion to:

"Damned near half of the desireable AH/KH/NH/WH0/KH2
2x1 callsigns have been scarfed up by foreigners through
trophy-callsign acquisition schemes and are therefore
unavailable to US citizens actually residing in those
territories."

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...
"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


So...that means that if we can use this sampling as a basis for
survey,
the available 2 x 2 Extra Class calls falls far short .......


Perhaps a review of RF Exposure Guidelines at your station is in order,
Steve. When that's complete, along with any medical attention indicated
as a result, then perhaps a review of the FCC sequential callsign
assignments (as they pertain to license class) is also in order.

I always attributed it to post-Marine can't-make-it-in-the-real-world
traumatic stress syndrome. ;^)

I guess it could be RF induced, though.

When you do that research, you'll find that "2 x 2 Extra Class calls"
don't exist in the KH/KL/KP blocks. A 2 x 2 style call in those groups
indicates a Technician or a General. Do the math.

Lots of Techs. No Morris Code Test.

Nonetheless, if I were a DU or JA or OH or DL going to score a cool
trophy callsign, "KH0XX" is a hell of a lot trendier than "KF4XXX".
And speaking of OH, you or I can't obtain a KH3x call sign (Johnson
Island), but a Vice President of NOKIA (Finland), OH2BH, holds the rare
call AH3D.

Thought he was VP Nokia China?

And Hey, no fair talking about the elitists. You'll get into trubble
for that. ;^)

Legal. Must be! Does "legal" mean "right"?

Sunuvagun!

73, de Hans, K0HB

hl9act

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

Subject: Care To Try Again, Steve?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/23/2004 9:47 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net



"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


So...that means that if we can use this sampling as a basis for
survey,
the available 2 x 2 Extra Class calls falls far short .......


Perhaps a review of RF Exposure Guidelines at your station is in order,
Steve. When that's complete, along with any medical attention indicated
as a result, then perhaps a review of the FCC sequential callsign
assignments (as they pertain to license class) is also in order.

You can be as insulting as you care to, Hans.

The FACTS are that you made a stupid assertion that was easily refuted by
a
bit of time spent researching the database.

Extra class or othrwise, your "greeater than half" assertion is/was
wrong.


OK, fine. Hans made a mistake.

The bigger question is: Should we put up with the system as described?

Seems to me that all that would be required to fix it would be to require that
FCC would only issue or renew licenses for those persons who were either US
citizens or resident aliens. And all VEs must meet the same criteria.

That way, N3KIP can have his license and US military personnel can take their
exams in Tokyo, but the giveaway stops.

It's not just about callsigns - it's about the integrity of the system.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: Care To Try Again, Steve?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/23/2004 11:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote

Extra class or othrwise, your "greeater than half" assertion is/was
wrong.

I'll accept your numbers, Steve, and in fact "greater than half" might
be an inadvertent overstatement. Stupid me.

But that's easy to fix --- I'll amend the assertion to:

"Damned near half of the desireable AH/KH/NH/WH0/KH2
2x1 callsigns have been scarfed up by foreigners through
trophy-callsign acquisition schemes and are therefore
unavailable to US citizens actually residing in those
territories."

Profanities and after-the-fact changes to INTENTIONAL typing (how does one
"inadvertantly" type something?) notwithstanding, I guess this is as close to
"I was wrong" as you'll get.

Now...go back and re-read the OTHER post, see where you were wrong there,
and see if you can fix THAT, too.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Care To Try Again, Steve?
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 11/23/2004 5:23 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

Subject: Care To Try Again, Steve?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/23/2004 9:47 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net



"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


So...that means that if we can use this sampling as a basis for
survey,
the available 2 x 2 Extra Class calls falls far short .......


Perhaps a review of RF Exposure Guidelines at your station is in order,
Steve. When that's complete, along with any medical attention indicated
as a result, then perhaps a review of the FCC sequential callsign
assignments (as they pertain to license class) is also in order.

You can be as insulting as you care to, Hans.

The FACTS are that you made a stupid assertion that was easily refuted
by
a
bit of time spent researching the database.

Extra class or othrwise, your "greeater than half" assertion is/was
wrong.


OK, fine. Hans made a mistake.

The bigger question is: Should we put up with the system as described?

Seems to me that all that would be required to fix it would be to require
that
FCC would only issue or renew licenses for those persons who were either US
citizens or resident aliens. And all VEs must meet the same criteria.

That way, N3KIP can have his license and US military personnel can take their
exams in Tokyo, but the giveaway stops.

It's not just about callsigns - it's about the integrity of the system.

Again with the allegations of lack of integrity.

I am asking this sincerely...Does ANYone have ANY evidence that these
"tests" were NOT administered in accordance with FCC rules and regulations?
And "giveaways"...Did the applicant's NOT pay the appropriate VE fee at the
time of the exam and did they NOT pay the appropriate fee if their "trophy"
call is other than from the sequential system...?!?!

If you're going to insist that the FCC NOT allow this to happen, other
changes will have to fall in to place too. The interpretations that allowed
THIS to happen are the same interpretations that force the FCC's hand to have
"open pools" of test questions.

I'm all for doing both...requiring some sort of residence requirement for
licensure and closing the test poools, but who's going to foot the bill for the
legal challenges that will be required to get it done...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

"N2EY" wrote


OK, fine. Hans made a mistake.


No, Jim, I didn't make a mistake. I just overstated my case by 2%. I
said "over half" (51%) when I should have said "damned near half" (49%).

grin

Steve, on the other hand is completely mistaken when he claims "AH0XX"
is a call which would sequentially be assigned to an Extra licensee.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: Care To Try Again, Steve?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/23/2004 6:43 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net



"N2EY" wrote


OK, fine. Hans made a mistake.


No, Jim, I didn't make a mistake. I just overstated my case by 2%. I
said "over half" (51%) when I should have said "damned near half" (49%).

grin

Steve, on the other hand is completely mistaken when he claims "AH0XX"
is a call which would sequentially be assigned to an Extra licensee

I did not say it was a call that would be sequentially assigned to an
Extra, Hans.

I said it was a call that an Extra could request. ("Glean" was the exact
word I used)

Steve, K4YZ