On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:30:40 -0400, Leo wrote:

On 29 Jul 2005 19:25:49 -0700, "b.b." wrote:


wrote:
KØHB wrote:
While they removed the requirement for a Morse exam, note that they increased
the written examination passing score for the Basic License. FCC could learn
something from these guys.

Yep

What's interesting too is that new Basics can access HF two ways:

1) Pass the written with 80% or more right

2) Pass the written with less than 80% right *and* pass the Morse Code
test.

IIRC, the basic pass level is 60% (!)

Sounds a little like my old "Chinese Menu" idea.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim, are you advocating that 60% be the necessary score?

I don't think he is, Brian - Jim was surprised when I mentioned that
the pass mark was only 60% a while back. This has been fixed now - it
has been raised to 70%, effective today!

73, Leo


Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification now would
have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

"amateur" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:30:40 -0400, Leo wrote:

On 29 Jul 2005 19:25:49 -0700, "b.b." wrote:


wrote:
KØHB wrote:
While they removed the requirement for a Morse exam, note that they
increased
the written examination passing score for the Basic License. FCC
could learn
something from these guys.

Yep

What's interesting too is that new Basics can access HF two ways:

1) Pass the written with 80% or more right

2) Pass the written with less than 80% right *and* pass the Morse Code
test.

IIRC, the basic pass level is 60% (!)

Sounds a little like my old "Chinese Menu" idea.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim, are you advocating that 60% be the necessary score?

I don't think he is, Brian - Jim was surprised when I mentioned that
the pass mark was only 60% a while back. This has been fixed now - it
has been raised to 70%, effective today!

73, Leo


Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification now would
have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

I believe so. I saw something on that very thing somewhere on the internet
but can't remember where. Or alternatively, they can still take the Morse
test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"amateur" wrote

Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification
now would have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

Not in most cases.

As I read it, you are authorized HF access as of today, without further testing,
if...

1) ...you got your Basic certificate before April 2, 2002.
2) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 AND at a score
of 80% or higher.
3) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 at a score lower
than 80% AND pass a 5WPM Morse exam

Perhaps Leo can confirm (or correct) my understanding.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" ) writes:
"amateur" wrote

Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification
now would have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

Not in most cases.

As I read it, you are authorized HF access as of today, without further testing,
if...

1) ...you got your Basic certificate before April 2, 2002.
2) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 AND at a score
of 80% or higher.
3) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 at a score lower
than 80% AND pass a 5WPM Morse exam

If you have the advanced license, that also gives you HF privileges with this
new change.

The retaking the test is only if someone didn't receive the 80% pass mark but
want HF and fits none of the above four possibilities.

The RAC bulletin reads like only if you were licensed before April 2, 2002
that you automatically get HF privileges. But on reading the Canadian
Gazette entry on this,
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html
it seems less clearcut.

They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they have acquired over this period of time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for at
least three years will automatically receive authority to operate in
the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that three years of
experience will have allowed the amateur to acquire sufficient
experience to operate proficiently in the HF bands. Amateurs who
received their Basic Certificate within the three year interval prior
to the date of the new standards will be required to prove that they
had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

Michael VE2BVW

Michael Black wrote:
"K=D8HB" ) writes:
"amateur" wrote

Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification
now would have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

Not in most cases.

As I read it, you are authorized HF access as of today, without further=
testing,
if...

1) ...you got your Basic certificate before April 2, 2002.
2) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 AND at =
a score
of 80% or higher.
3) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 at a sc=
ore lower
than 80% AND pass a 5WPM Morse exam

If you have the advanced license, that also gives you HF privileges with =
this
new change.

The retaking the test is only if someone didn't receive the 80% pass mark=
but
want HF and fits none of the above four possibilities.

The RAC bulletin reads like only if you were licensed before April 2, 2002
that you automatically get HF privileges. But on reading the Canadian
Gazette entry on this,
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html
it seems less clearcut.

break
They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they have acquired over this period of time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for at
least three years will automatically receive authority to operate in
the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that three years of
experience will have allowed the amateur to acquire sufficient
experience to operate proficiently in the HF bands. Amateurs who
received their Basic Certificate within the three year interval prior
to the date of the new standards will be required to prove that they
had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

they mesh okesp if you igamine that when it was written it may have
been intended to be posted earier

A date certain and then a period of time covers the new folks over time
=20
Michael VE2BVW

On 30 Jul 2005 15:04:40 GMT, (Michael Black)
wrote:

They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they have acquired over this period of time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for at
least three years will automatically receive authority to operate in
the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that three years of
experience will have allowed the amateur to acquire sufficient
experience to operate proficiently in the HF bands. Amateurs who
received their Basic Certificate within the three year interval prior
to the date of the new standards will be required to prove that they
had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

I agree that the sentence could be interpreted to be a three year
waiting period. That's certainly how I would read it too.

However when I review the Radiocommunication Information Circular
RIC-3 - Information on the Amateur Radio Service as at
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf01008e.html
it is quite clear.

1.3 General Criteria for Operation on HF Bands
Privileges granted to amateurs with an existing authorization will be
based on the following criteria:
(1) All Amateurs holding Basic and Advanced Qualifications will be
allowed to operate on the HF bands below 30 MHz.
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate on the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they will have acquired over this period of time.
(3) Amateurs certified after April 1, 2002, who have demonstrated a
superior knowledge of operational, technical and regulatory
requirements by achieving a mark on the Basic examination of 80% or
above will be allowed to operate on the HF bands below 30 MHz.

Nothing there about getting automatic access to HF after three years
of getting your Basic license.

Tony

Tony VE6MVP ) writes:


Nothing there about getting automatic access to HF after three years
of getting your Basic license.

Tony

It's more a puzzler than anything else. In effect they are saying
anyone who's been licensed for three years at this point has experience,
while in the future 3 years experience is not sufficient.

It seems odd that if they feel a need to grandfather some, it's not
a blanket grandfathering at the time the new rules go into effect.
But given that they do specify a date, that would seem to be the case.


Of course, if this was the old days, they'd have to bring their log
in to show that they had a good three years of experience, rather
than just sitting on the license. Who can forget the old endorsement
for the amateur license that gave some limited HF phone, but you had
to prove that you had been active on HF CW in that time period.

I'm just really curious why they picked three years and not one.
The experience angle seems more to justify a partial grandfathering
than that experience can be generally traded in for HF priviliges.

Michael VE2BVW

On 31 Jul 2005 05:26:40 GMT, (Michael Black)
wrote:

It's more a puzzler than anything else. In effect they are saying
anyone who's been licensed for three years at this point has experience,
while in the future 3 years experience is not sufficient.

It seems odd that if they feel a need to grandfather some, it's not
a blanket grandfathering at the time the new rules go into effect.
But given that they do specify a date, that would seem to be the case.

shrug I agree with you.

Of course, if this was the old days, they'd have to bring their log
in to show that they had a good three years of experience, rather
than just sitting on the license. Who can forget the old endorsement
for the amateur license that gave some limited HF phone, but you had
to prove that you had been active on HF CW in that time period.

I've only been a ham since November 2004 so I can't speak for the good
old days.

But it would've made sense to me to get an examiner to sign off that
you have some experience such as knowing how to use the PTT button,
the DTMF on your keypad, participate in some nets without being
disruptive and being able to program memories into your radio.

Somewhat seriously though I can see a practical exam being somewhat
useful here.

Tony

(Michael Black) wrote in
:


"KØHB" ) writes:
"amateur" wrote

Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification now would
have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

Not in most cases.

As I read it, you are authorized HF access as of today, without
further testing, if...

1) ...you got your Basic certificate before April 2, 2002.
2) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 AND at
a score of 80% or higher.
3) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 at a
score lower than 80% AND pass a 5WPM Morse exam

If you have the advanced license, that also gives you HF privileges
with this new change.

The retaking the test is only if someone didn't receive the 80% pass
mark but want HF and fits none of the above four possibilities.

The RAC bulletin reads like only if you were licensed before April 2,
2002 that you automatically get HF privileges. But on reading the
Canadian Gazette entry on this,
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter...n/sf08435e.htm
l
it seems less clearcut.

They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed
to operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the
experience and knowledge they have acquired over this period of
time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for
at least three years will automatically receive authority to
operate in the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that
three years of experience will have allowed the amateur to
acquire sufficient experience to operate proficiently in the
HF bands. Amateurs who received their Basic Certificate within the
three year interval prior to the date of the new standards will be
required to prove that they had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

Michael VE2BVW



As I understand it, the original proposal required an Advanced or 80% in
the Basic, but records of pass marks don't go back all that far, hence the
cut off date to avoid unfairness to anyone who can't find out their pass
mark. Then it sounds like they tacked on the three year clause which makes
that date irrelevant!

Vive la Canada!

73 de Alun, G8VUK, N3KIP