Brian wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK
could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no
exams, no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

The thin end of the wedge my boy, thats what it is.

That it is, Sir, that it is...However it's a rusty wedge, becasue
that's been the history of the Amateur Service (at least here in the
Colonies) since the inception of Radio.

Everytime it's been in the best COMMERCIAL interests to do so,
Amateurs were moverd higher and higher up the spectrum until those very
same commercial interests decided they were ready to populate those
same higher bands.

And truth be said, just how much use are we (Amateurs) making of
those bands? There's probably not even 100 guys here in the States
that make use of those bands, and even if the number is 10 times that,
it still doesn't warrant holding them back for development.

Oh, I certainly believe we need to hold some slices open for
Amateur and experimentals, but the bottom line is that it's unrealistic
to expect that that amount of "radio real estate" would be held for our
exclusive use.

73

Steve, K4YZ


Brian

You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP address
range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?

G1LVN wrote:
You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP
address
range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?

I'm not sure if that was meant for me (no attributes), but no Sir,
we certainly don't have to surrender an internet address....We can
create new addresses as the circumstances and technology allow.

The electromagnetic spectrum is a very finite resource, however,
and we'll be hard pressed to defend some of our allocations with as
little use as they are getting.

I can't speak for you fellows on that side of the Atlantic,
however I know that any use of the bands above 2.3Ghz on this side is
very rare. I think we will be lucky to maintain even sharing
arangements in the future, let alone keep exclusive allocations.

73

Steve, K4YZ
Winchester, TN

On 22 Apr 2005 05:06:30 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote:

I know that any use of the bands above 2.3Ghz on this side is
very rare. I think we will be lucky to maintain even sharing
arangements in the future, let alone keep exclusive allocations.

Not so! I've attended several Microwave Update conventions in the USA
and always come away thinking how keen and act

Check the websites of the varous US microwave groups and you'll see
that these bands have lots of activity ... especially up to 10GHz and
increasingly to 47GHz and above.

Try www.ntms.org as a starter!

Peter, G3PHO

G1LVN wrote:
You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP
address
range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?

Are you active on 24GHz?

"bb" wrote:

:
: G1LVN wrote:
: You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP
: address
: range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
: allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?
:
: Are you active on 24GHz?
:

maybe not yet...but he will /M soon enough :-)

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

Brian wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK
could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no
exams, no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

The thin end of the wedge my boy, thats what it is.

That it is, Sir, that it is...However it's a rusty wedge, becasue
that's been the history of the Amateur Service (at least here in the
Colonies) since the inception of Radio.

Everytime it's been in the best COMMERCIAL interests to do so,
Amateurs were moverd higher and higher up the spectrum until those very
same commercial interests decided they were ready to populate those
same higher bands.

And truth be said, just how much use are we (Amateurs) making of
those bands? There's probably not even 100 guys here in the States
that make use of those bands, and even if the number is 10 times that,
it still doesn't warrant holding them back for development.

Oh, I certainly believe we need to hold some slices open for
Amateur and experimentals, but the bottom line is that it's unrealistic
to expect that that amount of "radio real estate" would be held for our
exclusive use.

73

Steve, K4YZ


Well history has revealed that radio amateurs were pushed further up the
frequency scale simply because they (the authorities) thought it was of no
use commercially. Look at Short Wave, it was the radio amateurs who
discovered that one could work the world on short waves. Radio amateurs who
discovered (or was it invented) SSB. Now of course there are fewer things
for us radio amateurs to give the world (for free of course) so our
existance is tolerated. However it looks like that tolerance (at least in
the UK) is about to be curtailed.
Brian

Well history has revealed that radio amateurs were pushed further up
the
frequency scale simply because they (the authorities) thought it was
of no
use commercially. Look at Short Wave, it was the radio amateurs who
discovered that one could work the world on short waves. Radio
amateurs who
discovered (or was it invented) SSB.

I don't know who invented SSB but it was in use for a number of years
commercially before it first appeared in the amateur bands.

Now of course there are fewer things
for us radio amateurs to give the world (for free of course) so our
existance is tolerated. However it looks like that tolerance (at
least in
the UK) is about to be curtailed.
Brian

There's an old adage out there which applies here, "Use it or lose it".
There's no point to complaining about losing allocations if we don't
use them. Which is the case with 24Ghz and we did it to ourselves.

w3rv

wrote


There's an old adage out there which applies here, "Use it or lose it".
There's no point to complaining about losing allocations if we don't
use them. Which is the case with 24Ghz and we did it to ourselves.


§97.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio
service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

.. . . . . (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to
contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

Which is a more valuable "Use" of spectrum.... 5,000 appliances operators on
wall-to-wall Lumbago Nets on 75-meters, or 5 guys designing world-class antennas
and low-noise preamps in order to work the EME path on 24-Ghz?

73, de Hans, K0HB

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote


There's an old adage out there which applies here, "Use it or lose
it".
There's no point to complaining about losing allocations if we
don't
use them. Which is the case with 24Ghz and we did it to ourselves.


=A797.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an
amateur radio
service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following
principles:

. . . . . (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven
ability to
contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

Nice warmy fuzzy regulatory platitude conjured up back when amateur
radio was a major player in what was back then considered the DC to
daylight RF spectrum. Which is obviously no longer the case. Back when
ham radio actually made some noteworthy contributions to the state of
the RF comms arts. When was the last time that happened? 1920?

Which is a more valuable "Use" of spectrum.... 5,000 appliances
operators on
wall-to-wall Lumbago Nets on 75-meters,

No counter, apples and oranges, has nothing to with "use or lose". The
HF ham bands are not under any particular allocation threats today
because (in the U.S) the Verizons, Nextels and (globally) the "public
interest" no longer have big (if any) stakes in the HF spectrum so no
sweat for the GeezerNet allocations. Let 'em roll, nobody cares
including the regulators.

But as has been clearly demonstrated any number of times since WW2 the
ham bands above 50 Mhz have been increasingly threatened species as the
stakes have moved up the spectrum and have grown exponentially to the
point where ham radio is now barely a bit player on frequencies above
470 Mhz. The dumbest strategy we could lean on to our preserve our
allocations is to depend on our long since worn out old 97.1b nonsense
and it's equivalents in the US/UK/EU/ITU etc.

The only real defense we have today for retaining our high bands is
occupancy, the potential for emergency ops and a lot licensed voters
screaming at the regulatory agencies about screwing with our hobby.
Screaming oddly enough seems to work to at least some extent as
witnessed by the impact ham radio had on the recent brawl over BPL/PLC
here in the States.

or 5 guys designing world-class antennas
and low-noise preamps in order to work the EME path on 24-Ghz?

EME has been around since 1947 and nobody has shown a bit of interest
in commercializing it 24 Ghz and otherwise. As you well know nobody
"needs" to use a half million mile bounce path to work down preamp
noise figures on any frequency. =20

=20
73, de Hans, K0HB

w3rv