wrote:
from: K4YZ on Jun 6, 3:00 am

It's ALSO been my position that my comments from the post you
continue to inaccurately paraphrase from were that the same spirit of
service that permeates Amateur Radio is part and parcel of the MARS
programs as they are almost completely fleshed out BY licensed,
civilian Amateur Radio operators.

"Completely?" Tsk, tsk. No again.

Lennie...WHY do you insist on obviously misquoting me when you just
cut-and-pasted my LAST comments which were NOT what you tried to cite
as a quote?

MARS was originally begun
as a very small-scale (and low budget) ARMY project back in
1925...(SNIP)

That was EIGHTY years ago, Lennie.

I am talking about MARS in the 21st Century...2005.

(UNSNIP)....more for publicity for the Army than any real radio
improvement...(SNIP)

It wasn't about "publicity". It was about utilizing the assets of
thousands of licensed Amateurs to help a military communications
service that was itself then less than 2 decades old at that time.

(UNSNIP)...(Motorola did more of that in 1940 than any bunch
of amateur volunteers).

Already slapped you around on this one...but hey, hate to miss
another opprotunity to showcase YOUR errors. There was NO company
named "Motorola" in 1940.

USA and USAF combined that activity
after WW2 and gave it the name of MILITARY AFFILIATE Radio
System.

No, actually...It was known as the "Military AMATEUR Radio System"
after WW2. It wasn't until later that the "Amateur" was changed to
"Affiliate".

USN-USMC were last to join MARS in the sixties. If
MARS is "completely fleshed out" by civilian volunteers, why
are there USA and USAF MARS MILITARY Headquarter installations
on MILITARY posts?

I didn't say "completely".

I said "almost".

And those posts are on military posts for the same reason HQ
CAP-USAF is on a military "post"...The military is in control of the
program, it's "civilian" nature notwithstanding.

However just like CAP, if MARS's civilian volunteers take a hike,
the program is kaput.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

No Army experiment in 1925 and there never would have been a
MARS. Sorry, you lost.

How can I "lose" something YOU don't have correct, Lennie...?!?!

I have NEVER, not ONCE, questioned the origins of the MARS program.

You are ONLY correct that had the Army not initiated the program
in 1925, that MARS today would likely not exist today...

However it DOES exist, but as a totally different entity than the
one started in 1925.

The roots of the program are 80 years old. However the leaves
that bloom today ARE today's products...not those of 80 years ago.

MARS is NOT a player in any of the
worldwide U.S. military tactical communications networks.

Who said it was? MY comments have been about MARS's modern day
role as it pertains to it's Amateur Radio membership, emergency
communications, etc.

It seems to me that you are seriously lacking in a real-world,
modern day understanding of what MARS is TODAY...

You can obviously quote from the manuals OK, but have NO
understanding of what the words mean.

Time to move forward, Lennie...with the rest of us...

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:

I didn't say "completely".

I said "almost".

You said "completely" for the longest time until my undeniable
assertions caused you to back down.

From: "bb" on Wed 8 Jun 2005 15:50


K4YZ wrote:
QUOTE from Chief Army MARS:

MARS has grown in all of the services throughout the world. It relies
on civilian and military MARS members to be available in case of
emergency or disaster to provide communications support. At such times,
MARS needs all of the support it can provide. Amateur Radio,
collectively with MARS, has made its mark in American history. Each
year provides new evidence of the important role it plays in the
service of the nation.

UNQUOTE

Since Lennie only believes that "reality" springs from URL's, he
can go to:

http://www.asc.army.mil/mars/history.htm

Been there, done that. :-)

Been to Fort Huachuca, too, (Hq Army MARS, off to one side of
the Military Intelligence School).


...to get it from the horse's mouth.

Stebie got the wrong end of his "horse" again. Tsk, tsk. :-)

He should have made some kind of remarks about the Buffalo
Soldiers. Fort Huachuca is the original home of them.


Silly Gunny, no one disputes what the Chief of Army MARS has stated.
They only dispute what you claimed, "Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur
Radio." Hi! Hi, hi!!!

Poor Stebie, even more brain-dead than Jim Hampton surmised.

All the fuss and furor over MARS was already done when Stebie's
famous statement ["Sorry, Hans, MARS IS amateur radio"]
was made. Stebie is trying to misdirect by pointing a finger
at "my error." Poor guy doesn't realize that when he points
his finger, four other fingers are pointing at HIM! :-)

Heh heh heh. Stebie CUTS AND PASTES from the government web
sites! [he didn't used to like that!] However, the "statement
of mission" is just worded in glorious self-illumination typical
to ALL unit or political organization statements. Stebie wants
to take all of those absolutely LITERALLY like a good little
soldier. Such shining lights will reflect off the medals he
bought for himself at www.grunt.com or similar. He likes to
soak in that light and pretend being the big hero.

MARS is doing an okay job for the military. Keeps civilians
occupied through their volunteerism and the military hopes
that will reflect good will towards the military. MARS *was*
good back in the Vietnam War era for phone patches to folks
back home. But...that was THIRTY YEARS AGO! [Vietnam War
ended for the USA in 1975] The U.S. Army even made that direct
statement on the Army's Center for Military History.

MARS is a part of SHARES (SHAred RESources), a loose organization
of 2500 U.S. government HF radio sites. It serves as a good
radio liason to other government agencies now. That has been
demonstrated in the SHARES/MARS exercises dubbed "Grecian
Firebolt" and has been written up in the Army Communicator, a
quarterly for Signal personnel (and some contractors). The M in
MARS is definitely MILITARY and the A stands for AFFILIATE and
not "amateur." Army MARS stations are manned by professional
warfighters. Volunteer civilian units can work with those
stations but only under Army control, including operations
outside the ham bands, not inside them.

Does the U.S. military need ham-assisted phone patches now?
Rarely. With the expansion of the DSN and the Internet, troops
in Afghanistan and Iraq can communicate with home directly
through many of the personal computers fielded in quantity in
both places...and found on larger warships...and certainly
found on nearly every military post today. In many cases
the military makes actual telephones available for direct
talking to family and friends back home...through the DSN,
through the Internet via VoIP. Such MARS activities are
good for troop morale.

MARS was never designed/implemented/devised to be a PART of
mainstream military communications. It isn't now. The U.S.
military long ago organized their communications through
planning and adapting and reformulating networks, systems,
equipment to handle all the Command-Control-Communications
(the first three Cs of "C4I") they need. That works. It has
always worked. Been there, done that...even controlled the
transmitter that FEC MARS used (on a third-priority term),
one out of three dozen used for the REAL communications.

All of the above I wrote today has been written by me in here
before. Apparently Stebie is way too selective in what he
looks for on Google searching. :-)

[Stebie is now going to compose a "YOU LIE, YOU LIE!" message]

Screum.

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: Fritz Wuehler on Jun 8, 2:44 pm

"K4YZ" wrote:

wrote:
from: K4YZ on Jun 6, 3:00 am


"Completely?" Tsk, tsk. No again. MARS was originally begun
as a very small-scale (and low budget) ARMY project back in
1925...more for publicity for the Army than any real radio
improvement (Motorola did more of that in 1940 than any bunch
of amateur volunteers).

I am wondering how THAT happened, Lennie.

There was NO company named "Motorola" until 1947.

Until then, "Motorola" was just the model name for car radios...No
company...

So...how did "Motorola" do anything for Army communications in
1940...?!?!

More lies, Nursie? Where's your documentation?

Fritz, this self-styled "radio history expert" doesn't have much
in the way of documentation for anything.

Sure I do.

Galvin Manufacturing Co. changed its corporate title to
MOTOROLA in 1947.

And there's the acknowledgement of it.

Some wordplay on corporate identities is to be expected since
Stebie da Wundermarine can't really top those of us who have
been IN radio and electronics longer than he has been alive.

The "wordplay" was yours, Lennie.

And regardless of when I was born, I can read.

YOU said "Motorola" was doing all these great things for the Army
in "1940".

"Motorola" was the name of a radio...not the name of a
company...in 1940.

Details, Lennie....Facts....

His attempts at wordplay using (to him) foreign phrases do
not work well, especially when he misspells the French "nes pas"
as "nes pax" (exchaning a French word with Spanish word for
"peace"). He does not recognize peace. A pun that is not,
as Yoda might say.

Guess that had something to do with the "S" and "X" key being one
over the other, Lennie...Oooops.

Of course we all KNOW that YOU don't make typos!
(yeahrightgigglegiggle)

He should eat his gefilte fish and latkes in hopes that his
digestion might improve by not shouting PUTZ! at his "enemies"
so much. Kosher he is not. Oy, gevalt.

You aren't my enemy, Lennie. You don't have what it takes.



Steve, K4YZ