Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
John Smith wrote:

Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.


Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

But looikg ahead I ask why you seem to expect that Tech are interested
in the same things (contesting) as you are.

I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting
more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some
would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed
hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about
16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts.

That the numbers will be lobesided is obvious Tech as a class less
experncedoperators and likely to have less time in etc. therefore they
are likely to have stations less well equiped.

I will now add some coment of MY thoughts and experences

Frankly contest opperating has little appleal to me, I do Field Day
fairly often which kida exhausts my level of interest in contesting

Further I rarely hear of VHFor UHF contest till about a week after they
happen

Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable

Now where is this from? Not capple? well I am not (5 years of trying
for a Novice license in the 70's basicaly convinced me, maybe if I
beged for enough accomdation I could manage a receieve only test by why
should I?)


But No one is arguing that Tech can't learn code, some do and some will
even after the code test is history, It is a burden that isn't waranted
by the value of Morse Code

of passing code. In the long term, that is an approach that harms amateur
radio. Even if the code test is someday eliminated, it is wrong to gain
support for it by convincing people that they are not capable of passing it.

Red herring

This can and will prevent people from attempting to pursue learning this
aspect of ham radio.

Personally I hope so as I believe it is a mode that should be laid to
rest

Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to

Why? and what is your point, since noone but you is saying that techs
can't

master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required
one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should
encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem.
Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because
some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining

And some folks are 5 years taking a test a every week or two and
practiceing half and per day 5 days a week (study hall) did not mange
it isn't likely any levl of effort would achieve results today

this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their
prejudices. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their
objectives.

Frankly doesn't look like you are reading closely


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
John Smith wrote:

Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint
of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.


Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

But looikg ahead I ask why you seem to expect that Tech are interested
in the same things (contesting) as you are.

I expect some percentage will be not all. Just as there is only a small
percentage of Generals, Advanced, and Extras who are interested in
contesting. However one would expect the largest group of licensees to be
the largest group represented in the frequency bands where that group has
full privileges.


I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting
more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some
would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed
hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about
16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts.

That the numbers will be lobesided is obvious Tech as a class less
experncedoperators and likely to have less time in etc. therefore they
are likely to have stations less well equiped.


But according to some, they have been "trapped" for years and have had
plenty of time to gain experience and equipment.

I will now add some coment of MY thoughts and experences

Frankly contest opperating has little appleal to me, I do Field Day
fairly often which kida exhausts my level of interest in contesting


No problem. It's not for everyone.

Further I rarely hear of VHFor UHF contest till about a week after they
happen

That's simply because you are not interested in contests. Again not a
problem. For those who are interested, they are published well in advance
on various websites.


Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not
capable

Now where is this from? Not capple? well I am not (5 years of trying
for a Novice license in the 70's basicaly convinced me, maybe if I
beged for enough accomdation I could manage a receieve only test by why
should I?)


That basically proves my subsequent arguments that you have been incorrectly
convinced you are not capable. It is dependent on the training approach.
Way too many people have been subjected to incorrect training methods and/or
poor teachers.


But No one is arguing that Tech can't learn code, some do and some will
even after the code test is history, It is a burden that isn't waranted
by the value of Morse Code


That's a matter of opinion only. However if the majority of hams
EXPERIENCED in the mode were to support dropping it, I would accept that.
It is only objectionable when the inexperienced try to rationalize why it
should be dropped.

of passing code. In the long term, that is an approach that harms
amateur
radio. Even if the code test is someday eliminated, it is wrong to gain
support for it by convincing people that they are not capable of passing
it.

Red herring


Not hardly. It is always harmful to convince people that they are
incapable.

This can and will prevent people from attempting to pursue learning this
aspect of ham radio.

Personally I hope so as I believe it is a mode that should be laid to
rest

What harm to you is there is those who like it continue to operate it? This
is very much a "sour grapes" type of thinking.


Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY
to

Why? and what is your point, since noone but you is saying that techs
can't


I have always said that they can learn it. Just check the archives. It has
not been me saying they aren't capable.

We should encourage people to believe in themselves so that they can be the
best they can be regardless of whether it is ham radio or something else.

master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required
one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should
encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self
esteem.
Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped
because
some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining

And some folks are 5 years taking a test a every week or two and
practiceing half and per day 5 days a week (study hall) did not mange
it isn't likely any levl of effort would achieve results today


Wrong training method and/or bad teacher. It is as simple as that. Correct
training methods and a proper teacher do produce results.

this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their
prejudices. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their
objectives.

Frankly doesn't look like you are reading closely


I'm reading very closely. It is those who advocate the removal of the test
who promulgate the concept that some people "can't" learn code. If they
would just be honest and say they don't want to learn the code, I'd respect
that but not agree with dropping it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE