In article . net, robert casey
writes:

Without a single poll to back me up, the following could be said to
be accurate for 1911:

Any Frequency:
CW: 100% [on-off keying]

Someone inserted a carbon telephone microphone in
the feedline between the transmitter and antenna, and
produced a crude form of AM. Couldn't have been
much power else the mic would have burnt up. These
mics vary in resistance along with the sound they hear.

Yes, yes, yes, good old Reggie Fessenden did it. At least
once with an audience on Christmas Eve, 1906.

NOBODY followed that example. :-)

AM: 0%
Near but not = 0
SSB: 0%
RTTY: 0%
FM/NBFM: 0%
Other modes: 0%

VHF/UHF (all modes): 0%

Well, how far up did spark go?

I wasn't there with a spectrum analyzer. Ask Jim. He might have
been.

In fact, there was NO ARRL and NONE of the amateur radio
enthusiasts were legal! [NO radio regulating agency active in
the USA in 1911] :-)

No, *all* activity on radio was legal. Anything not specifically
outlawed is legal.

Yes and no. The LAW defines what is legal and what is illegal.
Without the LAW specifically covering it, it is neither legal nor
illegal.

By the way the Radio Club of America DID exist in 1911.

The radio regulations came later.

Of course. 1912. But the implication of the "1961 Poll" is rather
obvious to tout CW (on-off keying). Especially considering the
source of that posting.

1961 was 43 years ago. Times change. Technology changes.

There was NO personal computer in 1961 except for a few with
lots and lots of money. Very few. In 2003 one family in five in the
USA had some kind of Internet access...that makes it roughly
60 million folks a year ago. One out of three USA citizens has a
cell phone subscription now, or roughly 100 million of those.

We can mumble all sorts of things about the PAST, but that is just
mumbling, having little relevance to the present and future.

In article . net, Len Over 21
writes:

In article . net, robert
casey writes:

Without a single poll to back me up, the following could be said to
be accurate for 1911:

Any Frequency:
CW: 100% [on-off keying]

Someone inserted a carbon telephone microphone in
the feedline between the transmitter and antenna, and
produced a crude form of AM. Couldn't have been
much power else the mic would have burnt up. These
mics vary in resistance along with the sound they hear.

Yes, yes, yes, good old Reggie Fessenden did it. At least
once with an audience on Christmas Eve, 1906.

NOBODY followed that example. :-)

One correspondent, an obvious fan of Reggie, thinks that "lots
of folks" were doing AM with a special carbon microphone in
series with the antenna lead.

The "lots of folks" were restricted to Fessenden's work group at
one station, perhaps four in all. [see Thomas H. White's early
radio history in the USA papers, a fascinating look at that]

There's nothing in Aitkin's histories (such as "From Syntony to
Spark" to the tome I mentioned earlier) to indicate that anyone
was bothering to emulate Fessenden's method. Lee de Forest
wrote that he was able to do some AM low-power with his
"audions" which surprised some USN radiomen in the NYC area
at the time.

AM was first done on a large scale in WIRED telephony,
specifically for the "carrier" form of multiple circuit transmission
(frequency multiplexing) on a single pair of long-distance wires.
The telephone people were responsible for the upsurge of interest
in "wave filters" and the formulation of the first passive L-C filter
theory. John E. Carson (not the "Tonight" show host) came up
with the first complete mathematical description of AM and FM.

Reggie Fessenden IS responsible for the predecessor to the
"BFO" when he was able to increase the intelligibility of his
detectors by using a very small spark generator loosely coupled
to that detector. Fessenden called it a "heterodyne detector."
When Ed Armstrong invented the modern "superhet" in 1918 he
was mindful of Fessenden's method, so Ed called his system a
super-heterodyne. That's how we got that name as well as the
familiar short term of "superhet."


No, *all* activity on radio was legal. Anything not specifically
outlawed is legal.

Yes and no. The LAW defines what is legal and what is illegal.
Without the LAW specifically covering it, it is neither legal nor
illegal.

That's a philosophical viewpoint on "legality." :-)

English Law recognizes that people do a LOT of things and most
of those are NOT concerned with any law covering it. Attornies
can make very "learned" distinctions on it, but, in the basic terms
of "legal" and "illegal," something not covered by any law simply
IS and is neither legal nor illegal.


1961 was 43 years ago. Times change. Technology changes.

The original posting of the first message in this thread appears
to be nothing more than a refined Troll. :-)

Technology of ALL radio, indeed most of electronics in general has
changed dramatically with the introduction of the Solid State Era.
So has the operating practices over those intervening 43 years.
Radio amateurs have been lagging the practices of the rest of the
radio world since that time despite the protests of the most die-hard
"amateurs are in the cutting edge of technology" advocates. Those
of us who were IN the electronics industry at that time (and before)
were all able to see that. Amateurs who had no news of the rest of
the radio world's advances (except long after the fact) will protest out
of some ignorant pride in their amateurism, but that is necessarily
true. Evidence can be found in the early 1960s ARRL "Handbooks"
compared to the industry publications of that same time.

I have nothing against any hobbyist defending their "turf" in scope of
hobby activities. I DO have much against those hobbyists either
stating that amateur radio hobbyists are "advancing the state of the
art" just by existing or that all regulations should continue to reflect
the PAST in all things regarding amateur radio practices.

Those who wish to constantly re-create or re-enact the past by
becoming the very best morsemen (according to older, outdated
standards) can do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned.
The problem occurs when morsemen get too full of themselves and
try to "run the show" by demanding that all newcomers to amateur
radio MUST pass a telegraphy test in order to obtain an amateur
radio license. These morsemen don't run any show, they are but
participants in the older arts of amateur radio. They aren't role
models of what is good despite their claims of "superiority" in radio.

Steve Robeson K4YZ wrote:

Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/16/2004 7:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


In fact, there was NO ARRL and NONE of the amateur radio
enthusiasts were legal! [NO radio regulating agency active in
the USA in 1911]


And no "Len Anderson" was active in 1911, antagonizing and telling those
radio enthusiasts then (who WERE legal, Lennie...sorry...) how to go about
doing what they were doing.

Lessee, if he was around back then........ He would probably have been
a civil war vet.

And he would have been a member of the Military telegraph service.
Could tell all those radio Ops about real telagraphy.....

hehe, I like that!

- Mike KB3EIA -

FYI: My research shows:
Before 1912, call signs were just made up by the aspiring Amateur and it
wasn't until the Radio Act of 1912 that the first licenses were issued. An
HTML version of Early Radio Laws 4 is on-line. Very interesting reading as
it defines DE, CQ, Operating Procedures, Morse Code of the day, and many Q
Signals we still use. In 1911, Hiram Percy Maxim's assumed call was SNY. In
1912, Irving Vermilya, 1ZE, 6 received Skill Certificate No. 1, thus
considered as the first licensed Amateur Radio Operator. Some sources
indicate the code requirement was 5 wpm (how things go around and come
around - 5 wpm now in the year 2000!!!). Written exams included essay type
questions -- making a diagram of transmitting and receiving apparatus and
how they worked! Also of course International and US Law questions.


--
Caveat Lecter



"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Steve Robeson K4YZ wrote:

Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/16/2004 7:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


In fact, there was NO ARRL and NONE of the amateur radio enthusiasts
were legal! [NO radio regulating agency active in
the USA in 1911]


And no "Len Anderson" was active in 1911, antagonizing and telling
those
radio enthusiasts then (who WERE legal, Lennie...sorry...) how to go
about
doing what they were doing.

Lessee, if he was around back then........ He would probably have been a
civil war vet.

And he would have been a member of the Military telegraph service. Could
tell all those radio Ops about real telagraphy.....

hehe, I like that!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/16/2004 7:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In fact, there was NO ARRL and NONE of the amateur radio
enthusiasts were legal! [NO radio regulating agency active in
the USA in 1911]

And no "Len Anderson" was active in 1911, antagonizing and telling
those
radio enthusiasts then (who WERE legal, Lennie...sorry...) how to go about
doing what they were doing.

Lessee, if he was around back then........ He would probably have been
a civil war vet.

"He" was actually a Korean War veteran, serving actively from 1952 to 1956.

When did Coslo ever serve in ANY military?

And he would have been a member of the Military telegraph service.
Could tell all those radio Ops about real telagraphy.....

For its time, that would be true...but that is supposition by the Avenging
Angle, the hero of "seven hostile actions" along with his lil buddy,
the Amateur Balloonist.

The U.S. Army Signal Corps ran the land force military telegraphy
"service" plus a lot of other communications tasks in the Army. I was
in the Signal Corps, United States Army.

The Morse-Vail Telegraph System debuted in 1844, Baltimore to Washington
DC. The U.S. Civil War did not start until 1861, seventeen years later.
There
was NO "radio" communications until 1896, 52 years after the first Morse-
Vail Telegraph service opened.

hehe, I like that!

Coslo has never served in any military. In fact, he has NOT served in ANY
"radio operator" capacity other than as an AMATEUR, a hobbyist, a
dilletante in the communications world making big noises like he was an
"operator" of high caliber. "High caliber?" No, not even shooting blanks.

It's worse with the Avenging Angle, that obtuse angle (never right), who
never worked any military communications and couldn't even make it to
military pilot despite having (allegedly) a private pilot's license since
before his military service. Wow, talk about losers!

Tsk, tsk. I'm not going to tell you anything about the U.S. Civil War
despite my late father-in-law's personal study of it nor my own reading
of the official histories of the U.S. Army Signal Corps written by the
U.S. Army Times, nor of official documents written by Signalmen of
the U.S. Army in other official and recognized documents. Do not
worry. Depend on the publishers at Newington to tell you ALL about
"radio" (at least that much they care to tell you).

You don't have to pay any attention to REAL radio operators and
maintainers who were in REAL HF worldwide communications as I was
a half century ago...nor of those government and private sector radio
operations where I was also in the following half century. All you need
to know is what Newington cares to tell you and, above all else, love
honor and cherish morse code, that imaginary paragon of "radio
operating skill" among AMATEURS.

Keep all those wonderful skills and operating standards of
amateurism alive and well long past their usefulness so that you will
finally be part of an "in group" of morsemen. Be ready for that "big
one" where you can brag about saving the world through morsemanship.

Now, one last time, how do you "serve" your country in those "other
ways" you claim? Neither you nor the Nun of the Above have answered
that question challenge on your respective claims...

did dit

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/16/2004 7:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In fact, there was NO ARRL and NONE of the amateur radio
enthusiasts were legal! [NO radio regulating agency active in
the USA in 1911]

And no "Len Anderson" was active in 1911, antagonizing and telling

those

radio enthusiasts then (who WERE legal, Lennie...sorry...) how to go about
doing what they were doing.

Lessee, if he was around back then........ He would probably have been
a civil war vet.


"He" was actually a Korean War veteran, serving actively from 1952 to 1956.

When did Coslo ever serve in ANY military?

Coslo has served his country for a lot longer than Lenover21 has then.


And he would have been a member of the Military telegraph service.
Could tell all those radio Ops about real telagraphy.....


For its time, that would be true...but that is supposition by the Avenging
Angle, the hero of "seven hostile actions" along with his lil buddy,
the Amateur Balloonist.

Yeah, supposition it is.

The U.S. Army Signal Corps ran the land force military telegraphy
"service" plus a lot of other communications tasks in the Army. I was
in the Signal Corps, United States Army.

Yeah, like I said....

The Morse-Vail Telegraph System debuted in 1844, Baltimore to Washington
DC. The U.S. Civil War did not start until 1861, seventeen years later.
There
was NO "radio" communications until 1896, 52 years after the first Morse-
Vail Telegraph service opened.

Right, there ya go!......

hehe, I like that!


Coslo has never served in any military. In fact, he has NOT served in ANY
"radio operator" capacity other than as an AMATEUR, a hobbyist, a
dilletante in the communications world making big noises like he was an
"operator" of high caliber. "High caliber?" No, not even shooting blanks.

Hmmm, I guess I touched a nerve. Sorry about that!


It's worse with the Avenging Angle, that obtuse angle (never right), who
never worked any military communications and couldn't even make it to
military pilot despite having (allegedly) a private pilot's license since
before his military service. Wow, talk about losers!

Tsk, tsk. I'm not going to tell you anything about the U.S. Civil War
despite my late father-in-law's personal study of it nor my own reading
of the official histories of the U.S. Army Signal Corps written by the
U.S. Army Times, nor of official documents written by Signalmen of
the U.S. Army in other official and recognized documents.

That's not nice, especially since I enjoy your stories! 8^(


Do not
worry. Depend on the publishers at Newington to tell you ALL about
"radio" (at least that much they care to tell you).

You don't have to pay any attention to REAL radio operators and
maintainers who were in REAL HF worldwide communications as I was
a half century ago...nor of those government and private sector radio
operations where I was also in the following half century. All you need
to know is what Newington cares to tell you and, above all else, love
honor and cherish morse code, that imaginary paragon of "radio
operating skill" among AMATEURS.

Keep all those wonderful skills and operating standards of
amateurism alive and well long past their usefulness so that you will
finally be part of an "in group" of morsemen. Be ready for that "big
one" where you can brag about saving the world through morsemanship.

You attach too much importance to Morse code testing.

Now, one last time, how do you "serve" your country in those "other
ways" you claim? Neither you nor the Nun of the Above have answered
that question challenge on your respective claims...

Suffice it to say that I do, and that I only mention it since you find
it important that I was not a member of the uniformed services. It is
your gauge, not mine.

- Mike KB3EIA -

I think the U.S.A should follow the Switzerland model of compulsary
military service for all males who are fit to serve. Two years of
active service followed by a lifetime of reserve service. Then
everyone can tell war stories.

It fits with the current theme of celebrating diversity and being
inclusive.

I looked at it again today. Whatever I saw in the information the
other day is gone. It's not the least bit interesting.

bb

bb wrote:

I looked at it again today. Whatever I saw in the information the
other day is gone. It's not the least bit interesting.


Brian, won't your new news reader do quotes? I'm confused! (yeah, not
too hard for me to get that way) 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article .com, "bb"
writes:

I think the U.S.A should follow the Switzerland model of compulsary
military service for all males who are fit to serve. Two years of
active service followed by a lifetime of reserve service. Then
everyone can tell war stories.

Sounds like a plan! :-)

That way EVERYONE can be a "veteran of seven hostile actions!"

Whatever they claim MUST be the truth... :-)


It fits with the current theme of celebrating diversity and being
inclusive.

Yes, in the Latin form of "primus inter pares" (first among equals).

[the only Latin oxymoron I'm aware of... :-) ]

All the PCTA are better than anyone else, even among themselves.