Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting
more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some
would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed
hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about
16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts.

Most Technicians are doing exactly what they want. Some are satisfied
with getting on the local repeater, some are helping with public service
and event support, which again is either 2m simplex or repeater work.

Those who want to upgrade, do upgrade.

Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable
of passing code.

Frankly I doubt too many Techs are convinced by that sort of argument.

The only people (with one exception) who are trapped are those who for
some reason allow themselves to be. The exception is those very, very
few who for some reason are truly incapable. BUt that number is
vanishingly small.



Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to
master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required
one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should
encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem.



Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because
some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining
this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their
prejudices.

Some people cannot pass the written tests either. Does not being able
to pass the General test also trap you above 30 MHz? Not passing the
Extra trap you out of the Extra segments?

Does not being able to pass the Technician test trap you out of Amateur
radio? If I don't want to learn the satellite operation questions, is
that an unfair thing, and should those questions be removed so I don't
have to learn the answers to those questions?

Those who would have the Technicians be the "oppressed victims" do hate
those questions.

They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their
objectives.

Correct! If a person hates Morse code, that is fine. It's a free
country. But The concept of people being "trapped" above 30 MHz is a
sympathy ploy that has no relation to the reality of people wanting more
priveliges, and doing what is needed to get them.

I had some people telling me to wait to get my General, because the
Morse code requirement is going away "any day now". That was in 1999.
Just about 6 years ago. I guess it was a good thing I didn't listen to
them! 8^)

But that is the tale I give the new guys who are interested in
upgrading. Don't wait. Learn what you need to learn. If the requirement
goes away, all you will have lost is the time spent learning Morse, and
you will have traded that time for some skill and knowledge. Then I ask
if 6 years of not being on HF is worth *not* learning Morse code.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting
more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some
would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed
hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about
16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts.

Most Technicians are doing exactly what they want. Some are satisfied
with getting on the local repeater, some are helping with public service
and event support, which again is either 2m simplex or repeater work.

Those who want to upgrade, do upgrade.

Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable
of passing code.

Frankly I doubt too many Techs are convinced by that sort of argument.

The only people (with one exception) who are trapped are those who for
some reason allow themselves to be. The exception is those very, very
few who for some reason are truly incapable. BUt that number is
vanishingly small.



Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to
master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required
one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should
encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem.



Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because
some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining
this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their
prejudices.

Some people cannot pass the written tests either. Does not being able
to pass the General test also trap you above 30 MHz? Not passing the
Extra trap you out of the Extra segments?

Does not being able to pass the Technician test trap you out of Amateur
radio? If I don't want to learn the satellite operation questions, is
that an unfair thing, and should those questions be removed so I don't
have to learn the answers to those questions?

But your analogy is false if you don't wish to learn about satelite
operation then don't it will not keep you from passing the test.
Perfect score is NOT required in order to pass

I don't claim to have plotted it but I beleive you even choose not to
learn the rules of the ARS and still pass the test. ( not that I would
recmend such a course)

Futher No one has suggested removing from the question pools all
content regarding Morse Encoded CW, but the current state of affairs
make Morse encoded CW more important than all of the rest of Ham radio,
something that is clearly not the case and unfairly enhances the
previldges of those to whom it comes more easily

An alterenitve would of course be to discuss wether or not the ARS
would be better off with a fee based license sructure, with the fees
reservsed for ARS enforcement. Not sure I endorse the idea fully but I
do think it has enough merit to discuss, or even asome from of mixed
system of fees or tests and fees or just tests with the pathways
choosen by each of us I think that has ral merit but I doubt the FCC
would ever go for it,

But it does seem forbidden to even discuss something like that


Those who would have the Technicians be the "oppressed victims" do hate
those questions.

They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their
objectives.

Correct! If a person hates Morse code, that is fine. It's a free
country. But The concept of people being "trapped" above 30 MHz is a
sympathy ploy that has no relation to the reality of people wanting more
priveliges, and doing what is needed to get them.

false again. it is not a matter of sympathy but of law, the
constitution, rights, all those little thing that get in the of petty
(or grand) tyrants


I had some people telling me to wait to get my General, because the
Morse code requirement is going away "any day now". That was in 1999.
Just about 6 years ago. I guess it was a good thing I didn't listen to
them! 8^)

But that is the tale I give the new guys who are interested in
upgrading. Don't wait. Learn what you need to learn. If the requirement
goes away, all you will have lost is the time spent learning Morse, and
you will have traded that time for some skill and knowledge. Then I ask
if 6 years of not being on HF is worth *not* learning Morse code.

Certainly is I spent 5 years on it that was a waste and in those it
kept you off HF and VHF and.... I traded my time for nothing

Indeed the Tale I tell is decide if you want HF, and then give morse
code a try, and if you try good luck with it, but please don't let
yourself get down about it.


- Mike KB3EIA -

an_old_friend wrote:

Michael Coslo wrote:

Dee Flint wrote:

"bb" wrote in message
groups.com...


K4YZ wrote:


bb wrote:


John Smith wrote:



Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.


I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting
more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some
would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed
hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about
16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts.

Most Technicians are doing exactly what they want. Some are satisfied
with getting on the local repeater, some are helping with public service
and event support, which again is either 2m simplex or repeater work.

Those who want to upgrade, do upgrade.


Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable
of passing code.

Frankly I doubt too many Techs are convinced by that sort of argument.

The only people (with one exception) who are trapped are those who for
some reason allow themselves to be. The exception is those very, very
few who for some reason are truly incapable. BUt that number is
vanishingly small.




Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to
master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required
one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should
encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem.



Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because
some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining
this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their
prejudices.

Some people cannot pass the written tests either. Does not being able
to pass the General test also trap you above 30 MHz? Not passing the
Extra trap you out of the Extra segments?

Does not being able to pass the Technician test trap you out of Amateur
radio? If I don't want to learn the satellite operation questions, is
that an unfair thing, and should those questions be removed so I don't
have to learn the answers to those questions?


But your analogy is false if you don't wish to learn about satelite
operation then don't it will not keep you from passing the test.
Perfect score is NOT required in order to pass

Analogys are never perfect. But as it goes, we are not allowed to pick
and choose what we need to learn to get the license. If we want the
license, we have to learn what is required.



I don't claim to have plotted it but I beleive you even choose not to
learn the rules of the ARS and still pass the test. ( not that I would
recmend such a course)

Futher No one has suggested removing from the question pools all
content regarding Morse Encoded CW, but the current state of affairs
make Morse encoded CW more important than all of the rest of Ham radio,
something that is clearly not the case and unfairly enhances the
previldges of those to whom it comes more easily

An alterenitve would of course be to discuss wether or not the ARS
would be better off with a fee based license sructure, with the fees
reservsed for ARS enforcement. Not sure I endorse the idea fully but I
do think it has enough merit to discuss, or even asome from of mixed
system of fees or tests and fees or just tests with the pathways
choosen by each of us I think that has ral merit but I doubt the FCC
would ever go for it,

But it does seem forbidden to even discuss something like that


Those who would have the Technicians be the "oppressed victims" do hate
those questions.


They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their
objectives.

Correct! If a person hates Morse code, that is fine. It's a free
country. But The concept of people being "trapped" above 30 MHz is a
sympathy ploy that has no relation to the reality of people wanting more
priveliges, and doing what is needed to get them.


false again. it is not a matter of sympathy but of law, the
constitution, rights, all those little thing that get in the of petty
(or grand) tyrants

Out of context, and incorrect. No one is trapped.

I had some people telling me to wait to get my General, because the
Morse code requirement is going away "any day now". That was in 1999.
Just about 6 years ago. I guess it was a good thing I didn't listen to
them! 8^)

But that is the tale I give the new guys who are interested in
upgrading. Don't wait. Learn what you need to learn. If the requirement
goes away, all you will have lost is the time spent learning Morse, and
you will have traded that time for some skill and knowledge. Then I ask
if 6 years of not being on HF is worth *not* learning Morse code.


Certainly is I spent 5 years on it that was a waste and in those it
kept you off HF and VHF and.... I traded my time for nothing

Indeed the Tale I tell is decide if you want HF, and then give morse
code a try, and if you try good luck with it, but please don't let
yourself get down about it.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is
seeking a like response.

Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint
of No Code Techs.

Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as
well.

Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of
them right here on RRAP.

Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs
when the answer is so plainly visible.

bb wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is
seeking a like response.

The simple answer to your suggestion that the NCT's have all been
chased away is that they've NOT been all chased away.

Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint
of No Code Techs.

I again insist that this must be a North of the Mason-Dixon line
issue. No such "negative viewpoint" exists here.

Maybe because we go out of the way to include them?

Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as
well.

Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of
them right here on RRAP.

Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs
when the answer is so plainly visible.

No, it's not.

You insist it's happened. I say it hasn't.

Even casual observation reveals that's not an accurate assessment.
Again I acknowledge that that is probably a regional experience.

Why do you continue to defame the character of a deceased honest
man?

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is
seeking a like response.
break

The simple answer to your suggestion that the NCT's have all been
chased away is that they've NOT been all chased away.

Not all indeed but most


Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint
of No Code Techs.

I again insist that this must be a North of the Mason-Dixon line
issue. No such "negative viewpoint" exists here.

It exists right here and in your person. If they dare to assert that
they have rights at all, if they are good little code ******s and mind
Massa Rober Son

Maybe because we go out of the way to include them?

You don't


Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as
well.

Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of
them right here on RRAP.

Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs
when the answer is so plainly visible.

No, it's not.

You insist it's happened. I say it hasn't.

Even casual observation reveals that's not an accurate assessment.
Again I acknowledge that that is probably a regional experience.

Why do you continue to defame the character of a deceased honest
man?

Who is Being defamed?

Can dish it out but can't take it Stevie boy desendant of thieves


Steve, K4YZ

an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is
seeking a like response.
break

The simple answer to your suggestion that the NCT's have all been
chased away is that they've NOT been all chased away.

Not all indeed but most

Steve thinks in absolutes.

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Michael Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint
of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is
seeking a like response.


Again you read in what is not there.

Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint
of No Code Techs.


You read in what is not there. If you had been around for a while, you
would know that I have repeatedly expressed positive viewpoints of the no
code Techs. There are many of them who are heavily involved in the club to
which I belong and contribute a great deal to our club. Several of our
officers are no code Techs. Our satellite guru was a no code Tech until he
took time out to upgrade. Many of our no code Techs are johnny on the spot
in supporting public service events. Several becames ham solely because
they were interested in this aspect of ham radio. None of them are whining
about how tough it is to learn the code. Many of our public service people
have no interest in upgrading and that's no problem. We do not push them to
do so as they are getting what they want out of ham radio. Those who wish
to upgrade get our full support and help.

Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as
well.


No they express disdain only for the whiners.


Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of
them right here on RRAP.


Again it is only the whiners that get their hackles up not the no code Techs
in general.

Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs
when the answer is so plainly visible.


It is not at all "so plainly visible". All of us have reached out to those
who wanted/needed help to upgrade. Unfortunately all of us have experienced
those "know it all" individuals who think they know more than the
experienced amateurs.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Michael Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:

John Smith wrote:


Len:

Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint
of
heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women,
children, small animals and gays)...

And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs.

Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?!

You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact,
untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question?

I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They
weren't lost..knew right where they were.

Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are
All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain
as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo.



Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question.

Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line
with other people's prejudices.

Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is
seeking a like response.


Again you read in what is not there.

Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint
of No Code Techs.


You read in what is not there. If you had been around for a while, you
would know that I have repeatedly expressed positive viewpoints of the no
code Techs. There are many of them who are heavily involved in the club to
which I belong and contribute a great deal to our club. Several of our
officers are no code Techs. Our satellite guru was a no code Tech until he
took time out to upgrade. Many of our no code Techs are johnny on the spot
in supporting public service events. Several becames ham solely because
they were interested in this aspect of ham radio. None of them are whining
about how tough it is to learn the code. Many of our public service people
have no interest in upgrading and that's no problem. We do not push them to
do so as they are getting what they want out of ham radio. Those who wish
to upgrade get our full support and help.

Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as
well.


No they express disdain only for the whiners.


Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of
them right here on RRAP.


Again it is only the whiners that get their hackles up not the no code Techs
in general.


break
Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs
when the answer is so plainly visible.


It is not at all "so plainly visible". All of us have reached out to those
who wanted/needed help to upgrade. Unfortunately all of us have experienced
those "know it all" individuals who think they know more than the
experienced amateurs.

It certainly does many of the techs get tired of being told how we NED
to upgrade, just at at your own words.

My first contact from the ARRL was a letter telling me how I needed to
upgrade

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

It certainly does many of the techs get tired of being told how we NED
to upgrade, just at at your own words.


Nope, never told anyone that they need to upgrade just for upgrading's sake.
I have however helped them learn what privileges are available should they
choose to do so.

My first contact from the ARRL was a letter telling me how I needed to
upgrade

Never received such a letter myself and do not know its content so cannot
comment on it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE