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#1
July 22nd 05, 12:22 PM
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Observations and predictions on the NPRM
Observations:
- Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18 proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely eliminate it. - There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to all of them. - The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code testing. Predictions: - There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will just dump Element 1 and make no other changes. - There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses. But not long term growth. - The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity. - There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought by the new folks. - The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands or even having no mode subbands at all. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#2
July 22nd 05, 12:42 PM
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#3
July 22nd 05, 04:03 PM
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#4
July 22nd 05, 05:06 PM
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#6
July 22nd 05, 05:12 PM
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K4YZ wrote: wrote: Observations: - Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18 proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely eliminate it. Amazing, isn't it? why that is the way the system is set up why are you amazed it is being followed They ask for public opinion then say "We'll do what we want anyway..." they have to ask for it so they do you can't make listen to it gorw up and learn how the world works - There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to all of them. They said it in 98...They want to reduce all administrative burden to an absolute minimum... The fewer regulations there are on the books, the less enforcement they have to do. I am surprised they haven't tried to "outsource" their enforcement duties. I do hear rumous they have looked into that - The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code testing. Predictions: - There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will just dump Element 1 and make no other changes. I'm still holding out for 5WPM for Extra, but prudence says you're right. a few sign of light stevie - There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses. But not long term growth. There never has been, there never will be. Reducing testing, either the number of written test or the 13/20WPM Code tests, has not done a thing to move the service forward. esp with attitudes like your it will be hard - The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....For a while there will be...All those new "Generals" will plop down some bucks on HF stations, work some DX, then go back to whining about how tough it is to get to Extra. yea right grow up and drink your sour grapes - There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought by the new folks. They've had their chance since 1991 to do that if they wanted. if they wanted? what have you done to advance the radio in your time as a ham I have tried to add a mode or band or something each year to my operating I have not made it (was just too busy moving and building) but I try you just want to sit back and let "Them" carry the freight - The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands or even having no mode subbands at all. As I was saying in another thread...! been around as long as I have been likely longer 73 Steve, K4YZ |
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#7
July 22nd 05, 05:34 PM
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an_old_friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Observations: - Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18 proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely eliminate it. Amazing, isn't it? why that is the way the system is set up why are you amazed it is being followed It's not being followed if the public says "A" and the government does "B". They ask for public opinion then say "We'll do what we want anyway..." they have to ask for it so they do you can't make listen to it Sure you can. gorw up and learn how the world works Why don't you, Deviant Boy? - There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to all of them. They said it in 98...They want to reduce all administrative burden to an absolute minimum... The fewer regulations there are on the books, the less enforcement they have to do. I am surprised they haven't tried to "outsource" their enforcement duties. I do hear rumous they have looked into that Uh huh. Rumors. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. - The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code testing. Predictions: - There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will just dump Element 1 and make no other changes. I'm still holding out for 5WPM for Extra, but prudence says you're right. a few sign of light stevie - There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses. But not long term growth. There never has been, there never will be. Reducing testing, either the number of written test or the 13/20WPM Code tests, has not done a thing to move the service forward. esp with attitudes like your it will be hard It's not MY attitude that needs to be dealt with, Markie. It's the attitudes of the people who keep making these assinine assertions about how this change or that change is going to be the salvation of the Amateur Radio service. The FCC has said it so many times now they even believe thier own rhetoric and repeat it in this NPRM. - The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....For a while there will be...All those new "Generals" will plop down some bucks on HF stations, work some DX, then go back to whining about how tough it is to get to Extra. yea right It happened with "Novice Enhancement" It happened with the introduction of the NCT. It happened with the last Restructuring round. What makes Deviant Markie even the least bit doubtful that it won't happen THIS time? grow up and drink your sour grapes What sour grapes? It happened. Three times. - There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought by the new folks. They've had their chance since 1991 to do that if they wanted. if they wanted? If they wanted, Markie. W H E R E are all the "engineering types that the NCT was supposed to bring into Amateur Radio? what have you done to advance the radio in your time as a ham A lot more than you, Markie. Starting with being an Elmer and a VE. Add to that ARES, MARS, etc etc etc I have tried to add a mode or band or something each year to my operating I have not made it (was just too busy moving and building) but I try you just want to sit back and let "Them" carry the freight There's that "carry the freight" line again. Still not applicable, but at least you spelled "freight" right this time. - The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands or even having no mode subbands at all. As I was saying in another thread...! been around as long as I have been likely longer No doubt. Steve, K4YZ |
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#8
July 22nd 05, 06:11 PM
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K4YZ wrote: an_old_friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Observations: - Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18 proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely eliminate it. Amazing, isn't it? why that is the way the system is set up why are you amazed it is being followed It's not being followed if the public says "A" and the government does "B". yes it is the public is allowed coment, not control the system as I understand it at one time did not even allow coment by the public this is not a democratic govt but a republican one They ask for public opinion then say "We'll do what we want anyway..." they have to ask for it so they do you can't make listen to it Sure you can. not realy you can try gorw up and learn how the world works Why don't you, Deviant Boy? I have. I know how it works. you don't - There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to all of them. They said it in 98...They want to reduce all administrative burden to an absolute minimum... The fewer regulations there are on the books, the less enforcement they have to do. I am surprised they haven't tried to "outsource" their enforcement duties. I do hear rumous they have looked into that Uh huh. Rumors. even in agreeing with you can't be polite Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. - The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code testing. Predictions: - There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will just dump Element 1 and make no other changes. I'm still holding out for 5WPM for Extra, but prudence says you're right. a few sign of light stevie - There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses. But not long term growth. There never has been, there never will be. Reducing testing, either the number of written test or the 13/20WPM Code tests, has not done a thing to move the service forward. esp with attitudes like your it will be hard It's not MY attitude that needs to be dealt with, Markie. it certainly is as you diatribe against Kim clearly shows It's the attitudes of the people who keep making these assinine assertions about how this change or that change is going to be the salvation of the Amateur Radio service. Nobody is saying that only the oponents of change are saying someone is saying it It will certainly help but you may yet manage to help kill the ars stevie I hope you will then be happy but I doubt it you likely will find some way in your head of blaming me personaly The FCC has said it so many times now they even believe thier own rhetoric and repeat it in this NPRM. You saying the FCC was lying when it said it found no reason for code testing besides the treaty. It found none, none have been advanced that meet the laugh test, and now they are lowing the boom on your egomania - The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....For a while there will be...All those new "Generals" will plop down some bucks on HF stations, work some DX, then go back to whining about how tough it is to get to Extra. yea right It happened with "Novice Enhancement" wouldn't know, but I doubt it It happened with the introduction of the NCT. not likely, it almost can't have It happened with the last Restructuring round. nope I was there What makes Deviant Markie even the least bit doubtful that it won't happen THIS time? looking at reality grow up and drink your sour grapes What sour grapes? yours the sour grapes you ares pilling all over the group It happened. Three times. I know better on at least one of those case - There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought by the new folks. They've had their chance since 1991 to do that if they wanted. if they wanted? If they wanted, Markie. right you are lazy and let other do your work for you W H E R E are all the "engineering types that the NCT was supposed to bring into Amateur Radio? Stevie can't coment on the claims made by those before NCT but I have seen your (lack of) track record for honesty and do not accept your accessment beside it is clear you did not do YOUR part in bring that about what have you done to advance the radio in your time as a ham A lot more than you, Markie. Starting with being an Elmer and a VE. Add to that ARES, MARS, etc etc etc realy lets see I am not aloowed to be a VE done ares stuff, not done anything with Mars. I elmer (even elmer generals and extras in digital modes) but all that is operating. what have you done to advance radio? I have tried to add a mode or band or something each year to my operating I have not made it (was just too busy moving and building) but I try you just want to sit back and let "Them" carry the freight There's that "carry the freight" line again. yes becuase it is true you want everyone else to work while you rest on your laurels Still not applicable, but at least you spelled "freight" right this time. yep it is you still have not advanced any occasion when you have even tried something new on the air - The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands or even having no mode subbands at all. As I was saying in another thread...! been around as long as I have been likely longer No doubt. Steve, K4YZ |
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#9
July 22nd 05, 06:18 PM
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Can you blame them for not wanting comment.
Bet that only fills their mailbox with those expecting special treatment, action for historical reasons, and a demand for them to be observant of the writers wants and desires! John "an_old_friend" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: an_old_friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Observations: - Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18 proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely eliminate it. Amazing, isn't it? why that is the way the system is set up why are you amazed it is being followed It's not being followed if the public says "A" and the government does "B". yes it is the public is allowed coment, not control the system as I understand it at one time did not even allow coment by the public this is not a democratic govt but a republican one They ask for public opinion then say "We'll do what we want anyway..." they have to ask for it so they do you can't make listen to it Sure you can. not realy you can try gorw up and learn how the world works Why don't you, Deviant Boy? I have. I know how it works. you don't - There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to all of them. They said it in 98...They want to reduce all administrative burden to an absolute minimum... The fewer regulations there are on the books, the less enforcement they have to do. I am surprised they haven't tried to "outsource" their enforcement duties. I do hear rumous they have looked into that Uh huh. Rumors. even in agreeing with you can't be polite Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. - The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code testing. Predictions: - There will be a lot of debate and commentary. But in the end FCC will just dump Element 1 and make no other changes. I'm still holding out for 5WPM for Extra, but prudence says you're right. a few sign of light stevie - There will be a lot of upgrades and a short-term peak in licenses. But not long term growth. There never has been, there never will be. Reducing testing, either the number of written test or the 13/20WPM Code tests, has not done a thing to move the service forward. esp with attitudes like your it will be hard It's not MY attitude that needs to be dealt with, Markie. it certainly is as you diatribe against Kim clearly shows It's the attitudes of the people who keep making these assinine assertions about how this change or that change is going to be the salvation of the Amateur Radio service. Nobody is saying that only the oponents of change are saying someone is saying it It will certainly help but you may yet manage to help kill the ars stevie I hope you will then be happy but I doubt it you likely will find some way in your head of blaming me personaly The FCC has said it so many times now they even believe thier own rhetoric and repeat it in this NPRM. You saying the FCC was lying when it said it found no reason for code testing besides the treaty. It found none, none have been advanced that meet the laugh test, and now they are lowing the boom on your egomania - The HF/MF bands will not be overrun with more activity. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....For a while there will be...All those new "Generals" will plop down some bucks on HF stations, work some DX, then go back to whining about how tough it is to get to Extra. yea right It happened with "Novice Enhancement" wouldn't know, but I doubt it It happened with the introduction of the NCT. not likely, it almost can't have It happened with the last Restructuring round. nope I was there What makes Deviant Markie even the least bit doubtful that it won't happen THIS time? looking at reality grow up and drink your sour grapes What sour grapes? yours the sour grapes you ares pilling all over the group It happened. Three times. I know better on at least one of those case - There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought by the new folks. They've had their chance since 1991 to do that if they wanted. if they wanted? If they wanted, Markie. right you are lazy and let other do your work for you W H E R E are all the "engineering types that the NCT was supposed to bring into Amateur Radio? Stevie can't coment on the claims made by those before NCT but I have seen your (lack of) track record for honesty and do not accept your accessment beside it is clear you did not do YOUR part in bring that about what have you done to advance the radio in your time as a ham A lot more than you, Markie. Starting with being an Elmer and a VE. Add to that ARES, MARS, etc etc etc realy lets see I am not aloowed to be a VE done ares stuff, not done anything with Mars. I elmer (even elmer generals and extras in digital modes) but all that is operating. what have you done to advance radio? I have tried to add a mode or band or something each year to my operating I have not made it (was just too busy moving and building) but I try you just want to sit back and let "Them" carry the freight There's that "carry the freight" line again. yes becuase it is true you want everyone else to work while you rest on your laurels Still not applicable, but at least you spelled "freight" right this time. yep it is you still have not advanced any occasion when you have even tried something new on the air - The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands or even having no mode subbands at all. As I was saying in another thread...! been around as long as I have been likely longer No doubt. Steve, K4YZ |
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#10
July 22nd 05, 07:05 PM
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From: Michael Coslo on Jul 22, 11:03 am
wrote: Observations: - Although the majority of individuals who commented on the 18 proposals supported code testing, FCC proposes to completely eliminate it. That "observation" is ERRONEOUS unless the statistics work can be presented to "prove" that the "majority 'supported' code testing." - There were a lot of ideas in the 18 proposals other than the code test. FCC simply denied all suggestions for change *except* dumping Element 1. Free upgrades for Advanceds and Novices? New entry level classes? More HF bandspace/modes for Novices and Tech Pluses? "No" to all of them. - The changes of 2000 brought a lot of upgrades and some short-term growth, but now the number of individuals with unexpired US ham licenses is almost 10,000 below what it was in May of 2000. Nor has there been any sort of "techno-revolution" from the reductions in code testing. Again, an ERRONEOUS observation based on rather public data websites showing that the peak of licensee numbers happened in July of 2003...and the drop to present-day numbers was only TWO-THIRDS of that "10,000." Predictions: - There will not be a "revolution" in technology used by hams brought by the new folks. No, certainly not brought about by the new folks - as a group. But I don't doubt that some of the new folks may very well involved. What are you saying in that last sentence? Since when has "a group" brought about sudden changes (a "revolution")? Nearly ALL technical innovation in amateur radio has been brought on by INDIVIDUALS or individual corporations. - The focus will shift to a debate about widening the 'phone subbands or even having no mode subbands at all. Yawn! That won't be anywhere near as much fun as the Element 1 debate! TS One more thing that will happen, and I hope it doesn't. I anticipate a bit of class warfare, as (some of) the code tested try to establish superiority over the great unwashed who enter the ARS. Great leaping whatzits! These Mighty Macho Morsemen have been making "superiority" noises over others for DECADES! The "class warfare" stuff was what created the old Byzantine CLASS SYSTEM in U.S. ham radio!!! Quite frankly, that will make those so called elite a worse problem than the newbies coming into the service. What you mean NOW, kimosabe? Try 40 to 20 years before now. Seen it. Part of the reason I never bothered with an amateur radio license was the attitudes of the vocal yokels and their "authorized by the federal government" importance and "superiority." Now will be a time for Elmering and openness. I've sat and listened to enough grumbling about Nickel Extras such as myself, right to my face, from OT's who haven't done a thing for the service for years, talk about how "Any idiot can become a Ham now." This happens more often than it should. Total agreement with you on that! I intend to provide as much help to the newcomers as possible, instead of grousing about the "good old days", and steely eyed F.C.C testing agents. :-) That I support Element 1 testing is of no consequence to the new people. I suggest that the Ham who wants to be thought of as superior establish that superiority by example, not by grousing or ridiculing the new folks. Foster the idea that good manners and technical acumen is a good thing. Will you nominate K4YZ to lead that group? :-) :-) :-) Just some thoughts..... ...and mine, SUPPORTING the elimination of the morse code test. bit bit |
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