"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Observations:

- Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18
proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely
eliminate it.

- There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code
test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping
Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level
classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to
all of them.

- The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term
growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham
licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has
there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code
testing.


Predictions:

- There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will
just dump Element 1 and make no other changes.

Agreed

- There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses.
But not long term growth.

Agreed

- The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity.

MOre activity, but not likely overrun.

- There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought
by the new folks.

No, certainly not brought about by the new folks - as a group. But I don't
doubt that some of the new folks may very well involved.



- The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands
or even having no mode subbands at all.


Yawn! That won't be anywhere near as much fun as the Element 1 debate!

One more thing that will happen, and I hope it doesn't. I anticipate a bit
of class warfare, as (some of) the code tested try to establish
superiority over the great unwashed who enter the ARS.


Let's hope not. A prospective ham can only follow the licensing procedure
in place at the time he/she licenses. The important issue now, as it has
always been, is the post licensing personal development.

Quite frankly, that will make those so called elite a worse problem than
the newbies coming into the service.

Now will be a time for Elmering and openness. I've sat and listened to
enough grumbling about Nickel Extras such as myself, right to my face,
from OT's who haven't done a thing for the service for years, talk about
how "Any idiot can become a Ham now." This happens more often than it
should.


I would've gotten right in their faces and asked them what they had done
lately for ham radio.

I intend to provide as much help to the newcomers as possible, instead of
grousing about the "good old days", and steely eyed F.C.C testing agents.


Yup. There's no point in grousing. Besides one can turn the old
requirements into an icebreaker just by telling the story in a humorous way.

That I support Element 1 testing is of no consequence to the new people.


Absolutely correct. Of course, I'll attempt to foster learning the code and
code use. I'll just tell them about the rare and exotic DX that I've found
only on CW. And how most contests offer extra points for CW.

I suggest that the Ham who wants to be thought of as superior establish
that superiority by example, not by grousing or ridiculing the new folks.
Foster the idea that good manners and technical acumen is a good thing.


That is the only true measure.

Just some thoughts.....

- Mike KB3EIA -


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee:

Oh you and your feminine wiles. I do already hear your "sirens song"
and fear for the lives of those men you will sing of CW to...

Yes, I will bet that you can wreck more than one young man on the
shoals and dangerous reefs of CW.

Me, I will just tell 'em about the rare and luscious females I have
met in obscure and out-of-the-way pubs and the wonders I have beheld
there... grin

.... maybe offer to buy 'em a beer and argue antenna theory with 'em...

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Observations:

- Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18
proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely
eliminate it.

- There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the
code
test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except*
dumping
Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry
level
classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No"
to
all of them.

- The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some
short-term
growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham
licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor
has
there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in
code
testing.


Predictions:

- There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC
will
just dump Element 1 and make no other changes.

Agreed

- There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in
licenses.
But not long term growth.

Agreed

- The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity.

MOre activity, but not likely overrun.

- There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams
brought
by the new folks.

No, certainly not brought about by the new folks - as a group. But
I don't doubt that some of the new folks may very well involved.



- The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone
subbands
or even having no mode subbands at all.


Yawn! That won't be anywhere near as much fun as the Element 1
debate!

One more thing that will happen, and I hope it doesn't. I
anticipate a bit of class warfare, as (some of) the code tested try
to establish superiority over the great unwashed who enter the ARS.


Let's hope not. A prospective ham can only follow the licensing
procedure in place at the time he/she licenses. The important issue
now, as it has always been, is the post licensing personal
development.

Quite frankly, that will make those so called elite a worse problem
than the newbies coming into the service.

Now will be a time for Elmering and openness. I've sat and listened
to enough grumbling about Nickel Extras such as myself, right to my
face, from OT's who haven't done a thing for the service for years,
talk about how "Any idiot can become a Ham now." This happens more
often than it should.


I would've gotten right in their faces and asked them what they had
done lately for ham radio.

I intend to provide as much help to the newcomers as possible,
instead of grousing about the "good old days", and steely eyed
F.C.C testing agents.


Yup. There's no point in grousing. Besides one can turn the old
requirements into an icebreaker just by telling the story in a
humorous way.

That I support Element 1 testing is of no consequence to the new
people.


Absolutely correct. Of course, I'll attempt to foster learning the
code and code use. I'll just tell them about the rare and exotic DX
that I've found only on CW. And how most contests offer extra
points for CW.

I suggest that the Ham who wants to be thought of as superior
establish that superiority by example, not by grousing or
ridiculing the new folks. Foster the idea that good manners and
technical acumen is a good thing.


That is the only true measure.

Just some thoughts.....

- Mike KB3EIA -


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Observations:

- Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18
proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely
eliminate it.

- There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code
test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping
Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level
classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to
all of them.

- The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term
growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham
licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has
there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code
testing.


Predictions:

- There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will
just dump Element 1 and make no other changes.

Agreed

- There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses.
But not long term growth.

Agreed

- The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity.

MOre activity, but not likely overrun.

- There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought
by the new folks.

No, certainly not brought about by the new folks - as a group. But I don't
doubt that some of the new folks may very well involved.



- The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands
or even having no mode subbands at all.


Yawn! That won't be anywhere near as much fun as the Element 1 debate!


break
One more thing that will happen, and I hope it doesn't. I anticipate a bit
of class warfare, as (some of) the code tested try to establish
superiority over the great unwashed who enter the ARS.


Let's hope not. A prospective ham can only follow the licensing procedure
in place at the time he/she licenses. The important issue now, as it has
always been, is the post licensing personal development.

I have no such such hope. Having watched hams compare there tests as
the best and making them better hams for 28 years and still grousing
about every change along the way, I know the Class warfare will
continue




Quite frankly, that will make those so called elite a worse problem than
the newbies coming into the service.

Now will be a time for Elmering and openness. I've sat and listened to
enough grumbling about Nickel Extras such as myself, right to my face,
from OT's who haven't done a thing for the service for years, talk about
how "Any idiot can become a Ham now." This happens more often than it
should.

break

I would've gotten right in their faces and asked them what they had done
lately for ham radio.

Good for you. glad to hear it and pleased be prepared to keep it up


I intend to provide as much help to the newcomers as possible, instead of
grousing about the "good old days", and steely eyed F.C.C testing agents.


Yup. There's no point in grousing. Besides one can turn the old
requirements into an icebreaker just by telling the story in a humorous way.

That I support Element 1 testing is of no consequence to the new people.


Absolutely correct. Of course, I'll attempt to foster learning the code and
code use. I'll just tell them about the rare and exotic DX that I've found
only on CW. And how most contests offer extra points for CW.

good luck on that truely


I suggest that the Ham who wants to be thought of as superior establish
that superiority by example, not by grousing or ridiculing the new folks.
Foster the idea that good manners and technical acumen is a good thing.


That is the only true measure.

Just some thoughts.....

- Mike KB3EIA -


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


wrote:


Observations:

- Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18
proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely
eliminate it.

- There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code
test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping
Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level
classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to
all of them.

- The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term
growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham
licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has
there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code
testing.


Predictions:

- There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will
just dump Element 1 and make no other changes.

Agreed


- There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses.
But not long term growth.

Agreed


- The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity.

MOre activity, but not likely overrun.


- There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought
by the new folks.

No, certainly not brought about by the new folks - as a group. But I don't
doubt that some of the new folks may very well involved.




- The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands
or even having no mode subbands at all.


Yawn! That won't be anywhere near as much fun as the Element 1 debate!

One more thing that will happen, and I hope it doesn't. I anticipate a bit
of class warfare, as (some of) the code tested try to establish
superiority over the great unwashed who enter the ARS.



Let's hope not. A prospective ham can only follow the licensing procedure
in place at the time he/she licenses. The important issue now, as it has
always been, is the post licensing personal development.


Quite frankly, that will make those so called elite a worse problem than
the newbies coming into the service.

Now will be a time for Elmering and openness. I've sat and listened to
enough grumbling about Nickel Extras such as myself, right to my face,
from OT's who haven't done a thing for the service for years, talk about
how "Any idiot can become a Ham now." This happens more often than it
should.



I would've gotten right in their faces and asked them what they had done
lately for ham radio.

Well, my mode of operation is not to get in peoples faces. If someone
does manage to get me mad, we usually have a private talk. Lets them
save face. Usually I just say something like "I resemble that remark!"

I intend to provide as much help to the newcomers as possible, instead of
grousing about the "good old days", and steely eyed F.C.C testing agents.



Yup. There's no point in grousing. Besides one can turn the old
requirements into an icebreaker just by telling the story in a humorous way.


That I support Element 1 testing is of no consequence to the new people.



Absolutely correct. Of course, I'll attempt to foster learning the code and
code use. I'll just tell them about the rare and exotic DX that I've found
only on CW. And how most contests offer extra points for CW.


I suggest that the Ham who wants to be thought of as superior establish
that superiority by example, not by grousing or ridiculing the new folks.
Foster the idea that good manners and technical acumen is a good thing.



That is the only true measure.

Will we measure up?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...



[snip]

Now will be a time for Elmering and openness. I've sat and listened to
enough grumbling about Nickel Extras such as myself, right to my face,
from OT's who haven't done a thing for the service for years, talk about
how "Any idiot can become a Ham now." This happens more often than it
should.



I would've gotten right in their faces and asked them what they had done
lately for ham radio.

Well, my mode of operation is not to get in peoples faces. If someone does
manage to get me mad, we usually have a private talk. Lets them save face.
Usually I just say something like "I resemble that remark!"



Actually Mike, it depends. If they have spoken in private, I speak in
private. If they choose to make a fool of themselves in public, then I'll
help them along and point out that foolishness in public. I've had
experience with people who will deliberately put you down in public based on
the concept that you are too polite to respond in public. I had a former
husband who was like that and I finally had to go ahead and speak out in
public to get him to stop. Chewing him out in private did no good.

[snip]
I suggest that the Ham who wants to be thought of as superior establish
that superiority by example, not by grousing or ridiculing the new folks.
Foster the idea that good manners and technical acumen is a good thing.



That is the only true measure.

Will we measure up?

- Mike KB3EIA -

I hope so. I know both you and I and many others will try.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message

Will we measure up?

- Mike KB3EIA -

I hope so. I know both you and I and many others will try.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



What, exactly, are people supposed to "measure up" to in ham radio? We are
all amateur radio operators. None of us has a thing to prove to the
other--at least not as far as I can see it. We each have our preferences,
etc. I would no more expect anyone to "measure up" to me; than I would have
them expect me to "measure up" to them.

That is a basic fault of amateur radio, I think--the "competitiveness" of
it. I think the minute that limitations are introduced into an environment,
it is set up for such a pitfall--because people cannot generally rise above
it. By the very nature of the licensing structure, ham radio is a
contentious environment.

Anyway, came into this late, and it chaps my hide to see people expecting
others to "measure up" to, what: their importance, or something? I don't
know...maybe I am misunderstanding this one post I've read in this thread.

Kim W5TIT
Not planning on trying to measure up to anything, but my own expectations of
myself.



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"Kim" wrote in message
...
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message

Will we measure up?

- Mike KB3EIA -

I hope so. I know both you and I and many others will try.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



What, exactly, are people supposed to "measure up" to in ham radio? We
are
all amateur radio operators. None of us has a thing to prove to the
other--at least not as far as I can see it. We each have our preferences,
etc. I would no more expect anyone to "measure up" to me; than I would
have
them expect me to "measure up" to them.

That is a basic fault of amateur radio, I think--the "competitiveness" of
it. I think the minute that limitations are introduced into an
environment,
it is set up for such a pitfall--because people cannot generally rise
above
it. By the very nature of the licensing structure, ham radio is a
contentious environment.

Anyway, came into this late, and it chaps my hide to see people expecting
others to "measure up" to, what: their importance, or something? I don't
know...maybe I am misunderstanding this one post I've read in this thread.

Kim W5TIT
Not planning on trying to measure up to anything, but my own expectations
of
myself.



To me it is doing my best to provide a good example and a good Elmer. That
is the standard to which I (and I believe Mike) hope to be able to measure
up to.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Kim wrote:

Anyway, came into this late, and it chaps my hide to see people expecting
others to "measure up" to, what: their importance, or something? I don't
know...maybe I am misunderstanding this one post I've read in this thread.

Don't get chapped Kim! There are a lot of different people in the
world, with all kinds of different ideas on how things "ought to be". My
version of that is that people should have respect for each other, and
be considerate of each other. I also like the concept of bettering ones
self through acquisition of knowledge and skills, and that people should
be an asset to, and to give back to their communities. I'm also aware
that a lot of people think that my ideas are some sort of sugar coated
dreck.

My sole failing is that I get a bit of enjoyment in knowing that that
irritates the crap out of some people for some reason! 8^)

Well okay - its not my only failing. Mr Anderson and Mr Smith can
probably fill you in on the others....

Okay, for them, but I'm not going to change my mind.

Kim W5TIT
Not planning on trying to measure up to anything, but my own expectations of
myself.

We can't really ask for much more!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
news
Kim wrote:

Anyway, came into this late, and it chaps my hide to see people
expecting
others to "measure up" to, what: their importance, or something? I
don't
know...maybe I am misunderstanding this one post I've read in this
thread.

Don't get chapped Kim! There are a lot of different people in the
world, with all kinds of different ideas on how things "ought to be".


I suspect if we continue communicating in the way people usually do on
newsgroups (by responding to previous text), then Little Johnny will get
tired of reading and, well, he just doesn't have time to do it this way

Anyway, absolutel. I wasn't really miffed about the idea of "it takes all
kinds." What gets me is when I am "expected" to live up to something in ham
radio. I took my test(s) to get my license(s). That's it. That's all it
takes. And, I hope that if anyone is perusing the newsgroup, they will get
the idea that they don't have to live up to anything to be an amateur radio
operator. They'll find someone just like them on the air...no doubt.


My version of that is that people should have respect for each other, and
be considerate of each other. I also like the concept of bettering ones
self through acquisition of knowledge and skills, and that people should
be an asset to, and to give back to their communities. I'm also aware
that a lot of people think that my ideas are some sort of sugar coated
dreck.


Yes, I like that idea as well. But, I don't begrudge anyone who'd rather
not and/or who is happy with what they have or where they are. For
instance, IF I ever get back into ham radio (other than just having a
ticket), I am happy enough playing around on VHF, mostly 2-M, mostly voice.
There's lots of us who are and who'll never be much interested in any of the
rest of amateur radio. I've played with other modes and always come back
home to VHF voice. It "angers" me to think of people who expect more than
that. I expect nothing of anyone in, save what you said about just being a
decent person.


My sole failing is that I get a bit of enjoyment in knowing that that
irritates the crap out of some people for some reason! 8^)


Aw, that's not a failing. Think about it: it's mostly a failing of THEIRS
to get irritated.


Well okay - its not my only failing. Mr Anderson and Mr Smith can
probably fill you in on the others....


I won't speak of Len. I think he's a great agitator and I love great
agitators (from an observing perspective, mind you--I can't stand being in
it myself...LOL). "Mr. Smith" is somewhat disturbed and that concerns me.
However, once on guard with someone and I am always pretty much on guard
with that person. I have a feeling he's a bit of a misfit and plays to the
meek minded--no offense to anyone.


Okay, for them, but I'm not going to change my mind.

Kim W5TIT
Not planning on trying to measure up to anything, but my own
expectations of
myself.

We can't really ask for much more!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Well, especially since I really do demand a lot of myself. LOL

Kim W5TIT



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From: "Kim" on Sat 23 Jul 2005 16:11

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
news
Kim wrote:



My sole failing is that I get a bit of enjoyment in knowing that that
irritates the crap out of some people for some reason! 8^)

Aw, that's not a failing. Think about it: it's mostly a failing of THEIRS
to get irritated.

Tsk. Ask the Coslonaut how his "reaching the threshold of space"
project is going. :-)

Well okay - its not my only failing. Mr Anderson and Mr Smith can
probably fill you in on the others....

I won't speak of Len. I think he's a great agitator and I love great
agitators (from an observing perspective, mind you--I can't stand being in
it myself...LOL).

You are IN the agitation tub whenever you post in here...

Agitation is necessary to get the DIRT out. Think of alternate
viewpoints as a kind of "laundry" to get things clean again...

"Mr. Smith" is somewhat disturbed and that concerns me.
However, once on guard with someone and I am always pretty much on guard
with that person. I have a feeling he's a bit of a misfit and plays to the
meek minded--no offense to anyone.

Ahem...what did you say about "agitation" above? :-)

More than likely, "Mr. Smith" is simply observing the scene
and is UNAFRAID to venture a personal opinion on the scene. :-)

Okay, for them, but I'm not going to change my mind.

[ Mike, "we" don't give a damn whether you change or not...]



[a clean nuclear bomb...a detergent weapon...]