I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of techs is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some point I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:
http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of techs is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some point I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:
http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

old friend:

Well, I am a bit suspicious if my gov't is not worried about people here
firing up a rig and sending encoded text and documents to other
countries.

And, it has been my experience that if you are willing to give up rights
there will be no end to those taking them away.

However, I'd love to see that VHF rig you fire up to chat with the
Antarctica or the aussies on a reg basis with the sun spot cycle...
well, there is always moon bounce and the internet...

John

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF
etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of techs
is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some point
I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and
they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:
http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

Taking HF away from the ARS is not going to stop that or even affect it

it s howver VHF and UHF that comercail interest are interested in they
don't seem to want hf with its interesting varriations
John Smith wrote:
old friend:

Well, I am a bit suspicious if my gov't is not worried about people here
firing up a rig and sending encoded text and documents to other
countries.

And, it has been my experience that if you are willing to give up rights
there will be no end to those taking them away.

Which has wht to do with the topic

However, I'd love to see that VHF rig you fire up to chat with the
Antarctica or the aussies on a reg basis with the sun spot cycle...
well, there is always moon bounce and the internet...

John

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF
etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of techs
is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some point
I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and
they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:
http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

Our opinions differ, we shall now watch the future for the real
answer...

John

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Taking HF away from the ARS is not going to stop that or even affect
it

it s howver VHF and UHF that comercail interest are interested in they
don't seem to want hf with its interesting varriations
John Smith wrote:
old friend:

Well, I am a bit suspicious if my gov't is not worried about people
here
firing up a rig and sending encoded text and documents to other
countries.

And, it has been my experience that if you are willing to give up
rights
there will be no end to those taking them away.

Which has wht to do with the topic

However, I'd love to see that VHF rig you fire up to chat with the
Antarctica or the aussies on a reg basis with the sun spot cycle...
well, there is always moon bounce and the internet...

John

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF
etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that
HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of
techs
is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some
point
I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and
they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the
bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:
http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

The HF bands are, many times, international in scope. This story is not
about the FCC, it is about international agreements.

What is said in the story is true; many 3rd world countries would love 80
meters as it would provide cheap communications (they don't have to pay to
build all the infrastructure of a telephone system to cover their country).
If the world community decides that 80/75 meters is to no longer be an
amateur allocations, the FCC will have nothing to say about it.

If you look at cell phones, you might get an idea of the extent of the
problem. In developed countries, cell phones have become big business. In
the U.S., every teenager "needs" one. It takes a lot of cell phone towers
to provide service, not to mention ever increasing needs of frequencies.

I believe that when I was first licensed (in 1962) amateurs could use any
frequency above 30 GHz. There was little gear that could function at all at
that frequency and dx records could be measured in yards or a few miles.
Nowadays, there are some amateur bands intermingled with other segments
going up to 300 GHz, at which point amateurs can use anything above 300 GHz.
300 GHz in far infra-red light!

Somehow, communications devices are going to have to become more efficient
at using available frequencies (amateurs included). Even assuming they do
(and they have become more band-width friendly), there will be pressure on
all users to use it (effectively) or loose it.

As to the FCC, they can easily reassign users at VHF and above as it doesn't
carry world-wide. Those segments are also in jeopardy by big business.
Note that the Supreme Court ruled that local governments can exercise their
right to take property (with compensation to the owners) and sell it to
someone else.

Big business and the Republicans rule.

Next time be careful of who you vote for.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of techs is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some point I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:

http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

Jim Hampton wrote:
The HF bands are, many times, international in scope. This story is not
about the FCC, it is about international agreements.

What is said in the story is true; many 3rd world countries would love 80
meters as it would provide cheap communications (they don't have to pay to
build all the infrastructure of a telephone system to cover their country).
If the world community decides that 80/75 meters is to no longer be an
amateur allocations, the FCC will have nothing to say about it.

If the world decides and we decide to go along with it and...

If you look at cell phones, you might get an idea of the extent of the
problem. In developed countries, cell phones have become big business. In
the U.S., every teenager "needs" one. It takes a lot of cell phone towers
to provide service, not to mention ever increasing needs of frequencies.

I believe that when I was first licensed (in 1962) amateurs could use any
frequency above 30 GHz. There was little gear that could function at all at
that frequency and dx records could be measured in yards or a few miles.
Nowadays, there are some amateur bands intermingled with other segments
going up to 300 GHz, at which point amateurs can use anything above 300 GHz.
300 GHz in far infra-red light!

Somehow, communications devices are going to have to become more efficient
at using available frequencies (amateurs included). Even assuming they do
(and they have become more band-width friendly), there will be pressure on
all users to use it (effectively) or loose it.

agreed which is agood resaon to stopp using Morse code and realy use HF

As to the FCC, they can easily reassign users at VHF and above as it doesn't
carry world-wide. Those segments are also in jeopardy by big business.
Note that the Supreme Court ruled that local governments can exercise their
right to take property (with compensation to the owners) and sell it to
someone else.

Big business and the Republicans rule.

Next time be careful of who you vote for.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of techs is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some point I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:

http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...


Jim Hampton wrote:
The HF bands are, many times, international in scope. This story is not
about the FCC, it is about international agreements.

What is said in the story is true; many 3rd world countries would love
80
meters as it would provide cheap communications (they don't have to pay
to
build all the infrastructure of a telephone system to cover their
country).
If the world community decides that 80/75 meters is to no longer be an
amateur allocations, the FCC will have nothing to say about it.

If the world decides and we decide to go along with it and...

If you look at cell phones, you might get an idea of the extent of the
problem. In developed countries, cell phones have become big business.
In
the U.S., every teenager "needs" one. It takes a lot of cell phone
towers
to provide service, not to mention ever increasing needs of frequencies.

I believe that when I was first licensed (in 1962) amateurs could use
any
frequency above 30 GHz. There was little gear that could function at
all at
that frequency and dx records could be measured in yards or a few miles.
Nowadays, there are some amateur bands intermingled with other segments
going up to 300 GHz, at which point amateurs can use anything above 300
GHz.
300 GHz in far infra-red light!

Somehow, communications devices are going to have to become more
efficient
at using available frequencies (amateurs included). Even assuming they
do
(and they have become more band-width friendly), there will be pressure
on
all users to use it (effectively) or loose it.

agreed which is agood resaon to stopp using Morse code and realy use HF

As to the FCC, they can easily reassign users at VHF and above as it
doesn't
carry world-wide. Those segments are also in jeopardy by big business.
Note that the Supreme Court ruled that local governments can exercise
their
right to take property (with compensation to the owners) and sell it to
someone else.

Big business and the Republicans rule.

Next time be careful of who you vote for.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF
etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that
HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of
techs is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some
point I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and
they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:


http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John



Other than PSK-31, name me a mode that takes less bandwidth than Morse code.

The silence is deafening.

Morse is very spectrum efficient; it only uses perhaps 100 Hertz (200 with
harsher keying to accommodate high speeds). SSB occupies up to 3,000 Hz,
enough room to accommodate 30 Morse QSOs. AM occupies more than twice the
space of SSB. FM occupies even more (which is why it is restricted to the
upper portion of 10 meters and VHF and above).

Your point about the world and "if the FCC decides to go along with it" has
no bearing. The FCC will have *nothing* to say about world-wide allocations
on HF and below. The United States is but one voice of many. Majority rule
s. The FCC can hand out authorizations based upon the framework of the
world agreements, but they can't step outside of that framework. Should the
world take away the 75/80 meter amateur allocation, the FCC could *not*
allocate those frequencies to American hams.

Of course, if you are a die-hard Republican, you either won't or can't
understand that concept. The spectrum below 30 MHz is decided between many
countries.

Unless, of course, those countries are hiding all those weapons of mass
destruction )) In that case, maybe we could get involved in a 10 or 20
year war. Good for business, I guess.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Jim:

Yes, you touch on globalization and "one world order" and/or "new order"
(hey, wasn't that a phrase invented by Adolph Hitler's klick?)

Seems like a little more thought on "sovereign nation" and just exactly
what that is might be to our best interest.

Also, seems with each passing day "they" are anxious to give us reasons
why we should lose respect for gov't and authority and, the effects of
this are rather frightening--it even touches my neighborhood--a place
which was once safe and secure.

I can hardly see how this is not having an effect on this great
hobby--amateur radio is not an isolated island.

John

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
The HF bands are, many times, international in scope. This story is
not
about the FCC, it is about international agreements.

What is said in the story is true; many 3rd world countries would love
80
meters as it would provide cheap communications (they don't have to
pay to
build all the infrastructure of a telephone system to cover their
country).
If the world community decides that 80/75 meters is to no longer be an
amateur allocations, the FCC will have nothing to say about it.

If you look at cell phones, you might get an idea of the extent of the
problem. In developed countries, cell phones have become big
business. In
the U.S., every teenager "needs" one. It takes a lot of cell phone
towers
to provide service, not to mention ever increasing needs of
frequencies.

I believe that when I was first licensed (in 1962) amateurs could use
any
frequency above 30 GHz. There was little gear that could function at
all at
that frequency and dx records could be measured in yards or a few
miles.
Nowadays, there are some amateur bands intermingled with other
segments
going up to 300 GHz, at which point amateurs can use anything above
300 GHz.
300 GHz in far infra-red light!

Somehow, communications devices are going to have to become more
efficient
at using available frequencies (amateurs included). Even assuming
they do
(and they have become more band-width friendly), there will be
pressure on
all users to use it (effectively) or loose it.

As to the FCC, they can easily reassign users at VHF and above as it
doesn't
carry world-wide. Those segments are also in jeopardy by big
business.
Note that the Supreme Court ruled that local governments can exercise
their
right to take property (with compensation to the owners) and sell it
to
someone else.

Big business and the Republicans rule.

Next time be careful of who you vote for.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

I doubt it HF is all but useless to the FCC they want peiecs of VHF
etc
John Smith wrote:
I think anyone over-looking the bigger picture has to suspect that
HF
will, rather quickly, be taken from amateurs. The abundance of
techs is
being created to drop the percentage of hams using HF. At some
point I
suspect a "move" will be made on these all important HF bands and
they
will be removed from amateur service.

I suspect that techs account for about 50% of activity on the bands
now--when that reaches 66%, and certainly 75%, I think HF will be
pulled...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:

http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/article...longbeach.html

John

Hello, John

You are correct - HF (and MF) amateur radio is not isolated. Signals cross
international boundaries. As to "sovereign nation, it sounds good and is,
except that what we are discussing crosses international boundaries. The
international agreements will have to happen - or would you prefer that
Radio Moscow rear it's head on a directional array running 5,000,000 watts
in the middle of our AM broadcast band?

VHF and above does not often stray far (although the stuff from 30 MHz to
perhaps a bit above 6 meters can and does at times, especially during the
peak of the sunspot cycle); therefore the FCC is very free to rearrange
things that don't affect satellite transmission/reception.

Heck, when you said "one world order", I thought you were going to mention
our friend, GW


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Jim:

Yes, you touch on globalization and "one world order" and/or "new order"
(hey, wasn't that a phrase invented by Adolph Hitler's klick?)

Seems like a little more thought on "sovereign nation" and just exactly
what that is might be to our best interest.

Also, seems with each passing day "they" are anxious to give us reasons
why we should lose respect for gov't and authority and, the effects of
this are rather frightening--it even touches my neighborhood--a place
which was once safe and secure.

I can hardly see how this is not having an effect on this great
hobby--amateur radio is not an isolated island.

John